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  1. #1
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    Default 5th wheel caravans,

    Why are 5th wheel caravans/ trailers not as popular as abroad? What are the drawbacks? Years (decades) ago a person could get/ find them for sale but they have become chickens teeth. I would presume the current licence issues would perhaps be a turnoff, but they seem to have disappeared long before the licence saga, why?

    Cost?

    Size?

    Oh !!!! And apologies that this is not gardening, politics, cooking, brewing etc related
    Alan


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  3. #2
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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    The oemph required to tow them was not available in SA's LDV family.

    Even the Amarok is too light (lees lig in die broek).

    And off course the trailer gvm vs tow tare issues.
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  4. #3
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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    Yes, can agree that previously we didn't have the oomph in our bakkies, but is it still applicable? The torque and kw of vehicles nowadays are considerably higher, perhaps also being double cab more family suited?

    There are also quite a few mini/ midi trucks that come in double cab configuration which again could make it viable??

    Is a 5th wheel configuration also perhaps not more stable? Methinks I need to google weight specs of 5th wheel RV's to compare to our bigger caravans available here
    Alan


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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    All the guys I watch on YouTube with 5th wheels seem to tow with F450. We don't have anything that size do we?

    And they seem to have special hitches that I don't think I've ever seen here.

    Maybe it's a cost thing?

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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    Kan met F250 ook die 5th wheel mee trek.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emmie L View Post
    All the guys I watch on YouTube with 5th wheels seem to tow with F450. We don't have anything that size do we?

    And they seem to have special hitches that I don't think I've ever seen here.

    Maybe it's a cost thing?

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  8. #6
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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    Ek ken n ou wat n dubbel as goose neck horse box slerp met sybox shape mahindra bolero dc.

    Remme moet elektries of vakuum wees, want mens het nie inloop op n gooseneck nie.

    Ek nie seker hoe lisensie en regulasies werk met gooseneck nie.


    Mens sien ook nie meer juis die nissan 1 tonners waarvan bak afgegooi is en 5th wheel en leenwa sleep nie. Dink hulle het ook vakuum remme gehad.

    Ek sal noggal hou van n gooseneck platbak kar sleepwa wat op my patrol bakkies kan haak.
    Vrywaring: Niks wat ek hier kwyt raak moet hoegenaamd as feite beskou word nie.

  9. #7
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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    Nie baie hp nodig...


    https://youtu.be/SpwH9WeVEfU
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  11. #8
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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    We don't have the regulations to support the bigger "caravans" in South Africa. Even the big luxury off road Australian style caravans don't make it here because you need a special tow vehicle[1] or you need to move up to an EC1 licence...

    There are relaxed rules for RVs (US class C type vehicles) in South Africa, but it doesn't apply to a regular tow vehicle.

    Sizing the tow vehicle for a 5th wheel or travel trailer in the US is still a bit of an art as much as science.


    1. Johan in post #2 has done it...
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  12. #9
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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    Ek dink ek moet vir my n net n frame met dubbel aste, ligte, inloop remme laat bou deur sleepwa vervaardiger. Met gvm van 2 ton.
    Sodat enige van my patrols of v9x dit mag sleep. En dan n custum camper bo op dit bou wat kan los bout en op stands kan ďafklimĒ van sleepwa frame.
    Vrywaring: Niks wat ek hier kwyt raak moet hoegenaamd as feite beskou word nie.

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  14. #10
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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    Name:  Royal-Navy-Trailer-nearside-front-view-1920x1080.jpg
Views: 1091
Size:  350.2 KB
    It's nice when you are spending taxpayer money....
    https://www.neatvehicles.com/our-pro...fifth-wheeler/
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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    At least their books balance and you can see on what it is spend. You can sell that in 5 years for a profit.

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  17. #12
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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcR View Post
    We don't have the regulations to support the bigger "caravans" in South Africa. Even the big luxury off road Australian style caravans don't make it here because you need a special tow vehicle[1] or you need to move up to an EC1 licence...

    There are relaxed rules for RVs (US class C type vehicles) in South Africa, but it doesn't apply to a regular tow vehicle.

    Sizing the tow vehicle for a 5th wheel or travel trailer in the US is still a bit of an art as much as science.


    1. Johan in post #2 has done it...
    What is classed as a "bigger" caravan. There are numerous caravans between 8 and 9 meters overall length on sale in South Africa. Now if a person had to "load" a portion of this over a bak, then the overall length of the vehicle is actually shorter. GVM, tare , etc would in my mind be much of a muchness.

    Reenen, ek laaik daai idee van jou, en glo dat so iets kan werk.

    My personal feeling is that our authorities don't know how to interpret the laws regarding these types of trailers, and therefore look to make a mountain out of a molehill
    Alan


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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Eveleigh View Post
    What is classed as a "bigger" caravan. There are numerous caravans between 8 and 9 meters overall length on sale in South Africa. Now if a person had to "load" a portion of this over a bak, then the overall length of the vehicle is actually shorter. GVM, tare , etc would in my mind be much of a muchness.

    Reenen, ek laaik daai idee van jou, en glo dat so iets kan werk.

    My personal feeling is that our authorities don't know how to interpret the laws regarding these types of trailers, and therefore look to make a mountain out of a molehill
    The length limit for any type of rig on SA roads is 22m. Beyond that requires an abnormal permit.
    So, length is not an issue on this subject.
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  20. #14
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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    I think Reenen hit the nail on the head with gooseneck trailers needing to be on electric or air brakes.

  21. #15
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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    Quote Originally Posted by JohanMaree View Post
    The length limit for any type of rig on SA roads is 22m. Beyond that requires an abnormal permit.
    So, length is not an issue on this subject.
    Agree totally on the length issue, but then what is the actual issue pertaining to towing a fifth wheel trailer/ caravan.


    Taken from Wikipedia...

    Code Vehicle classes Includes
    Motorcycles


    A1 Motorcycles with an engine capacity of 125 cubic centimetres or less


    A Motorcycles with an engine capacity greater than 125 cc Includes Code A1
    Light motor vehicles
    B Vehicles (except motorcycles) with tare weight of 3,500 kilograms or less; and minibuses, buses and goods vehicles with gross vehicle mass (GVM) of 3,500 kg or less. A trailer with GVM of 750 kg or less may be attached.


    EB Articulated vehicles with gross combination mass (GCM) of 3,500 kg or less; and vehicles allowed by Code B but with a trailer with GVM greater than 750 kg. Includes Code B
    Heavy motor vehicles
    C1 In South Africa, driving licences are issued with various codes that indicate the types of vehicle that may be driven with that licence. To transport fare-paying passengers or tourists for a fee, you must have a professional driving permit (PrDP). For example, a Code EC1 licence includes codes B, EB and C1. Includes Code B
    C Buses and goods vehicles with GVM greater than 16,000 kg. A trailer with GVM of 750 kg or less may be attached. Codes B and C1
    EC1 Articulated vehicles with GCM between 3,500 kg and 16,000 kg; and vehicles allowed by Code C1 but with a trailer with GVM greater than 750 kg. Includes Codes B, EB and C1
    EC Articulated vehicles with GCM greater than 18,000 kg; and vehicles allowed by Code C but with a trailer with GVM greater than 750 kg. Includes Codes B, EB, C1, C and EC1




    According to the above, as long as I stay under a GCM of 3500 then my EB licence would cover it.

    As stated previously, my thought is that the problem lies in the interpretation of the above. I was pulled over recently while towing a car trailer (while empty) with a tare of less than 750 kg and was informed that I needed a EC1 licence.
    Last edited by Alan Eveleigh; 2021/05/31 at 09:57 AM.
    Alan


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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    The steel suppliers (Macsteel) around here still run the bakkies with a 5th wheel, so must be legal.

  23. #17
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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Eveleigh View Post
    Agree totally on the length issue, but then what is the actual issue pertaining to towing a fifth wheel trailer/ caravan.


    Taken from Wikipedia...

    Code Vehicle classes Includes
    Motorcycles


    A1 Motorcycles with an engine capacity of 125 cubic centimetres or less


    A Motorcycles with an engine capacity greater than 125 cc Includes Code A1
    Light motor vehicles
    B Vehicles (except motorcycles) with tare weight of 3,500 kilograms or less; and minibuses, buses and goods vehicles with gross vehicle mass (GVM) of 3,500 kg or less. A trailer with GVM of 750 kg or less may be attached.


    EB Articulated vehicles with gross combination mass (GCM) of 3,500 kg or less; and vehicles allowed by Code B but with a trailer with GVM greater than 750 kg. Includes Code B
    Heavy motor vehicles
    C1 In South Africa, driving licences are issued with various codes that indicate the types of vehicle that may be driven with that licence. To transport fare-paying passengers or tourists for a fee, you must have a professional driving permit (PrDP). For example, a Code EC1 licence includes codes B, EB and C1. Includes Code B
    C Buses and goods vehicles with GVM greater than 16,000 kg. A trailer with GVM of 750 kg or less may be attached. Codes B and C1
    EC1 Articulated vehicles with GCM between 3,500 kg and 16,000 kg; and vehicles allowed by Code C1 but with a trailer with GVM greater than 750 kg. Includes Codes B, EB and C1
    EC Articulated vehicles with GCM greater than 18,000 kg; and vehicles allowed by Code C but with a trailer with GVM greater than 750 kg. Includes Codes B, EB, C1, C and EC1




    According to the above, as long as I stay under a GCM of 3500 then my EB licence would cover it.

    As stated previously, my thought is that the problem lies in the interpretation of the above. I was pulled over recently while towing a car trailer (while empty) with a tare of less than 750 kg and was informed that I needed a EC1 licence.
    Towing the trailer, the law donít care if the trailer is loaded or unloaded. They donít look at the tarra of trailer, but the gvm of trailer.
    Vrywaring: Niks wat ek hier kwyt raak moet hoegenaamd as feite beskou word nie.

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  25. #18
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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Eveleigh View Post
    Agree totally on the length issue, but then what is the actual issue pertaining to towing a fifth wheel trailer/ caravan.

    Taken from Wikipedia...

    Code Vehicle classes Includes
    Motorcycles

    A1 Motorcycles with an engine capacity of 125 cubic centimetres or less

    A Motorcycles with an engine capacity greater than 125 cc Includes Code A1
    Light motor vehicles
    B Vehicles (except motorcycles) with tare weight of 3,500 kilograms or less; and minibuses, buses and goods vehicles with gross vehicle mass (GVM) of 3,500 kg or less. A trailer with GVM of 750 kg or less may be attached.
    EB Articulated vehicles with gross combination mass (GCM) of 3,500 kg or less; and vehicles allowed by Code B but with a trailer with GVM greater than 750 kg. Includes Code B
    Heavy motor vehicles

    C1 In South Africa, driving licences are issued with various codes that indicate the types of vehicle that may be driven with that licence. To transport fare-paying passengers or tourists for a fee, you must have a professional driving permit (PrDP). For example, a Code EC1 licence includes codes B, EB and C1. Includes Code B
    C Buses and goods vehicles with GVM greater than 16,000 kg. A trailer with GVM of 750 kg or less may be attached. Codes B and C1
    EC1 Articulated vehicles with GCM between 3,500 kg and 16,000 kg; and vehicles allowed by Code C1 but with a trailer with GVM greater than 750 kg. Includes Codes B, EB and C1
    EC Articulated vehicles with GCM greater than 18,000 kg; and vehicles allowed by Code C but with a trailer with GVM greater than 750 kg. Includes Codes B, EB, C1, C and EC1

    According to the above, as long as I stay under a GCM of 3500 then my EB licence would cover it.

    As stated previously, my thought is that the problem lies in the interpretation of the above. I was pulled over recently while towing a car trailer (while empty) with a tare of less than 750 kg and was informed that I needed a EC1 licence.
    There is an additional stipulation on the EB licence. The GVM of the "braked" trailer must be less than the TARE of the tow vehicle, irrespective of the there being a load or empty.

    Irrelevant here, but for unbraked trailers, the trailer GVM must be less than half of the TARE of the tow vehicle.

    That means you need a tow vehicle with a TARE greater than the trailer GVM and that gets expensive in an SUV and not practical (or possible) with a pickup.
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  26. #19
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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    Marc, the trailer GVM only have to be less than tow vehicle TARE if you only have run-in brakes. With proper service brakes (pneumatic, hydraulic or electric operated from cab and foot pedal) the trailer GVM may exceed tow vehicle TARE up to tow vehicle limit (e.g. many LR products may tow up to 3500kg).
    Last edited by Mike N; 2021/05/31 at 01:45 PM.
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  27. #20
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    Default Re: 5th wheel caravans,

    Cost. Such a rig would cost more than a truck tractor.

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