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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    Quote Originally Posted by Swartjan View Post
    I suspect these workshops handled this cruiser like the Toyota workshop handles my company bakkie with it's fleet maintenance card:

    " Sir the front inner CV boot is leaking, we must therefore replace the whole driveshaft and both CV's. Also the rear suspension bushes look a bit worn, we must replace both leaf springs"

    The moment you query it they backtrack.
    That’s pretty much how we do it on the fleet vehicles I work on...

    The downtime and labor is often the most expensive part of the repair

    David Vierra
    ‘21 Toyota Tacoma 4X4 3.5L M/T
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  3. #42
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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    I had a good look at the invoices.
    Work done were not overcharged.
    What was done is sometimes 'nessecarry
    The wheel bearings were done cheaper than most dealers charge.

    However it seems that things were repeated by different workshops.

    It is not necessary to change the side shafts with a CV change. You do get the CV' 's separately. You can reuse the old shafts.

    Looks like the workshops went for serious preventive maintenance.
    It is easy to judge from a distance and over a keyboard.
    What we do not know is if all these parts were really changed or were they just added to make up the invoice totals.

    I do all the work on my Cruisers myself.
    They are cheaper to mentain that a VW bus we have had recently.

    When you keep your hands on them little goes wrong.

    In the end it is important to verify if all work is done that you have been charged for. It is also important to point out to the workshops what has been done previously.

    If B does not know A have done wheel bearings B will continue to replace them as per service schedule.

    Inspect expensive repairs like diff center portion and housing replacements. Make sure items really needs replacement.

    All these old SFA 4x4's uses the same basic drive train designs. You seldom need to do serious repairs on diffs at 300k km's.
    They are items that usually outlive a 4x4

    Maybe you are paying the price for neglect by the previous owner. .
    Last edited by grips; 2021/04/24 at 05:56 AM.

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  5. #43
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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    With the cost spend on that car is high.
    My opinion here is that you must get a detail quotation for all work to be done. Get other quotations and compare.
    The mechanic in Cape town did not keep the car in tiptop condition or the previous owner did just the min work at the cheapest costs. What dit the Cape Town mechanic say when you contact him? Surly he did know the car inside / out because he did the maintenance on it. Did he warn you about the problems?
    I will never send my car by truck so fare for service and at that price.
    Buy any car with that KM on the clock is risky. Maybe the next they will tell you the motor need re-work. Do not believe what all Toyota fanatic's say about Toyota. No car with that KM is problem free.
    A fully rig over lander with that KM is a risk to buy, Do not go by looks. That car did most possible had a ruff time. Why did he sold it with all equipment and not use it on his next car? Dealers will give you next to nothing for that equipment when you trade it. That car was abuse and badly maintain.

    I just hope you get usable mileage out the motor. And the spending came to an end. You need the cash in the future to go and enjoy the car.

  6. #44
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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    My take on things, I would strongly suggest that you get your machnical skill level up to a point where you can do all engine and drive train oil and filter changes yourself. It is quite fun and not difficult at all. Get a case of beer, get a buddy to come over, show u what tools u need etc.

    Run the best oils you can find and do this service frequently. You will still save thousands. Packing bearings and other more difficult stuff find a good mechanic.
    2014 Land Cruiser 76 V8 SW
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  7. #45
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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosenvold View Post
    Could it be that each mechanic has not trusted the work of the previous? I did take it to three different mechanics, all of whom would be common go-to names on this forum. My hope is that the coming bills with this last mechanic will be a (small) fraction of the previous ones. I will certainly be pushing for that seeing the reactions on this post.

    I'm not saying their work is the right way to maintain the vehicle but just questioning whether this was done out of dishonesty (cheating a young, foreign guy, willing to pay) or pride in their workmanship.
    I think that herein lies part of the problem, as mentioned by grips below: three different workshops for three services....

    I also think that a lot has to do with the instructions given to the workshop, was it a case of “do what needs to be done” or “please service my vehicle” if it was the first option, then quite possibly, the correct work was done, if it was the latter, then a ride was offered and you were taken on it.

    As mentioned in other comments, there is always a risk with high mileage vehicles, especially those that have “worked” as components do wear out, and even more so when loaded and in harsh conditions.
    I do think however that one does not necessarily need to do all of these components in one go.

    Having said all of this, I believe that you have a +20 year old vehicle that is as new as it can be, and now just needs the regular oil change services, which with a little guidance are not that difficult. If you are still not confident, you can find a decent Bosch Service Centre, or similar locally, that you can go and talk to the owner, get a feel for the business ethics, maybe even walk through the workshop to gain some confidence, and do the regular maintenance there - I don’t think that a LC Specialist is needed for those services.

    Good luck and enjoy your Cruiser.

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  9. #46
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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosenvold View Post

    • I am not mechanically inclined in any way, and have thus not done any work myself
    • I have prioritised keeping the car in great-to-perfect mechanical condition and therefore always taken it to highly recommended mechanics and performed any work they recommended


    I think any decent Landcruiser workshop receiving this instruction from a new customer together with 20+ year old, well used LC for service, without any budget limits given, would search for items to fix.
    I don't know what the vehicle looked like to a mechanic, but I'm sure that e.g. either surplus or total absence of grease on the knuckles would tell a decent mechanic whether or not they had been attended to in the recent past. So if the vehicle showed that some overdue items I would look even more closely and try to get to know the vehicle, since that customer might be a potential return customer.
    Having said that, I would try to establish a relationship of trust with the customer and rather hit the guy with a large maintenance bill, I would compile a list of items to be done in order of priority.
    Seeing that the OP seems to do services about every 5k km, one could certainly spread some work out across the next 3 or 4 services, as an option.

    However, what signal budget wise do you think it sends to a mechanic in CT, if a new customer sends his vehicle from Joburg for a service?

    Crosenvold, I don't know what instructions you gave to the workshops and how they came across. Did you ask for quotations?
    I usually set a budget, above which I would like to get a phone call explaining what needs to be done and what costs to expect.
    But I also try to stick to the same workshop, so the guys get to know the vehicle, which I think is important.
    There must be a number of decent Landcruiser workshops available in Joburg. Join the Landcruiser SA forum (it does cost some money) and ask about recommendations. Sending a vehicle that far for a service doesn't make any sense, unless you live in the sticks.
    2012 FJ Cruiser
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  11. #47
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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    I am a bit stunned by some off the sentiments in this thread. If I were the mechanic (and yes I am in a customer service role so have some experience with this type of thing), I would communicate with the customer and break down the work I suggest doing as follows:
    - Basic service items.
    - Items that need attention in the next while.
    - Items that are not broken but may be weak points on a 22 year old car.

    In this way the customer can make the call and I am being upfront about the condition of a car.

    I think the problem with the mechanics in question's approach is that they clearly don't expect return business (and didn't get it as the OP has used 3 shops so far).

    Being given a "blank cheque" on repairs doesn't mean replace evertything that is replaceable regardless if it is needed or not. The knuckles being rebuilt multiple times is an indicator of that, they coudn't possibly have needed it multiple times in such a short distance travelled, so proper diagnosis was clearly not done.


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  12. #48
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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    Would you trust another mechanic's work?
    Always think: Could this be sarcasm?

    André Opperman

  13. #49
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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    Quote Originally Posted by Oppies3800 View Post
    Would you trust another mechanic's work?
    Its either done right or not. If it isn't you call the customer and show him the botched job so he can take it up with the previous shop that botched it. I don't see the OP ever saying he felt any problems with the car, so either he REALLY isn't mechanically inclined or all the shops are being so super duper preventative that knuckles have to be redone every 5k km...


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  14. #50
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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    I think I know of the renowned mechanic you refer to in Cape Town. Let me recall expensive ‘original Toyota parts’, aggressive badgering, hard to get hold of and fobbed off by family member receptionist. A bill one NEVER EVER imagined.
    never again! Absolutely never!
    But after another ‘expert’ did a botch job you wonder where one must turn?!
    is it not easier to hire a 4x4 for trips. And drive a more economical option around town? Saving for your trips? No hassle. No maintenance. No logistics. All the comforts. You can easily save 10l per 100 km. Even more.
    In my experience it is better to be a bit of a grease monkey if you own these sorts of cars. Else it is ### en betaal.

  15. #51
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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    @Crosenvold: After having spent roughly 442k to get your Cruiser in decent condition, if you could do it all over, would you have rather spent R442k on a decent 105 or would you still have followed the same route as you did?
    Cheers
    Willem Greyling

    "When the wise man points at the moon, the imbecile examines the finger" - Confucius

  16. #52
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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    That mechanic of yours in Cape Town is smoking more than just TIK.
    RechardT

    Now- Toyo GD6 2.8- Creed

    One day is One day- Dodge Ram 6.7l TD.

    You can go anywhere you want in life as long as its in a 4x4.

  17. #53
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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosenvold View Post
    Long before going on my first 4x4 trip, I had been coming to this forum to read about the experiences of others’ vehicle ownership and 4x4 adventures. As I became increasingly enchanted by the idea of hopping in one’s own truck and exploring the wilderness, I began to wonder what the total cost of all of this is. I unfortunately never found an answer and want to use this post to hopefully give some idea to others who may be wondering.
    A few notes up front:

    • I am not mechanically inclined in any way, and have thus not done any work myself
    • I have prioritised keeping the car in great-to-perfect mechanical condition and therefore always taken it to highly recommended mechanics and performed any work they recommended
    • This is sharing bare-bones-and-all; I’m sure I’ve made many mistakes in my ownership, alas that is the cost of being a novice


    The Vehicle

    1999 Landcruiser 105 4.5 EFI that had one previous owner who had used it as a dedicated overlander and fitted it out very well with a rooftop tent, OME 2.5” lift suspension, bulbar, wheel-carrier, additional fuel tank, water tank, full drawer system in the rear incl. 60L brand new fridge & freezer + two-top gas cooker. Whilst heavily used, it had been maintained almost exclusively by a very well-regarded Cape Town mechanic and was in good working condition.
    I bought the above w. ~392k km on the clock for R190k and drove it home to Johannesburg.

    Maintenance Work

    1st Service after ~5k driven by me
    For its first service under my ownership, I took it to a well-known mechanic in Johannesburg. They performed a standard service and changed the bushes. This service cost R28,576. I was quite surprised by this cost as no major work was carried out.

    2nd Service after ~10k driven by me (5k incremental)

    I felt that I had overpaid at the previous service, so I decided to take the truck for work at the mechanic in Cape Town who had always serviced it. It cost me R6,479 to transport the truck on a flat bed. This service included some major work broken down into:

    • Standard service (incl. replaced bushes): R15,512
    • Replacement of ABS pump: R21,800
    • Replacement of rear shocks: R5,230
    • Some welding work on the body: R7,500
    • Total: R50,042 (+R6,479 for transport)


    3rd Service after ~17k driven by me (7k incremental)

    This was a major service with some big repairs and replacements broken down into:

    • Standard service (incl. a long list of minor parts): R14,590
    • New exhaust: R7,874
    • Propshaft: R10,560
    • Knuckles: R9,564
    • Diff: R33,117
    • Axles: R55,145
    • Bodywork (neighbour had dented it…): R21,919
    • Replacing rear airbags with springs: R8,341
    • Total: R161,110 (+R5,369 for transport)


    Fuel

    According to my fuel log, I have driven the vehicle 17k km and spent R46,382 on fuel, which averages out to 5.6 Km/L and R2.7 per Km driven.

    TLDR, Overview

    The odometer is on ~410k km, of which I have driven ~17k, and I have loved every minute of owning this machine and all the adventures it has brought me and my girlfriend. Spend to date has been:

    • Purchase: R190k
    • Maintenance: R240k
    • Transport to maintenance: R12k
    • Fuel: R46k
    • Total: R488k

  18. #54
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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    Wow. That is a rip off. My 2003/4 Troopy 4.5 EFI has now just on 133000km. Total on spare parts is a R5.00 exhaust gasket and one steering knuckle that was popped off by Tiger wheel when doing the alignment. I replaced it as a precausion. Other than that it has only needed regular filters, grease and oil changes which are very easy to do. Oh yes and a new battery in Hwange that lasted 8 years and has just been renewed as well as tyres and one puncture!
    I have a log of every trip and fuel refill and I guess I could add them up but long ago appreciated that a bit more on petrol is more than offset by minimal maintenance and absolute reliability.
    I have done trips to Botswana, Liuwa plains, Gonarezhou, Nambia (including van Zyls), Mozambique, Mana pools and Hwange, Ndumu, Banga neck, Kruger park etc and never had a moment's problem with the truck. It is even big enough to sleep in for quick overnight stops if necessary.

    SWAMBO and I are now getting a bit old for the long tough camping trips and have graduated from a ground tent to a Bushlapa so I am now the reluctant seller of my Troopy. If anyone is really interested in giving her a good home and lots of work please contact me. 0828829966

  19. #55
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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosenvold View Post
    I have always approached the maintenance with the mindset that I wanted a mechanically perfect vehicle, so it may be closer to restoration than standard services. For my first service, I felt cheated. The second service seemed more reasonable in comparison to the first. The third has been a real shock to me and I was surprised this many parts were recommended changing; however, in the spirit of preventative maintenance/ restoration, I was happy to trust the guidance of well-regarded members of this community who recommended it.

    Posting the details of each service below with the names of providers omitted, as I am not looking to name and shame anyone and I genuinly hope/ believe they have not taken me for a ride.
    I had a look at repair cost and it would seem the major expense is parts and there seems to be a repetition of work with the third mechanic, although in all fairness, I could not peruse that bill in to much detail and rely on gist in other posts. Your second mechanic is also my mechanic since 2006. When first I looked at cruisers I took all of the potential cruisers for him to inspect and advise me, that was in 2008, by then I realised a mechanic is like your doctor and dentist. You only get good service if you have a reliable mechanic and stick to him. We went through about 16 of them before he suggested the LC 80 I currently own. Have a look at video of Andrew St Pierre-White. He went through a similar exercise. I bought at 175 and currently am at 470 000km. Major repairs were radiator and gasket and since top was off I serviced the valve stem guides and gasket and service cost was 17 000.00. Think it was somewhere in 2011. Mechanic 2 has full history of work done and whenever I complain about a part he looks at his black book and can tell me when part was replaced. Only issue on thos 80's are radiators and head gasket. That 80 has been to Uganda and back, a 15 000km trip. No service done on trip. No issue with oil usage or radiator water loss. Only replaced brake pads in Rwanda in 2012 at total cost of R800.00 parts included. Still going strong. I hope. You never know.


    NOW, this topic can only be really discussed over bottles of good wine. My advice. Stick to one mechanic, they are like builders, when you have to many on site and things go wrong they blame each other. If only one works on it you can yank his chain and believe me the old mechanics have been around for a long time, they know when they are to be blamed. They also know all the stunts customers can and will pull. Generally the mechanics that are around and recommended by other are good. Obviously they cannot work miracles and even the cruisers will break, the difference is if you fixed it and your mechanic did a good job, you are good for 500 000 km. Plus and this is very important, always, yes always use Toyota parts, do not rely on You Tube mechanics and marketers. I have done enough mileage to advise from experience that whenever I fixed my Toyotas with a part that was manufactured in the factory that also produce for Toyota, I was on the receiving end of problems, be it brake pads or radiators or timing chains, pay the price and stick to Toyota. Well my little bit of wisdom. I still believe that due to my mechanic my vehicle is still top notch. Preventative maintenance being the secret, but it will cost you. The new cruisers are 1.2 million and the problems start at 300 000km. Which is still not to bad. I understand that for some issues to be worked on the body has to come off chassis, when I heard that my 96' 80 started sparkling and I started fixing the interior that looked worse than a farm truck inside. Good luck, you sorted a lot of issues, maybe now you can just start driving and travelling. Still best for Africa as it does not draw attention and that 4.5 is the best, believe me. Only problem is wife, as time goes on she wants something where there is a heated seat and you can travel in silence at 100 km/h. That is not the 80, very Industrial.

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  21. #56
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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    My cost of owning a Prado.
    I own a 2000 Prado 3.0l diesel. (282500km) (Kz) Bought in from first owner in 2005/6 with 80000 on the clock to use as a “bit of the normal road holiday vehicle”. It quickly became my daily driver vehicle also.
    Kept a full record of expenses on an app. To date my total cost of owning the Prado is R369112. This includes fuel.
    On repairs and services:R168851
    This includes everything. Tyers, suspension lift, shocks and springs, (ome),replacement top, power steering and aircon repair, front diff repair, services and general upkeep items and licence fees.
    Fuel cost to date is R200261.
    Equates to 8,46km/lt according to the fuel app
    For the use and places I have been with the Prado I think the expenses was reasonable.
    Maybe you can compare your experience around cost with a similar vehicle and let me know if I am living on “cloud nine” or not!
    Sakkie

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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    20/20 Hindsight is something few of us possess. It's kept in the same drawer as Mechanical skills, and not all of us have been given the key.
    My take on the post is the chap is happy with his purchase, is not too pissed off by the charges being ridiculed by others more aux fait with which end of the hammer has the grip, and above all he is enjoying his purchase. So much so that he is happy to share it with us.
    What the heck is wrong with that? I no longer get my hands dirty. I could do it but prefer to pay somebody else to do it under my supervision and querolous gaze. I take her in once a year and tell "Dave" to fix it up and replace anything that he feels may fall off or break before 'next year'. So far he has done just that for the past 18 years and the Manufacturers "Service" centre has not see me back since she rolled off the plot. Was I wrong?
    So I enjoyed Crosenvold's tale and thank him for it.
    Albert

    Progress might have been alright once, but it has gone on too long.

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  24. #58
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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    OP did you get quotes for the work before it was done or did you approve the work without knowing the potential costs?

    At those prices I would have balked early on, sold the car and rather looked for a better example. When the repais costs are so high relative to the cost of the vehicle itself surely that's uneconomical unless you are committed to a restoration which seems unnecessary in this case due to the availability of replacement examples.

    I suppose it's the classic car guy conundrum: do you buy something that is already good (expensive up front) or do you buy something and make it good (expenses stretched out over years).

    I'm also curious as to why you don't just go to a good Toyota dealership if you are willing to pay those prices OP?

    I'm also interested to know why you decided to invest so heavily in this particular vehicle as it seems as if you could have afforded a better example to begin with given the prices you paid for the work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avanza View Post
    ... is it not easier to hire a 4x4 for trips. And drive a more economical option around town? Saving for your trips? No hassle. No maintenance. No logistics. All the comforts. You can easily save 10l per 100 km. Even more...
    After renting a fully equipped Hilux in Namibia it changed my perspective and I sold my 4x4 to buy a wonderful Honda Jazz as a daily run around. It was the right decision, I have zero regrets since the Jazz is suitable for the driving I do 99% of the time.
    Last edited by chopwet; 2021/04/28 at 10:43 AM.

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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    I've got the 4,5EFI pick up [ex Eskom Cherry picker] 2002 model. It has done 780 000km [I got it at 215k].
    Just replaced front suspension components, front and rear brakes, all bushes [all Toyota] gearbox selectors [2 of 4]
    plus complete service for R48k. I can't believe what you have been charged. They saw you coming, sorry to say.
    PM Me for the name of the guy who does all our work here in KZN [we have several other Toyota pick-ups as well]
    although I would say you need to get out of that thing before you go broke!!
    Cheers, Dave

  26. #60
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    Default Re: Costs of owning a Toyota Landcruiser 105 4.5EFI

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Ross View Post
    20/20 Hindsight is something few of us possess. It's kept in the same drawer as Mechanical skills, and not all of us have been given the key.
    My take on the post is the chap is happy with his purchase, is not too pissed off by the charges being ridiculed by others more aux fait with which end of the hammer has the grip, and above all he is enjoying his purchase. So much so that he is happy to share it with us.
    What the heck is wrong with that? I no longer get my hands dirty. I could do it but prefer to pay somebody else to do it under my supervision and querolous gaze. I take her in once a year and tell "Dave" to fix it up and replace anything that he feels may fall off or break before 'next year'. So far he has done just that for the past 18 years and the Manufacturers "Service" centre has not see me back since she rolled off the plot. Was I wrong?
    So I enjoyed Crosenvold's tale and thank him for it.
    You're spot on in terms of the spirit of this post. This was not a post to complain about what I have been charged; rather it was meant to give a bit of transparency which I never found when I was looking for it. Others will likely save a bit of money by reading this before they go on their own first-time-owner adventure, which is great. For those who got a good laugh out of it, I guess that's a secondary benefit.

    Although I obvioulsy would have preferred to now tell each mechanic not to rebuild the knuckles every few months, I don't particularly regret what I spent. I bought a really well equipped and well-used car, which allowed me to immediately take off on adventures. I should note that I never had any mechanical issues on the road with it, so I don't think it was mis-maintained by previous owner (and 2nd mechanic), but I did have a zero-compromise approach to doing whatever preventative maintenance was recommended. Now it's quite well-restored and will hopefully continue to bring me good times for years to come.

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