View Poll Results: Choose one to overland in:

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  • Older easier to fix 4x4

    46 52.87%
  • Newer more reliable but complicated 4x4

    41 47.13%
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  1. #61

    Default What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dewald Posthumus View Post
    Hedgehog, all speculation and opinions. I for one am with you, give me a new car to drive anywhere.

    Perhaps you should add another poll and ask:

    Have you ever been stranded next to the road with a car?

    Old car - unable to fix it on the spot
    Old car - able to fix it on the spot
    New car - unable to fix it on the spot
    New car - able to fix it on the spot
    The poor OPs thread is turning into a parliament spectacle.
    Last edited by Therackermann; 2021/05/05 at 10:48 AM.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    The only time I broke down and could not drive further was a condenser failure on a points and condenser system, then a power steering pump on a Disco 1 that seized a bearing and the pulley came of disabling the belt drive system. A front wheel bearing cage that fractured almost stopped me but I could crawl to a place where I could borrow tools and grease to temporary fix.

    Non of the high tech electronics have ever let me down.

    Even helped tow a Disco 1 TDi back across Botswana to Zeerust due to tensioner pulley failure causing overheating and blown head gasket with my petrol V8 full of electronic ignition and EFI ECU's.

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  4. #63
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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    Vehicles don’t only have engines..

    Long life of off road or even on road use means more wear and tear on drive trains and suspensions as well
    Absolutely, 100% this.

    I have owned and driven old 4x4s, and you have to do constant maintenance on them as the various components come to the end of their design lifespans. Rubber and plastic get worn and brittle, mechanical items require refurbishment or replacement. It is a constant process to keep an old vehicle in tip-top shape.

    For me personally, I would prefer a new (newer) vehicle, where at most general servicing forms the majority of the required maintenance.

    Also, as someone mentioned earlier, if I owned the old vehicle for 10 or 15 years, then I will be comfortable with it, if I were to buy a 20 year old vehicle today, I would not know what type of maintenance it had through the years and that would make me very uncomfortable.

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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    A number of aspects for consideration:

    1. Mechanical components give an indication of failure

    2. Electronic components are prone to instantaneous failure or intermittent failures

    3. The new vehicles will one day be old vehicles. Will they be less reliable than today's old vehicles?

    4. Will they be suportable and seviceable?

    I have lived with classic cars, an Italian one to boot, and yes, they need constant attention and fettling. But, when they were new, they required it then too.
    Estee = S T = Sean Towlson

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  7. #65
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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    A brand new defender with warranty. All my issues addressed then

    Realistically though, I'm all for the newer version and praying it doesn't break down.
    Last edited by lizardalpha; 2021/05/05 at 08:06 PM.
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  8. #66
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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    A number of aspects for consideration:

    1. Mechanical components give an indication of failure

    2. Electronic components are prone to instantaneous failure or intermittent failures

    3. The new vehicles will one day be old vehicles. Will they be less reliable than today's old vehicles?

    4. Will they be suportable and seviceable?

    I have lived with classic cars, an Italian one to boot, and yes, they need constant attention and fettling. But, when they were new, they required it then too.
    Another aspect to consider. Safety of occupants in the vehicle.
    2011 Freelander 2 SE
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  9. #67
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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    A number of aspects for consideration:

    1. Mechanical components give an indication of failure

    2. Electronic components are prone to instantaneous failure or intermittent failures

    3. The new vehicles will one day be old vehicles. Will they be less reliable than today's old vehicles?

    4. Will they be suportable and seviceable?

    I have lived with classic cars, an Italian one to boot, and yes, they need constant attention and fettling. But, when they were new, they required it then too.
    Think one needs to asses what spare part availability will be for any 4x4 that you plan to travel off the beaten track.
    I guarantee that knowing some of the manufacturers that we will see a difference in popularity of the now older 4x4`s ten years down the line.
    Last edited by grips; 2021/05/06 at 05:16 AM.

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  11. #68
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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    I would tend to go with older vehicles. I had my share of petrol, distributor, carb systems. Rebuilt most if them without much hassle. Once I ironed out all teething problems it was a case of maintaining and that was it. I now have a 2007 Prado which was vetted by Arnold Venter. Since then it's been on numerous trips all around the country doing rough stuff as well. The electronics is 14 years old and basically if it hasn't failed yet then it shouldn't in the future. It doesn't get abused. Then again you get cars like BMW and Audi. The older types were robust and don't need more than routine maintenance if you knew what need doing. The new VW and Audi engines have timing chains that need replacing around 100k milage. My Nissan Patrol which had a copy of the 2 8 Merc engine had over 350k of hard driving with load and never needed replacement. Admittedly timing belts do wear as well but then they dont cost an arm and a leg at stealers to replace.
    Then again I have had my share of failures but was able to repair or get myself home.
    Earlier thread someone wrote about flying techie out to fix. Reminds me of Voetspore in Kenya where they had a problem with the Amorak. Cost a flight up with a head to replace as the bush mechanics there couldn't get it right. Wouldn't like to know what that bill came to.
    My Madza 2.5 is basic and wouldn't swop it for today's electronic gizmos vehicles. The same could be said for my 4.2 LC where my alternator packed up in Katima Mulilo. Drove all the way back to SA when battery died. No power at all no gauges or radio but engine kept running all the way. Try that with any new 4x4.
    Last edited by Wylie E; 2021/05/06 at 02:11 AM.

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  13. #69
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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy529 View Post
    For me personally it will be 50-50 because I know very little about vehicle mechanics so anyway can't really fix anything myself.

    If I owned a 20 year old 4x4 with 300k km on the clock for a couple of years then I would constantly do preventative maintenance on it, so I will be confident in taking it on a overland trip knowing what has been done and what hasn't. But different story if you buy a 20 year old vehicle today, give it a oil service and then take off on a trip.
    Therein lies the crux if you want to overland in an old(er) vehicle,
    Ettienne de Kock

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  14. #70
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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    I think it also depends on what kind of vehicle owner you are. What does your garage look like? Immaculately clean with a see-through glass-paneled door, or with V8 parts stacked on shelves all over the place.
    My dad loved working on his vehicles. It was his passion. He was really good at it too. Myself, although I can help myself, and I have most of tools required, I just don't enjoy working on cars as much as he did. I get in, and I drive. So I need a car that allows me to do that. The price I pay for this, is that it will be more expensive. I'm fine with that.

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  16. #71
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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Connan View Post
    Please note that this post is not meant to be argumentative but is a genuine desire to learn.

    Just a couple of questions to those members who have modern vehicles and DO carry scan tools (and have taken the trouble to learn how they work):

    Let's say it stops in a very remote area, and the scanner tells you the problem lies with the crank position sensor (or any other sensor critical to engine operation): can you fix it, assuming you don't have that sensor in your toolbox?
    Or do you guys carry spares of all these critical sensors?

    Secondly, let's say it is a less critical failure (one which would not cause damage if not monitored, perhaps a wheel speed sensor used by the ABS/ESC), but still one that forces the car into limp mode. Using only the scan tool, can you restore the vehicle to reasonable functionality?

    Lastly, I have heard of many cases of cars going back to dealers for a fault, and despite the availability of a dealer-trained technician and the use by such of a scan tool, it still takes the replacement of multiple parts to affect an effective repair. Is this due to operator error, or the way the tools work? Can anybody guarantee first time every time fault identification using these tools?
    I helped a friend with a Disco 3 auto - car would not go out of park. Read the code with my cheapie code reader, googled the error code - showed that water had got into the gear selector. I asked them and they had forgotten the sunroof open a few days earlier. Took covers off gear selector, wiped/cleaned etc disconnect battery and reconnected and off they went

  17. #72
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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    Nah, the guys with the older vehicles are on their own.

    I owned a 1993 Hilux - it was slow, uncomfortable and thirsty.

    Did 600 odd km to get to Kosi Bay on many fishing trips, then when I get off road it was absolutely wonderful for the 25 odd km we travelled on sand.

    Used that same vehicle up to Inhambane in 2003 - you would think that I learnt my lesson by then, but hey, I was young and stupid.

    I took it on one final trip to Botswana/ Zambia/ Zimbabwe in 2006 and sold it shortly after.

    I vowed never again will I drive a vehicle that is uncomfortable on road and great off road- those fishing trips we spent less than 5% of our travels off road.

    And yes, that Hilux did break down on both the Mozambique and Botswana trips, and yes I could fix it, but hell, I would much rather go there in my Prado and know that I cannot fix it if breaks down.

    Did I mention NEVER AGAIN?

  18. #73
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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    Ek haat dit ook as n voertuig breek met my langs die pad.
    Vrywaring: Niks wat ek hier kwyt raak moet hoegenaamd as feite beskou word nie.

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  20. #74
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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    Each to his own I'd say. Me, I would rather fix my Defender in the bundus, than be stuck to wait for help and get a massive bill attached. Also the 10/15k/ month on installments for a holiday vehicle is a definite "NO". I carry a spare alt, starter, diesel pump, water pump and the usual belts. Other than that it only needs 1 wire to run for the cut off valve. I even tossed the power steering out and went manual. I keep a few of the usual wheel bearing in the tool box as well. It gives me peace of mind knowing that I should be able to fix most of the possible things that can go wrong. When we get home, I hose the car inside and out. No worries. I always say to my wife: imagine if I had to spend 10k/ month on the Defender. I would run out of things to replace?
    Last edited by fixit; 2021/05/10 at 03:04 AM.

  21. #75
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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reenen View Post
    Ek haat dit ook as n voertuig breek met my langs die pad.
    Die verskil is jy kan dit regmaak met lap langs die pad. Meeste ander kan nie.
    Cheers
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  23. #76
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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    To the OP

    I maintain my own stuff

    I was the proud owner of a '99 Nissan Hardbody 3.2D s/c 4x4. When I bought it, it had 158 000km on and 8 years old. I drove it until a crap diesel filter caused a diesel pump failure at 580 000km. I then went through the vehicle from front to back and totaled up all items to be repaired - including the duff diesel pump and came to the eye watering conclusion that it would cost more than the vehicle is worth

    So. I then bought a five year old NP300 2.4 Petrol s/c 4x4 with 80 000km on the clock

    It is more reliable

    I can actually overtake stuff on an uphill

    My personal experience: The newer vehicle is more reliable

    Have a good one
    Last edited by willieg; 2021/05/10 at 09:10 AM.
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  24. #77
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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    Quote Originally Posted by willieg View Post
    To the OP

    I maintain my own stuff

    I was the proud owner of a '99 Nissan Hardbody 3.2D s/c 4x4. When I bought it, it had 158 000km on and 8 years old. I drove it until a crap diesel filter caused a diesel pump failure at 580 000km. I then went through the vehicle from front to back and totaled up all items to be repaired - including the duff diesel pump and came to the eye watering conclusion that it would cost more than the vehicle is worth

    So. I then bought a five year old NP300 2.4 Petrol s/c 4x4 with 80 000km on the clock

    It is more reliable

    I can actually overtake stuff on an uphill

    My personal experience: The newer vehicle is more reliable

    Have a good one
    I'm sure there are many members on forum who wouldn't give up their 20 year old vehicles. Yes can be repaired in the bush when needed. The fact you an eye watering bill to fix your car means you let thing go to rot. I check my cars regularly. When it breaks I fix it. IE when I came back on a be bad road from Mpumalanga I had a transfer case leak and CV boot wrecked. Fixed there and then. I am now over 4000km on a trip to western cape. Been playing 4x4 and all over. Not a hiccup but then it is a Prado. Dont forget its man made so needs maintenance.
    Last edited by Wylie E; 2021/05/10 at 09:20 AM.

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  26. #78
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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    It is an interesting question. I would choose the lower mileage newer vehicle hands down with a proviso. The make and model of the vehicle you buy. Don't buy a vehicle that stands out like as something from another world in the places you intend to habit with it. You will not find any support for it. Problems encountered with vehicles today are much less related to manufacturing faults than there were in the past because of more reliable tolerances. But they are also more highly stressed and this may lead to fatigue failures on certain components earlier than we would have hoped for.

    Back in the day, we travelled everywhere in a Series IIA Land Rover S/W fitted with a Chev 4100 motor. The clock went around at least 4 times but I was young and into fixing things so I had a spare parts box that came along with us. Remarkedly, I replaced only a few sideshafts, a clutch and cleaned the fuel system and Solex carburettor out many times. That was a really uncomplicated beast, but without good mechanical and electrical knowhow and the parts/spares box we could have been in big trouble. I would travel anywhere with her again today.

    But then I had 90 Series Prado. It was like driving a Bentley in comparison and we did 320,000km without a breakdown. Dirty fuel problems fixed yes, but no broken bits. The turbo blew at about 180,000km and we drove on like that. I had towed a lot with that car and was starting to get concerned about possible fatigue failures when we were in the boonies. Often on our own, we decided to buy a new car.

    We also had two Discovery's, 4 SD and 4 TD. Experienced several 'minor' disablements-like suspension sitting down, doors not opening, going into limp mode. These happened under warranty and close to civilisation so were sorted, but we decided that neither of them were bush proof, no matter how nice they were to drive.

    So we decided to emulate the Prado, but with less complication, so went for a Land Cruiser 76 V8. Some say we should have bought the 4.2 for reliability, and if I could have got a petrol model with a carburettor I probably would have bought that! But If an vehicle has an ECU and high pressure fuel injection it most probably has quite a few bits you cannot fix yourself on the road no matter the make, and it then comes down to how many computer chips there are to bedevil you and how robust the drive chain and suspension are, and how standard you are going to be able to keep the vehicle-here I am thinking suspension kits-which have the unfortunate habit of not even being able to identify which exact part you have, let alone actually finding one north of the boerewors line.

    Then there is a simpler way to look at it. Buy what you can afford and what you are happy with and make sure you buy a recovery policy. Nothing wrong with that route either. It can become expensive keeping old vehicles alive.

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  28. #79
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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    Ek gee nie regtig om. Ek sal met my c190 1980 isuzu, of my 1978 w123 200 gaan toer. Net so maklik met een van my safaris, of patrols. Baie maklik met die v9x (wat al oud is, maar in my boeke “nuwe” tegnologie is).

    Ek gee regtig nie om nie. Wat ook al gebeur, dit is deel van die adventure.

    Dalk is ek lus om die vw autovilla te start, en n lang trip te begin. Dit is die fun.

    Ek is ietwat van n kar verslaafde. Buiten werks voertuie, het ek ongeveer 30 persoonlikke voertuie. Ek sal in enige een klim met minder as n week se voorbereideing, en n 10 000km roadtrip doen. Verkieslik alles grondpad.
    Vrywaring: Niks wat ek hier kwyt raak moet hoegenaamd as feite beskou word nie.

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  30. #80
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    Default Re: What do you feel more comfortable with, newer car, or an easier to fix car?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reenen View Post
    Ek gee nie regtig om. Ek sal met my c190 1980 isuzu, of my 1978 w123 200 gaan toer. Net so maklik met een van my safaris, of patrols. Baie maklik met die v9x (wat al oud is, maar in my boeke “nuwe” tegnologie is).

    Ek gee regtig nie om nie. Wat ook al gebeur, dit is deel van die adventure.

    Dalk is ek lus om die vw autovilla te start, en n lang trip te begin. Dit is die fun.

    Ek is ietwat van n kar verslaafde. Buiten werks voertuie, het ek ongeveer 30 persoonlikke voertuie. Ek sal in enige een klim met minder as n week se voorbereideing, en n 10 000km roadtrip doen. Verkieslik alles grondpad.
    Ek kan daarmee saamstem......ek het met blou Rocky na maand se besit (net vloeistof veranderinge) summier Pretoria toe gery en wit Rocky op A-raam huis toe gesleep. Drie dae trip. My toolbox was gepak altemit.
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