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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Ford very finnicky over petrol - 2nd engine replacement imminent.

    Quote Originally Posted by JS-V8 View Post
    And yet Porsche can sell a pukka 911 Turbo S here in this old SA with its substandard fuel?
    And I can run the Hummer on a range of petrol grades as well as ethanol and have a lot of fun per ton
    Last edited by Estee; 2021/05/10 at 04:33 PM.
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  3. #42
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    Default Re: Ford very finnicky over petrol - 2nd engine replacement imminent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Koebelwagen View Post
    Yes and no, the hottest an engine will run is at the stoichiometric ratio. On either side of this the engine will run cooler. I have watched real time AFR on a turbocharged VW engine and the management runs very lean ratios under low load cruising upwards of 1:28 under some conditions.

    What Anton described in terms of tuning is exactly what I aim for on the beetle. For high performance application I aim for 1:12.7-13.5 AFR from the main circuit of the carburettors at WOT under load whilst cruising in fourth gear under 2500RPM i.e. the idle circuit you save a lot of fuel if you can tune it to run at 1:18 or even 1:20 AFR (Not always practically possible using traditional distributor ignition hence why I am happy if the idle circuit runs at 1:16 as I want performance more than fuel economy in this vehicle, you will see why I say this below) . What I absolutely don't want is to run a 1:14.7 AFR.

    Running lean however means you have to keep an eye on timing advance as pre-ignition kills an engine in no time, think of it as hitting the top of the piston with a hammer every time it happens. Sooner or later something is going to break like piston skirts and/ or rings. In modern engines there is a knock sensor that will retard ignition timing when pre-ignition occurs, however this is a reactive device i.e. the engine has to experience pre-ignition knock for the ECU to know it must retard timing, so if the ignition map in your vehicle is too aggressive for the fuel you are able to get then a cycle of pre-ignition knock followed by a retardation of timing followed by an advance of timing followed by a knock followed by a retardation of timing starts. Repeat this cycle hundreds if not thousands of times and ultimately damage will occur.

    In simple terms there are three ways to address the above. Firstly you can limit the amount of total ignition timing advance, secondly you can enrich the air fuel mixture and thirdly you can boost the octane level of the fuel you use.
    Fascinating thank you!
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  4. #43
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    Default Re: Ford very finnicky over petrol - 2nd engine replacement imminent.

    Ja nee, there is a reason I will not ever by a Ford ecoboost engined vehicle.

  5. #44
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    Default Re: Ford very finnicky over petrol - 2nd engine replacement imminent.

    Quote Originally Posted by JS-V8 View Post
    And yet Porsche can sell a pukka 911 Turbo S here in this old SA with its substandard fuel?
    I'm no engineer, but many performance cars are over designed and lots of r&d goes into it, and publishing performance figures which allow it to operate at the same level in different regions.

    they run relatively conservative tunes, which is why many of the aftermarket tuning companies can extract many extra ponies from the engine with a simple remap.

    the smaller 3 cylinder engines, like in the ST is already in a high state of tune, and pushing the limits of "standard" fuels, hence me stating that it is not being imported due to the substandard fuel in SA.

  6. #45
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    Default Re: Ford very finnicky over petrol - 2nd engine replacement imminent.

    Two things to consider is the ECO-BOOST engines are of clean burning design to optimize fuel efficiency. Thus fuel mixtures more on the lean side. Also to take into account is altitude.

    Reading the recall in post one Ford states low Speed pre-ignition.

    Some useless facts around the 1.0 Ecoboost
    Compression ratio at 10:1
    Boost at 1.6 bar or 24psi

    It is a given that at high altitude with the above specs fuel octane and timing becomes critical.

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  8. #46
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    Default Re: Ford very finnicky over petrol - 2nd engine replacement imminent.

    I think we are getting to a point of complexity with automotive systems that will echo the behaviour of societies:


    Societies are problem-solving collectives that grow in
    complexity in order to overcome new issues. However, the returns from complexity eventually reach a point of diminishing returns. After this point, collapse will eventually ensue.
    Estee = S T = Sean Towlson

    Total 4x4 Novice with no experience whats-so-ever

    ''Nothing makes the Earth seem so spacious as to have friends at a distance; they make the latitudes and longitudes''. H.D. Thoreau.

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  10. #47
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    Default Re: Ford very finnicky over petrol - 2nd engine replacement imminent.

    Strange then that we had / have 3 Fiestas with the 1.0l Ecoboost engine with no problems at all and on one of them the ECU was re-mapped.


    Oh, we made sure we only used 95 octane fuel.
    Last edited by Predator; 2021/05/13 at 08:14 AM.
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  12. #48
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    Default Re: Ford very finnicky over petrol - 2nd engine replacement imminent.

    Quote Originally Posted by johann21 View Post
    The first engine failure was due to the broken piston, as can be seen in the photo attached above. What caused this is still uncertain. I've asked the particular Ford dealership about this but have not had any feedback.

    The fuel sample from the pump has been collected and I should have the results in about 8 working days, so probably 2 weeks or so....

    The fuel sample tested by Ford passed the "quality" tests. i.e. the fuel is up to local spec. Maybe I should insist they do further tests to determine if the fuel was contaminated, as they claim?
    It is really important to register any concerns with Ford Customer Care to get a case number. If the problem is not resolved by the dealer, Ford uses this case number to track the status and elevate it to the technical experts. The contact details are as follows: e-mail: [email protected] and phone number 0860 011 022

  13. #49
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    Default Re: Ford very finnicky over petrol - 2nd engine replacement imminent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Predator View Post
    Strange then that we had / have 3 Fiestas with the 1.0l Ecoboost engine with no problems at all and on one of them the ECU was re-mapped.


    Oh, we made sure we only used 95 octane fuel.
    You may have been lucky in that all three yours was built on a Monday.

    Judging by the above comments, the OP may have gotten a lemon as well as many other people. Was your remap done by Ford themselves as was the case with the OP?
    Last edited by Die SwartKat; 2021/05/17 at 11:04 AM.
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  14. #50
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    Default Re: Ford very finnicky over petrol - 2nd engine replacement imminent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bush Babe View Post
    It is really important to register any concerns with Ford Customer Care to get a case number. If the problem is not resolved by the dealer, Ford uses this case number to track the status and elevate it to the technical experts. The contact details are as follows: e-mail: [email protected] and phone number 0860 011 022
    Thank you. Yes, I also contacted Ford Customer Care even before the last feedback that I received from the Ford dealership.

  15. #51
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    Default Re: Ford very finnicky over petrol - 2nd engine replacement imminent.

    You all realize what the acronym FORD stands for ?

    Hat, coat, door
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  17. #52
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    Default Re: Ford very finnicky over petrol - 2nd engine replacement imminent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gustav Jimny View Post
    You all realize what the acronym FORD stands for ?

    Hat, coat, door
    I know of 2.

    Forever On Repair Duty

    Found On Rubbish Dump
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  19. #53
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    Default Re: Ford very finnicky over petrol - 2nd engine replacement imminent.

    Quote Originally Posted by johann21 View Post
    2020 Ford EcoSport 1.0 EcoBoost Titanium 6AT

    Hi everyone,

    Looking for some thoughts/advice on an issue I’m currently experiencing with the abovementioned vehicle.

    Herewith the facts as they occurred from purchasing the vehicle.


    • January 2020 – Bought a new Ford EcoSport from a Ford dealership in Pretoria.



    • June 2020 – We were notified by Ford of a recall on the vehicle. Our records indicate that you own vehicle VIN: WF01XXERK1KS68187 which is the subject of the product recall: 20B10 - EcoSport 1.0L EcoBoost Low Speed Pre-Ignition. Certain 2018-2020 Ford EcoSport vehicles built in Craiova Plant (Romania) may be susceptible to low speed pre-ignition, due to local fuel quality. This could result in an engine misfire, and a loss of power may be experienced by the customer. In some instances, the vehicle might present difficulty starting - or in severe cases not start at all. NB: FMCSA has authorised your Ford Dealer to update the Powertrain Control Module. Certain vehicles may also require the addition of Fuel Injector Cleaner to the fuel tank. This service will be completed free of charge (parts and labour) under the terms of this program.”



    • Shortly after we were notified of the recall we took the vehicle to our closest Ford dealership to have the necessary work done.



    • 1 September 2020 - The vehicle was taken to the same Ford dealership for its first 15000km service (ODO 14929km).



    • 12 November 2020 - On our way back home from the same Ford dealership, after dropping the company vehicle off for a service, the Ford EcoSport went into "limp mode", with a spanner warning light illuminating. This error code cleared by itself after the vehicle was switched off.



    • 13 November 2020 - The next day, on our way to the Ford dealership to collect our company vehicle, the Ford EcoSport went into "limp mode" again.



    • We immediately reported to the Ford dealership and were told that the reason for this could be the wrong octane fuel being used (93 ULP instead of 95 ULP) as the error code indicated an “engine knock/pre-ignition”. This did not sound plausible as we had only ever filled the vehicle with 95ULP.
    • After we told the Ford Technician that the engine doesn't sound right, he offered a few other possible causes, for example, that because it is a 3 cylinder 1000cc engine, it is "unbalanced" and it is quite common for them to idle unevenly. It was at this point in time that I starting getting doubts as to the knowledge and skill at this particular garage but I left it there for the time being.
    • The Ford technician cleared the error code and we were sent on our way.
    • As our vehicle was on empty, we proceeded to the Engen garage right next to the Ford dealership to fill up with 95ULP.
    • Not even 5 minutes later, even before leaving the town, the Ford EcoSport went into "limp mode" again. We headed back to the Ford dealership, where after the vehicle was booked in (13 November 2020).


    • 14 December 2020 - We received the vehicle back a month later, after the engine was replaced due to a cylinder failure. The odometer reading was 23008km. The replacement engine was sourced from Romania.
      The cause of the engine/cylinder failure was not confirmed, but the damage to one piston is evident on the photo attached.



    • 29 March 2021 - The Ford EcoSport went into "limp mode" again with the spanner warning light illuminating. I contacted Ford Roadside Assist and they arranged for the vehicle to be transported to the same Ford dealership.



    • 30 March 2021 – The Ford EcoSport was taken to the Ford dealership. The odometer reading was 28385km, a mere 5377km after the engine was replaced.



    • 5 May 2021 – I received a mail from the Ford dealership indicating that Ford will not repair the vehicle under warranty, claiming that contaminated/not up to specification fuel was used in the vehicle which resulted in it breaking down.

    The investigation revealed traces of discolouring/metal deposits found on the spark plugs, injectors, O2 sensors and catalytic converter. See photos attached.
    The strange thing however, is that the fuel sample sent away by the Ford dealership passed the quality tests. See attached.

    I don’t claim to be an expert on the subject of engines and fuel systems, but I have seen my fair share of sparkplugs and related components and from what I’ve observed, the reddish/brown colour on the components appears normal to me.

    What also bothers me is the fact that there had already been a recall on these models as a result of SA fuel quality as alluded to above.

    Am I right to be a little sceptical with regards to Ford’s diagnosis?

    It must also be said that we get our fuel delivered to the company premises from which tanks we also fill up from time to time, but this is still only 95 octane, and has been delivered by the same supplier for the past few years.

    Incidentally, this supplier (after learning of our experience) has offered to conduct his own independent tests on the fuel that gets delivered to make sure that same is up to specification and standards. I will then be in a better position to consider a way forward.

    May I ask for your thoughts on the matter looking at the photos etc. Can the wrong octane fuel really cause this type of damage? Any thoughts, advice or similar experiences in this regard welcome please.
    Bought at BB Menlyn Ford or Aurinia Ford?

    Was the car filled up at mostly the same fuel stations on both 1st and 2nd engines?

  20. #54
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    Default Re: Ford very finnicky over petrol - 2nd engine replacement imminent.

    Quote Originally Posted by supersunbird View Post
    Bought at BB Menlyn Ford or Aurinia Ford?

    Was the car filled up at mostly the same fuel stations on both 1st and 2nd engines?
    Bought at Aurinia Ford.
    Mostly filled up at the same fuel stations, but not exclusively.

  21. #55
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    Default Re: Ford very finnicky over petrol - 2nd engine replacement imminent.

    Quote Originally Posted by johann21 View Post
    Bought at Aurinia Ford.
    Mostly filled up at the same fuel stations, but not exclusively.
    Ford is conveniently blaming the fuel used, when it's a defective engine. If it was fuel then there would be a lot of similar cases from other brands with small turbo engines like Renault or VW.
    Last edited by Hennie84; 2021/05/18 at 08:03 PM.

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  23. #56
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    Default Re: Ford very finnicky over petrol - 2nd engine replacement imminent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Die SwartKat View Post
    I know of 2.

    Found On Rubbish Dump

    Quite right actually “First on Rubbish Dump”.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  24. #57
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    Default Re: Ford very finnicky over petrol - 2nd engine replacement imminent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Die SwartKat View Post
    I know of 2.

    Forever On Repair Duty

    Found On Rubbish Dump
    Fix Or Replace Daily, and flip it around, DRiver On Foot

    They should never have entered the small car market........
    Last edited by Gustav Jimny; 2021/05/25 at 07:40 PM.
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  25. #58
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    Default Re: Ford very finnicky over petrol - 2nd engine replacement imminent.

    Could ENGEN unleaded 95 be a problem? I heard that some additives can bring down the octane levels. I am no expert, just conveying a message.
    Sent from my iPhone


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