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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    Quote Originally Posted by leons View Post
    Thanks Rain Hard. That's a nice looking box, well put together.

    What does VE direct do? Is it the box next to the shunt?

    Also, I see you're using one of the remote switch connections on the Phoenix. How does that work?
    VE direct allows you to connect the VE Direct Smart Blutooth Dongle. This makes the “dumb” inverter "smart" - so it can be seen on the Victron Connect App. Then you can control it and monitor its load output (and other variables) through Victron Connect. Comes up as a "VE Connect device" - then just change the name in the settings tab in Victron Connect to "Phoenix" or whatever you like. The VE Direct Bluetooth Dongle - It’s the small black box with the loooong cable in the lid next to the fuse box.

    The inverter must never be tripped (in case of a battery low when you’re trying to shed loads to protect the battery) by using the battery protect to interrupt the + load cable of the inverter. Inverter should be fully connected to battery + and shunt - out - permanently. So how you trip it is by using the remote input of the Inverter. If you take out the small black bridge wire from the inverter "remote plug", the Inverter will only work if it receives a + from somewhere into the LEFT remote spot (if we make the source of that +ve the battery protect out, then when the battery protect trips it will also safely disconnect your inverter.
    Last edited by Rain Hard; 2021/05/06 at 07:39 AM.

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    Aha, thanks! I'll have to get one. I'll cater for it in my build. I'm also going to use marine ply, seems like a nice way to build a custom box. Probably going overboard a bit - using 15mm, so fairly heavy.

    Do you also have a lithium battery? And have you run it in the wild yet?
    Leon Smith
    2020 Toyota Hilux XtraCab 2.8 4x4
    Fiat 500 0.9l turbo flattie

  4. #23
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    Quote Originally Posted by leons View Post
    Aha, thanks! I'll have to get one. I'll cater for it in my build. I'm also going to use marine ply, seems like a nice way to build a custom box. Probably going overboard a bit - using 15mm, so fairly heavy.

    Do you also have a lithium battery? And have you run it in the wild yet?
    You are going to loooove the performance. Ja 15mm is certainly bombproof. I made the panels where I had to drill through or screw into 9mm, the rest 6mm. It’s solid.
    I only run chargers and small stuff off the Phoenix.
    I have 2 Waeco CFX fridge / freezers and no worries.
    The Bluenova 108 sucks up everything you feed it and having Victron Connect from the SmartShunt allows you full visibility of your SOC (was a little tricky to get it accurate though).
    I must say I like the Smart BatteryProtect as it has a software switch that allows you to disconnect ALL loads including those small irritating little ghost loads like voltage displays, etc.
    You have the 712, which has a rely that can be activated by SOC to switch your battery protect - nice feature.
    Last edited by Rain Hard; 2021/05/06 at 07:32 AM.

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  6. #24
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    I have a lot to learn yet! I'm a bit sorry I got the 100/15 MPPT, and not a 20 30. It's going to take a while to load with only 15 amps.

    I'm only running a 40l Engel and cellphone chargers though, and also only laptop and camera charging via the Phoenix. Hopefully I won't need a full day to recharge.
    Leon Smith
    2020 Toyota Hilux XtraCab 2.8 4x4
    Fiat 500 0.9l turbo flattie

  7. #25
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    Quote Originally Posted by leons View Post
    I have a lot to learn yet! I'm a bit sorry I got the 100/15 MPPT, and not a 20 30. It's going to take a while to load with only 15 amps.

    I'm only running a 40l Engel and cellphone chargers though, and also only laptop and camera charging via the Phoenix. Hopefully I won't need a full day to recharge.
    This will be more than adequate for you - the chargers and inverters do lose a bit when it gets super hot (40+) - download the Victron "Toolbox" to assist with cable sizing and the "derating" info. Also leave the Inverter off as much as possible - even in the idle state they draw (Phoenix has a ECO mode but also takes a little).

    Don't fuss about your MPPT - It will handle 220W and the amp rating on 2x100W panels is about 2x 6.8A so unless you were wanting to cart around more than 2x100W you will be good If you want to hook-up some more panels just get another 100/15 - they work very well together and "talk" via Victron Connect. The fridge will never draw the battery down to20% SOC unless you don't drive and have a few very bad days on the trot.

    p.s the Orion 12/12/30 gets HOT - "can't touch this" hot! So plan your build to keep it out the way and well ventilated.

    I'd not use (my opinion - I need to review this) the load outs on the MPPT - my take is that everything must go through the Shunt - sure, the load channel can disconnect loads when the battery state drops but only those connected and it sort of messes with the whole goal of the Shunt (712).

    I'd drop a battery protect into the build - use as in my earlier messages. Also.... with the Victron Energy "VE.Direct TX Digital Output Cable" you can connect one of the bigger MPPTs (like 100/30 100/50) via the VE.Direct port to switch the battery protect (or other relay) off in case of low (and I think high) battery voltage - another very neat solution from Victron. I'm building that into my system now - completely redundant I know considering this is the job of the Battery Protect and it programmed accordingly.
    Last edited by Rain Hard; 2021/05/06 at 07:30 AM.

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  9. #26
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    Thanks for all the good info. I'll stop worrying aboout the 15amp MPPT and just let it do its work. You're right. I can only cart one or two panels around in the bakkie.

    p.s the Orion 12/12/30 gets HOT - "can't touch this" hot! So plan your build to keep it out the way and well ventilated.
    Dirk mentioned this as well. So yes, the Orion is going to hang from a purpose built bracket mounted to the (inside) roof of the canopy (the canopy has built in rails), freelly ventilated. It'll connect to the box via a 50amp Anderson.

    Agree on the battery protect. Not sure how the Blue Nova reacts to low voltage. So I must make provision for this and VE.

    Another question: I notice you have two non-Anderson DC sockets mounted. What type are they, and what do you use them for? Do you feel they are adequate, or would you have preferred more?

    Finally, what fuse size do you have on your Phoenix feed?

    Sorry about all the questions, and thanks!
    Leon Smith
    2020 Toyota Hilux XtraCab 2.8 4x4
    Fiat 500 0.9l turbo flattie

  10. #27
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    Quote Originally Posted by leons View Post
    Thanks for all the good info. I'll stop worrying aboout the 15amp MPPT and just let it do its work. You're right. I can only cart one or two panels around in the bakkie.



    Dirk mentioned this as well. So yes, the Orion is going to hang from a purpose built bracket mounted to the (inside) roof of the canopy (the canopy has built in rails), freelly ventilated. It'll connect to the box via a 50amp Anderson.

    Agree on the battery protect. Not sure how the Blue Nova reacts to low voltage. So I must make provision for this and VE.

    Another question: I notice you have two non-Anderson DC sockets mounted. What type are they, and what do you use them for? Do you feel they are adequate, or would you have preferred more?

    Finally, what fuse size do you have on your Phoenix feed?

    Sorry about all the questions, and thanks!
    100% with Orion

    Blue Nova is well made and the BMS will protect at very low voltages but we need a cut-off to kick in before that (even if it's just the fridge cut-off). I think the Victron SBP is good.

    I have 1xHella; 1xCigar; 1xUSB-A; 1xUSB-C - I put the middle voltage/usb plug in as a redundant backup for voltage readout (although it is a ghost load) in case I drop my phone in the sea or something. Some manufacturers still make male Cigar type chargers (on otherwise great products) - so would rather use that than "inverting back" to AC to charge. More efficient. Hella... because they are slightly more secure than cigar. I sometimes change my cigar males to those 2-in-1 hella males - they can fit into a cigar too. I also want to be able to cater for "other peoples gear" not have everything non-compatible. Adequate for me - the fridges (if I take both) run off the "Pamela Anderson" greys on top. These are 100% secure.

    I have not fused my Phoenix feed - the manual says it only needs to be fused if cable is longer than 1.5m. There are 3x35a non-replaceable fuses - we could replace those in a pinch - see pic below. Maybe a 60a inline is a good option (I may do that - thanks).

    My "ins" are:
    Red - 1) for feed from Orion DC out and 2) I made a patch for my IP65/15A
    Green - Solar (that then goes into the MPPT and the MPPT out to the battery. Get yourself a little cable cover for your MPPT - yours is the "S-small" size - makes it look neat and stops stuff shorting. To disconnect the solar in, do it at the panels 1st or just pull out this plug. Never disconnect your MPPT on the battery side without 1st disconnecting the input.
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    Last edited by Rain Hard; 2021/05/06 at 10:14 AM.

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  12. #28
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    Quote Originally Posted by DCTheron View Post
    If one do the sums then yes an Anderson will work, i.e 500VA / 12V = ~42A and the Anderson plug is rated 50A.
    Remember that 500VA is running - can take up to 900W on inrush.

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  14. #29
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Rain Hard View Post
    My design with similar components. All on the box excluding Orion DCDC.
    All chargers +ve to the battery +ve via fuse

    All loads from Out on battery protect ( including Phoenix remote supply which will disconnect inverter via remote - Phoenix must be connected directly to battery not Battery protect).

    All -ve to Smartshunt Out.

    VE connect to Phoenix for VE connect

    Fun project - I used marine ply.
    Very neat build and I like all the goodies you have added from the Victron "store". Like Outdoor Warehouse this has become my new "investment" shop

    Just an observation.... I lost a 3-month old Lead Crystal battery in Kgalagadi after some hectic corrugated roads. It was attributed to vibration. It was strapped to the loadbin in my Cruiser DC.

    From that time I always "separate" my batteries from any hard surface, all sides where anything may touch it. I use those integrated sponge goodies one can buy from ODW as in pic below, cut to size. It is already full of holes and about 10mm in thickness. I do not notice any heat buildup of the battery, although not measured as comparison.

    My thinking is to add this around the battery when I build my "box".
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Dirk Theron - Life's a journey, enjoy the ride!
    18 Land Cruiser FJ - build to play
    19 Hilux 2.8 GD-6 Auto 4x4 - my best overland build ever
    2013 LC 200 4.6 Petrol V8 - Ex. The best car I have owned, apart from its thirst
    2014 LC 79 V8 - Ex
    2001 LC 105 4.5 EFI - Ex
    2013 FJ Cruiser - Ex
    1996 LC 80 UK spec VX 4.5 EFI auto - Ex
    2001 Jeep TJ 4L - Ex
    2006 Jeep Cherokee - Ex
    1989 LC Bundera 1KZ-TE 3L auto - Ex
    1996 Nissan Sani DC 4x4 - Ex

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  16. #30
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    Thanks Rain Hard, you're a star sharing all this info! And also you Dirk. I'm going to adjust my measurements to cater for a bump-map.
    Leon Smith
    2020 Toyota Hilux XtraCab 2.8 4x4
    Fiat 500 0.9l turbo flattie

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  18. #31
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    A pic of my temporary install in the Hilux loadbin just to show my thinking around different pressure points from below and vibration. The 200AH is a monster, 522mm long, thus my "box" will be fairly large.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Dirk Theron - Life's a journey, enjoy the ride!
    18 Land Cruiser FJ - build to play
    19 Hilux 2.8 GD-6 Auto 4x4 - my best overland build ever
    2013 LC 200 4.6 Petrol V8 - Ex. The best car I have owned, apart from its thirst
    2014 LC 79 V8 - Ex
    2001 LC 105 4.5 EFI - Ex
    2013 FJ Cruiser - Ex
    1996 LC 80 UK spec VX 4.5 EFI auto - Ex
    2001 Jeep TJ 4L - Ex
    2006 Jeep Cherokee - Ex
    1989 LC Bundera 1KZ-TE 3L auto - Ex
    1996 Nissan Sani DC 4x4 - Ex

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  20. #32
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    The 200AH is a monster, 522mm long, thus my "box" will be fairly large.
    Wow, that is big! But then, you can weather an arctic storm with all that energy... Yes, your box is going to be something special. I'm keeping an eye out for your build thread.
    Leon Smith
    2020 Toyota Hilux XtraCab 2.8 4x4
    Fiat 500 0.9l turbo flattie

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  22. #33
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    I have now drawn some plans, broken down a sheet of marine ply, built the carcass of the box, and fashioned some input/output spaces.

    The dry-run box seen in this post will be the full extent of the permanently glued-up final product.

    Everything else will either slide on, be bolted or screwed on, or attached with some kind of hinge.

    The input/output spaces will take four Andersons, a battery switch, the BMV monitor, and a removable panel with low amp dc sockets.

    The build continues... not without the occasional mishap

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    Leon Smith
    2020 Toyota Hilux XtraCab 2.8 4x4
    Fiat 500 0.9l turbo flattie

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  24. #34
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    Leons - was just going to ask to see some progress!! Looking very good - love the finger/box joints.

  25. #35
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    Thanks Rain Hard! I'm going to start getting closer to electricity tomorrow...
    Leon Smith
    2020 Toyota Hilux XtraCab 2.8 4x4
    Fiat 500 0.9l turbo flattie

  26. #36
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Rain Hard View Post
    The Bluenova 108 sucks up everything you feed it and having Victron Connect from the SmartShunt allows you full visibility of your SOC (was a little tricky to get it accurate though).
    .
    Dont want to hijack the thread but please tell me more. I fitted a Lithium to my caravan but for one or other reason I cant get my Redarc manager 30 to give me a reliable SOC reading of the battery.
    I was thinking of fitting the Victron BT shunt to get a reliable reading via that.
    www.lani4travel.com

    Louis Le Grange

  27. #37
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    Festool Victron. Top notch choices!

  28. #38
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    Hi Louis, welcome to this build. I'm afraid I don't know enough aboout the BMV to give you a meaningful answer, except that the more I read about battery monitoring, the more it became clear that, for lithium, voltage readings aren't sufficient.

    The BMV apparently has more info, including current (amp) readings. It's also Bluetooth enabled, so the physical monitor is not quite so important. It's expensive at 3.5K, but its reputation preceeds it.

    I'm going to connect it directly to the battery negative, and then to a copper busbar on the load side. I'll post a pic later today of the layout.
    Leon Smith
    2020 Toyota Hilux XtraCab 2.8 4x4
    Fiat 500 0.9l turbo flattie

  29. #39
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    Quote Originally Posted by leons View Post
    Hi Louis, welcome to this build. I'm afraid I don't know enough aboout the BMV to give you a meaningful answer, except that the more I read about battery monitoring, the more it became clear that, for lithium, voltage readings aren't sufficient.

    The BMV apparently has more info, including current (amp) readings. It's also Bluetooth enabled, so the physical monitor is not quite so important. It's expensive at 3.5K, but its reputation preceeds it.

    I'm going to connect it directly to the battery negative, and then to a copper busbar on the load side. I'll post a pic later today of the layout.
    Thanks, lets hope Rain Hard has got some tips for us since it looks like me and you might have the same battery.
    www.lani4travel.com

    Louis Le Grange

  30. #40
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    Default Re: Portable Lithium Box

    Thanks Woolf,

    Festool Victron. Top notch choices!
    A fellow maker of sawdust, I presume! What wood I do without ace machinery ... I also have a big domino, but it won't come into play this build.

    I'm an absolute sucker for nice stuff, and Victron crept into that bracket, sight unseen.
    Leon Smith
    2020 Toyota Hilux XtraCab 2.8 4x4
    Fiat 500 0.9l turbo flattie

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