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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    Thanks for all the comments and replies to the threads, hopefully some of the comments rub off on "guilty" parties.
    It seems we might have to try some soft diplomacy before the brandy and cokes kick in, otherwise things are going to deteriorate further.

    I am not sure we are going to get too much help from the authorities. I hear that on Mon 22nd Mar, a Sanparks field guide, with 4 other vehicles, was happy to stop at Polentswa 1 and make use of the facilities there. (Eco trail guests) This has been reported to Sanparks.
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  2. #22
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    I agree with you.

    We unashamedly will take a photo of vehicles we think are breaking the rules. A nice long lens gets them in close and the number plate is clear.

    Once took a pic of a bakkie with two guys driving in the Nossob riverbed. Handed the card to the office at Tweerivieren, they downloaded it and kicked them out that evening.
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  4. #23
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    Quote Originally Posted by iandvl View Post
    Patrick, I actually get that. However, having a discussion with people as opposed to being passive aggressive and simply unplugging stuff or moving the stuff whilst people are out is probably more the way to go.Generally, I dont use 'communal' anything - apart from the ablutions and washing up facilities. Even resort camping with the kids, I use my own power.The thing is - Peter was not given a God given right to police Rooiputs. Or Balule. Or wherever. He is very obviously one of the camp police and one runs into them all the time, all over the place.Referring to people who might not have known the difference between a clothes sink and a washing up sink as sub human (or in whatever condescending manner he did) is not on. As was his rant. If it works him up that much, he should rather consider doing something else. He is going to give hinself a heart attack or something... What I find interesting in terms of the camp police is that in 99% of occasions when I have observed issues they might have had, there was no conversation and only some sort of nasty passive response. And this is what irks me. Generally, when reasons for specific erring behaviour have been pointed out, they are very quick to retract anything.This is not to mean I have had many run-ins with camp police. I have not - I am actually fairly well behaved. But I have been camping for years, and despite really not liking people really much, I can spend ages watching them...My point is: whilst non-adherance to rules is a problem at camp sites, the camp police also are. And I can guarantee you that Peter, and possibly everybody else complaining here, would probably get a better response by having a discussion with people instead of climbing onto their high horses and getting peeved about things.Just my 2c. When I start reading posts like his, I generally.only hear 'whine whine whine'. My last statement is meant with all due respect.
    I totally agree, for instance I cannot see how it would bother me if someone else use electricity from a ablution block? common man, live and let live, music in nature is a taboo for me though.

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  6. #24
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    Quote Originally Posted by Andre Bos View Post
    I totally agree, for instance I cannot see how it would bother me if someone else use electricity from a ablution block? common man, live and let live, music in nature is a taboo for me though.
    But it is just not right. That elect breaker may also be serving other amenities i.e., geyser, lights, etc and may be overloaded.

    SANParks will not allow more than what the camp yard is allocated for and if one chose to pay for a non-elect site it is rude to steal power. Putting you in the same bracket as the millions in Soweto and elsewhere. Disgusting!!

    Needs to be reported immediately.
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  8. #25
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    To all the self proclaimed camp police... I envy your guts. WELL DONE!!!!! There are some hard working decent people that are law abiding and nature loving people that will be the ones suffering the consequences when prices are hiked and sites closed and more restrictions put in place. Those that broke the laws and damaged the system will move on to more expensive lodges or whatever with no remorse. Usually works like that in life. Just look at Bots for example. They don’t want SA there for a good reason (and no, it is not just because of the USD).

    Lets protect what we do have so that we can still enjoy it as we appreciate the opportunity to get “lost” in the wild a bit because we actually love getting away from the business of normal life.

    I blame the parents for raising their kids entitled. We instil values into our children (my opinion).

    So keep up the good work and police on. I trust it is not ever unreasonable.

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  10. #26
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    Quote Originally Posted by iandvl View Post
    Patrick, I actually get that. However, having a discussion with people as opposed to being passive aggressive and simply unplugging stuff or moving the stuff whilst people are out is probably more the way to go.

    Generally, I dont use 'communal' anything - apart from the ablutions and washing up facilities. Even resort camping with the kids, I use my own power.

    The thing is - Peter was not given a God given right to police Rooiputs. Or Balule. Or wherever. He is very obviously one of the camp police and one runs into them all the time, all over the place.

    Referring to people who might not have known the difference between a clothes sink and a washing up sink as sub human (or in whatever condescending manner he did) is not on. As was his rant. If it works him up that much, he should rather consider doing something else. He is going to give hinself a heart attack or something...

    What I find interesting in terms of the camp police is that in 99% of occasions when I have observed issues they might have had, there was no conversation and only some sort of nasty passive response. And this is what irks me. Generally, when reasons for specific erring behaviour have been pointed out, they are very quick to retract anything.

    This is not to mean I have had many run-ins with camp police. I have not - I am actually fairly well behaved. But I have been camping for years, and despite really not liking people really much, I can spend ages watching them...

    My point is: whilst non-adherance to rules is a problem at camp sites, the camp police also are. And I can guarantee you that Peter, and possibly everybody else complaining here, would probably get a better response by having a discussion with people instead of climbing onto their high horses and getting peeved about things.

    Just my 2c. When I start reading posts like his, I generally.only hear 'whine whine whine'. My last statement is meant with all due respect.
    Ian its not like that at all ..90% of the time there is a reason for 'Incidents' Like the time at Tsendze when I heard Branches of a tree breaking late in the evening nearby. I thought how lovely an Ellie is here feeding, but then Roger (The popular camp manager) came to me and my Neighbour and asked what he could do as 2 young foreign tourists had arrived at Tsendze an hour earlier thinking that their London booked Tsendze camp was like the other Kruger Camps with Electricity shops, and a restaurant they were looking forward to eat at. They had nothing through no fault of their own. So started breaking Branches to make a fire in the supplied braai to Heat 2 x tins of Baked Beans for supper. Jane and I really felt sorry for them and asked them to come and have a braai with us at nearby no 14. They were truly thankful and I explained the reason for not stripping the trees etc and showed them the little Scops Owl calling in a tree above their camp. We gave them a complimentary bag of Briquettes and Blitz and lent them a Led lamp and told them about the shop at Mopani as they had 2 nights. The next morning they were at the gate behind me waiting for opening as I had told them about the lions at Grootvlei dam that I had had to myself for 3 early mornings running. they were thrilled as they were still there when we arrived an hour later and both vehicles had awesome great light sightings before they moved off an hour later. It was their first wild lions they had seen in their lives and they had 13 of them around their vehicle far from other tourists , tar roads etc

    Its when you go to Shingwedzi camping and go to the Kitchenette to wash your dishes and find 5 other families waiting with piled up dishes as one of two sinks was not in use as 'Johnny Boy I can do what I like attitude' put his campsite up near the main Gate to give a bush feel in the non campsite long grass which he had now flattened. Of course there were no Elec points there so he had run out a lead to the Kitchenette and there was no slack as his cord was easily 70 metres so it was stretched through the taps to the plug in the Kitchenette > He apparently told the visitors the previous night that its their problem if they all come at the same time to wash plates!!. I went to chat to him and explained that this Kitchenette was for everyone and it was HIS choice to camp there. He reluctantly removed the plug and told all of us present in the Kitchenette that the plug will be going back in 30 mins!! Next night same thing so I just removed the plug to ease the dishwashing >> Ian why should I have to travel 2 days from PE looking forward to my hard earned holiday destination to have it spoiled by sheer inconsiderate arrogance>> Come man >> life is too short and petrol too expensive to put up with this My 2 cents. I once at Rooiputs had a well known Bird Safari Guide and his one male client arrived at Campsite 3 where we were to 'We are just here to use your toilet , my client has a weak bladder snigger' No 'Please may I etc' just taken as "A RIGHT!!' As his client was busy in the long drop emptying his bladder I asked him why he doesnt go to the Lodge next door instead as they have flush loos and nice hot water to wash hands afterwards and cleaning staff etc ?? His reply prompted me to write a letter to the Owner Mr Lawson when I got home. It was ' Oh no the Lodge will kick us out and we will have to drive to Melkvlei or my client will have to go on the road ' ie we campers are considered lower than Shark [email protected]#$t and we can just clean the toilets afterwards>> not on my watch Bru
    Last edited by Peter Betts; 2021/05/03 at 08:05 AM.

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  12. #27
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    Well, music is against the park rules and so is stealing the electricity. Wrong is wrong. If you let small things slide it won't be long before you have a nice "doef-doef" party camping next to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andre Bos View Post
    I totally agree, for instance I cannot see how it would bother me if someone else use electricity from a ablution block? common man, live and let live, music in nature is a taboo for me though.
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  14. #28
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    Quote Originally Posted by mcowell View Post
    We have recently returned from a very enjoyable 3 weeks in Kgalagadi, on both the SA and Bots sides; please tell me if I am a grumpy, old man or if I do have reason to be grumpy?

    Hi, I could not agree with more!😡 It is unfortunately a fact of life that it is always the few that spoil it for all! So yes you do have a reason to be grumpy!

    I found the behaviour of, an admitted minority of the visitors to Kgalagadi, very disappointing. It seems that the general lawlessness and disrespect for others in South Africa is now creeping into the Park as well.

    There is clear signage that Rooiputs is not a “tourist area” but people insist on “touring” through the campsites. While we were camped on site 4 a vehicle drove through between my caravan and the A-frame and couldn’t understand why I was grumpy. This has been a problem at Rooiputs for a long time, but now it is happening at Polentswa too on a regular basis. Not only drive throughs, but also stopping for lunch, even at a campsite that is occupied while the legal camper is out for a drive. All of this driving through Rooiputs and Polentswa is “doubly” illegal at the moment as one needs a Covid clearance to go onto the Botswana side.

    Another irritation at Rooiputs and Polentswa is the blatant disregard of Park opening and closing times, by the campers, who leave early or return late.

    My next point is the way campers in un-powered sites “steal” power from the ablution block at Nossob, where there is a sign above the power-point in the kitchen area, indicating that it should not be done, while at Twee Rivieren, power is taken from the nearest powered site.

    Some people seem unaware that in the ablution block there are different sinks for washing clothes and dishes, and are very happy to wash their dishes and pots in the laundry tubs.

    Walking through campsites, maybe to take a short-cut, and not respecting one’s privacy, even passing between my vehicle and caravan, sometimes with a greeting, sometimes not!

    Then there are drivers on the roads too who think they should have a better view than anybody else, and drive up onto the bank at the side of the road.

    So that is my rant for now, I don’t know how many members echo my sentiments and how many think that I am “a grumpy old man”.

  15. #29
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    There are two sides to every coin.

    I have on a few occassions booked campsites with electricity but arrived to find them all occupied. In such a situation, I will run a lead to an open plug (or even ask somebody if I can share a plug using a double-adapter provided by me). I can see no wrong in doing so. I don't use much power, just a fridge and perhaps a couple of USB's.

    I tend to wander through campsites too, often with camera in hand. Not through other people's stands, but along the roads and fences. I know of no rule against this either.

    While you will never hear music coming from my campsite, I have at times appreciated the talents of neighbours with a guitar or harmonica. But the okes with the vuvuzela at Deception Pan were definitely not appreciated. On the other hand, neighbours with noisy kids are (while not appreciated) certainly not admonished. I was a kid too, and I firmly believe kids should be exposed to nature from the earliest opportunity.

    And if somebody seriously does break the rules, instear of confronting him and getting into a huge fight, just report him when you leave...
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  17. #30
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    As long as the exponential growth in nature participation continues, this tension will increase. The trajectory is clear. It's also clear that under-resourced parks and reserves can't do it on their own. There are some interesting ideas on the thread below, regarding private land use, which can be applied to public wilderness areas. The mutual accountability of a rating system a la AirBNB could be a start. Plus there is the preventative effect of a public "naming and shaming" platform. On the upside, if you're a responsible camper, there's no reason why such a system can't incentivise through preferential bookings, discounts etc.

    https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum...93#post4517093

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  19. #31
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    Well I tried to make a booking for April next year at Nossob. Already fully booked, bookings opened today.

    The park is becoming too popular and obviously all sorts will be attracted. Sadly.
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  20. #32
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    The behaviour of some individuals in our national parks never ceases to astound me.
    My wife and I were in KTP earlier this year and witnessed some ridiculous scenes involving fellow South Africans.

    The "drive through" episodes at Rooiputs and Polentswa were common place, as they always are. The signage at each camp's entry means nothing to some people.
    While it can be an annoyance, I have learnt to not let it spoil my time there.
    The parking of vehicles slightly off the road was also seen many times but does not even come close to two incidents that actually made me embarrassed as a South African.

    1. We came across a lion pride sighting between Cheleka and Dikbaardskolk. There were two vehicles at the sighting, with the lions about 40m or so into the veld. It wasn't the best sighting but it goes that way sometimes. The pride consisted of 3 lioness and around 6 cubs. One of the vehicles was not happy with the pride lazing under some bushes and proceeded to play lion calls full blast from his Land Cruiser sound system. As was expected, the calls sent the cubs into a bit of a panic and the lionesses all stood up trying to identify the "threat". Not more than 30 seconds later, the pride scurried off into the bush and out of sight. The individual that spoilt the sighting then raced off in a cloud of dust.

    2. There was a mating pair of lions just before the turn off to the Lijersdraai picnic site. Again, there were two vehicles when we arrived. The vehicle at the front switched on and turned into the picnic site after about 5 minutes. He then proceeded to make a U-turn in the picnic site so that his vehicle was facing the lions on the other side of the road.
    He then got out his car and climbed onto the top of his camper from the back side of the vehicle. He stood on top of his camper with this proud kind of stance, looking at the lions from up top. The lions did not react and carried on sleeping. After a couple of minutes, he climbed down, got back into the vehicle and drove off.

    Both incidents involved South Africans and both were completely unacceptable.
    Where do people get this sense of entitlement from?

    I did report the incidents but my stand point is that no one should be enacting this kind of behaviour when the rules are clear.
    Moreover, people need to be considerate of the animals and other visitors, as we are all there to enjoy these national treasures.

    A little bit of respect goes a very long way.
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  22. #33
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    Quote Originally Posted by lekhubu943 View Post
    Well I tried to make a booking for April next year at Nossob. Already fully booked, bookings opened today.

    The park is becoming too popular and obviously all sorts will be attracted. Sadly.
    I have heard a contributing factor to this is the tourism companies that do block bookings in case they get clients looking for those dates. Then close to the dates they cancel if no one has taken it.

    I suppose you could just watch out for cancellations but how do you go on a two week trip at five days notice.
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  24. #34
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon93 View Post
    ..I suppose you could just watch out for cancellations but how do you go on a two week trip at five days notice.
    I intend to keep looking for bookings. I can be packed for a 2 week trip within 3 days. No hassle. Plus I don't have a kid in school next year anymore.
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  25. #35
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    Quote Originally Posted by lekhubu943 View Post
    I intend to keep looking for bookings. I can be packed for a 2 week trip within 3 days. No hassle. Plus I don't have a kid in school next year anymore.
    Being packed is not the problem it's getting leave approved

    You are in a really nice position to be able to pack up and go.
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  26. #36
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon93 View Post
    Being packed is not the problem it's getting leave approved

    You are in a really nice position to be able to pack up and go.
    Me and the boss work together and travel together. My leave is always as good as approved. Even if I have 0 leave days.
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  27. #37
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    Quote Originally Posted by lekhubu943 View Post
    Well I tried to make a booking for April next year at Nossob. Already fully booked, bookings opened today.

    The park is becoming too popular and obviously all sorts will be attracted. Sadly.
    Eish, and my wife's school hasn't even released their calendar for next year

    With the price of DWNP daily park fees and the difficulty of Sanparks Kgalagadi bookings I guess I will have to can this idea for now

  28. #38
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    Quote Originally Posted by Half-Pint View Post
    Eish, and my wife's school hasn't even released their calendar for next year

    With the price of DWNP daily park fees and the difficulty of Sanparks Kgalagadi bookings I guess I will have to can this idea for now
    I found a school calendar with 2022 dates on the Department of Education's website, but I guess each school could make small changes.

    It is very frustrating not to get a booking; March and April are very popular. Due to weather and school holidays.

    But I have to ask myself if I want to go to such a fully booked, relatively small park especially in the light of this thread. One is bound to run into a yahoo at least once a day. Do I really, really need that, despite loving the park dearly?
    Christa
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  29. #39
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    It is indeed a luxury, as once life circumstances change, to be able to visit the bush out of the most popular seasons. Advancing age has some compensations.
    Stanley Weakley.
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  31. #40
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    Default Re: Kgalagadi behaviour

    I was reported in the KTP years ago - for getting out of my vehicle to have a pee or grab a beer. Had a chat with the official and some common sense prevailed. Note this was not at a sighting or near a waterhole etc.

    I find that level of pettiness by the snitch just as intolerable as someone who is seriously transgressing the rules. There has to be some modicum of common sense by all parties involved.

    Read the rules carefully when you are next there, it’s almost impossible not to break a rule.

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