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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Wider Tires (better or not)

    On my Defender, the 235/85R16 tyres performed very well in all conditions.

    I changed to 265/70R16, or was it 265/75?. These looked much cooler. But the rolling resistance was quite a bit higher, and impacted on top speed as a result, which was significant with only 80kW theoretical power at the flywheel.

    On sand I felt no difference - both sizes performed well. In theory the thinner tyre was probably better for reasons mentioned by others, but I could not feel the difference.

    I was very tempted to move back to the thinner 235/85R16 tyres at every new tyre change, but stuck to the wider one, because they were so much more stable with a load on the back. I used the Defender for work as well and probably never traveled without half a ton in the back. And the increased stability made it worthwhile for me. The cooler looks also helped

    Someone mentioned traveling over rocky terrain. There are pros and cons, not sure whether thin or thick are better. On one club trail run through KZN rocky river sections, we followed a Defender with narrow tyres. They had a very rocky ride when compared to ours. They dropped into many narrow "crevasses" while we managed to stay on top with our wider tyres, resulting in a much smoother ride

    In mud with firm bases, narrower is better. In bottomless mud, both are useless, with the favour slightly towards the wider tyres
    Mike Lauterbach

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  3. #42
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    Default Re: Wider Tires (better or not)

    I find tyre threads tiresome. Try not to post on gravel travel and sand driving threads. The pressure and tyre size threads becomes really boring. It is always the one`s with the least off-road experience that start these bun fights.

    All I can add is that once you have driven or owned a 4x4 with 35 x 12`5 plus tyres a new world opens. Being it driving in sand, mud or rocks. Then only you will realize what the traction abilities of big fat rubber is in mentioned conditions.

    Yes small thin tyres will be able to cut through thinner layers of mud and hit hard surface but that is in limited.

    Thin tyers suck in sand does not matter how hard you try to convince yourself. Also going up slippery rock faces thin does not lay down enough rubber to take you to the top. There must be a reason why competition 4x4`s have those huge 47 inch tyres.

    For overlanding I will keep to a popular 265 x 75 x 16 or similar with 3 ply sidewalls to add to load carrying capabilities.
    For the rest as wide and big as possible.
    Last edited by grips; 2021/05/05 at 08:46 PM.

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  5. #43
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    Default Re: Wider Tires (better or not)

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    I find tyre threads tiresome. Try not to post on gravel travel and sand driving threads. The pressure and tyre size threads becomes really boring. It is always the one`s with the least off-road experience that start these bun fights.

    All I can add is that once you have driven or owned a 4x4 with 35 x 12`5 plus tyres a new world opens. Being it driving in sand, mud or rocks. Then only you will realize what the traction abilities of big fat rubber is in mentioned conditions.

    Yes small thin tyres will be able to cut through thinner layers of mud and hit hard surface but that is in limited.

    Thin tyers suck in sand does not matter how hard you try to convince yourself. Also going up slippery rock faces thin does not lay down enough rubber to take you to the top. There must be a reason why competition 4x4`s have those huge 47 inch tyres.

    For overlanding I will keep to a popular 265 x 75 x 16 or similar with 3 ply sidewalls to add to load carrying capabilities.
    For the rest as wide and big as possible.
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  6. #44
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    Default Re: Wider Tires (better or not)

    Quote Originally Posted by ekkekan View Post
    You will find you have to budget more for fuel due to rolling resistance. The new size is 10% more in diameter.
    As per previous postings I also found that 215/65x16 more expensive than 235/60x16. The 16 inch tyres are not a popular size.
    Really?

    RR is in independent of speed. I can push any vehicle Iíve ever owned on a level floor with the tyres correctly inflated.
    How many hp does an overweight pencil pusher produce?
    How many ponies are required to move any vehicle at cruising speeds?
    How big an effect can RR really have on fuel consumption?
    How big an effect can the difference in RR because of tyre width have?

    Wider tyres on solid ground offer lower RR all other variables removed.

  7. #45
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    Default Re: Wider Tires (better or not)

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceB View Post
    Really?

    RR is in independent of speed. I can push any vehicle Iíve ever owned on a level floor with the tyres correctly inflated.
    How many hp does an overweight pencil pusher produce?
    How many ponies are required to move any vehicle at cruising speeds?
    How big an effect can RR really have on fuel consumption?
    How big an effect can the difference in RR because of tyre width have?

    Wider tyres on solid ground offer lower RR all other variables removed.
    I'm just copying this post as an example

    Ill refer back to it later, but for now.. I'll just say wow
    _______________________________________
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  8. #46
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    Default Re: Wider Tires (better or not)

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceB View Post
    Really?

    RR is in independent of speed. I can push any vehicle Iíve ever owned on a level floor with the tyres correctly inflated.
    How many hp does an overweight pencil pusher produce?
    How many ponies are required to move any vehicle at cruising speeds?
    How big an effect can RR really have on fuel consumption?
    How big an effect can the difference in RR because of tyre width have?

    Wider tyres on solid ground offer lower RR all other variables removed.
    Nope. Not my experience in practice. Maybe if you pump them rock hard...
    Mike Lauterbach

  9. #47
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    Default Re: Wider Tires (better or not)

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceB View Post
    Really?


    Wider tyres on solid ground offer lower RR all other variables removed.
    Bruce, thats a bit like saying remove the atmosphere and a Boeing 727 will make JHB to NY in 2 hours.
    Estee = S T = Sean Towlson

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  10. #48
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    Default Re: Wider Tires (better or not)

    Narrow tyres deform more then a wider tyres at same pressure therefor the rolling resistance more, but many other factors will also play a role.
    Johan Kriel

  11. #49
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    Default Re: Wider Tires (better or not)

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    Bruce, thats a bit like saying remove the atmosphere and a Boeing 727 will make JHB to NY in 2 hours.
    If you say so.... not sure I get the metaphor.

    My comment was really in relation to the common belief that wider tyres inherently will increase your fuel consumption. Something I believe is nonsense, I have a good bit of engineering principles to back up my belief, but in any event it seems Iím talking nonsense. So Iíll leave it there.

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  13. #50
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    Default Re: Wider Tires (better or not)

    Narrow tyres have more rolling resistance , Wider tires have more rolling resistance. There might be a correct answer between those 2 if all other variables are fixed, but I am not sure that that answer is relevant.

    If a your tire is digging through sand you are going to use more fuel than if your tire is driving on top of the sand. Both the narrow and the wider tire can dig through or ride on top, it depends again on pressure, sand conditions, the nut holding the S wheel, etc slightly wider vs slightly narrower but more diameter is going to make a lot less difference than the other factors.

    I would submit the following for debate.

    1. Bigger tires work better, than smaller tires, but only if you have enough power to rotate the tire.
    2. Sidewall height is in my opinion slightly more important than total diameter , but only if you have sufficient diameter to start with.
    3. Diameter is slightly more important than Width, but only if you have sufficient width to start with.
    4. Width is slightly more important than Thread Pattern , as long as the thread Pattern is reasonable, (Wheels with spikes for Ice Is not reasonable for rock crawling)
    5. Thread pattern is slightly more important than rubber compound
    etc
    etc
    The order of priority on some of above mentioned might be debatable, but in my opinion the thread is about the order of #2 and #3 and #4 above , and I agree that sidewall height imo is above width, as above, all I am saying is that the order is true as long as the other dimensions meet with a certain minimum. I am also saying that you should split the influence of total Diameter from Profile as you can have enough profile, but not enough diameter and vice versa.

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  15. #51
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    Default Re: Wider Tires (better or not)


    The Land-rovers we used in the "camel trophy" all over the world, for years and years, the tyres were fairly thin with knobbles almost like motor bike off-road tyres.

    For all the LR's it did not matter whether it was desert or mud event.

    One of the big factors with advantage of thinner tyres was the was rolling resistance.
    Current off-road vehicles: *** Great family accommodation. See Facebook, Google maps and airbnb. Mkulu Kei at Wild Wind Ranch
    * 1975/8 SHREK LAND-CRUISER FJ40 DIESEL P/U, BFG 31x10.5 muds. 1.6 ton tirfor winchs
    * 1994 LAND-CRUISER J70 DIESEL P/U, my truck recovery vehicle. 15000 warn winch. And 3.5ton tirfor winch. Back full of appropriate sized recovery gear. BFG31x10.5 muds
    * 2014 LAND-CRUISER LX V8 76 DIESEL STATION WAGON, BFG's 285 all terrain.

    * 2011 HILUX 4X4 P/U, BFG 31x10.5 all terrain
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    * 2006 FORD ranger 2.5 diesel. 4x4, (what was I thinking, also not a Toyota!) I have a spare 5000 warn winch I might fit.
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  16. #52
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    Default Re: Wider Tires (better or not)

    Quote Originally Posted by K-9 View Post

    The Land-rovers we used in the "camel trophy" all over the world, for years and years, the tyres were fairly thin with knobbles almost like motor bike off-road tyres.
    Point taken, but consider this, Is it still the case? if not , why not?
    Maybe current vehicles have more power and are able to turn bigger tires?

  17. #53
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    Default Re: Wider Tires (better or not)

    Quote Originally Posted by K-9 View Post

    The Land-rovers we used in the "camel trophy" all over the world, for years and years, the tyres were fairly thin with knobbles almost like motor bike off-road tyres.

    For all the LR's it did not matter whether it was desert or mud event.

    One of the big factors with advantage of thinner tyres was the was rolling resistance.
    They also had an almanac for a speedometer
    _______________________________________
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    I drive a fire engine red Cruiser and tow an army inspired van.

  18. #54
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    Default Re: Wider Tires (better or not)

    Quote Originally Posted by K-9 View Post

    The Land-rovers we used in the "camel trophy" all over the world, for years and years, the tyres were fairly thin with knobbles almost like motor bike off-road tyres.

    For all the LR's it did not matter whether it was desert or mud event.

    One of the big factors with advantage of thinner tyres was the was rolling resistance.

    Agree---but the road noise
    Toyota Fortuner D-4D 4x4 AT---My "speed control en navigasie "sisteem is al oor die 50 jaar oud!Ham Call ZS1SSM

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