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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    Graham, I can't agree with you more. This is very frustrating and seeing people buy bakkie loads/Car boots full just makes me want to stop and explain to them and then "help" unload... The worst part is the wood is not even good quality and still very wet BUT I guess the R10 price tag is what convince people to stop and buy.
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    It is Friday. So just a generic thread bump. If you're heading out somewhere and travelling through Harties, please do not buy wood next to the road...
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  4. #43
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    Quote Originally Posted by iandvl View Post
    It is Friday. So just a generic thread bump. If you're heading out somewhere and travelling through Harties, please do not buy wood next to the road...
    Morning.

    Right, so woods of this type are not exactly indigenous to KZN, especially Durban area, so when we want decent wood we pay silly prices.
    Which does kinda raise the question - Even when I buy locally, at silly prices, how do I know it is legit.

    Although I live in Durban, I spend a lot of time in the Pretoria area. Several times a year I will literally full the back of my Tourneo bus with Sekelbos from those vendors at Harties.

    -------------------------

    My reasoning has always been that they must be legit, simply because their presence is obvious (its not exactly a cloak and dagger transaction), and the packaging is obviously done by some form of semi-automation with industrial plastic packaging. This is in contrast to vendors on the side of the road in KZN where produce is in used Checkers/PicknPay etc bags.

    So how does one know.
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  5. #44
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Morning.

    Right, so woods of this type are not exactly indigenous to KZN, especially Durban area, so when we want decent wood we pay silly prices.
    Which does kinda raise the question - Even when I buy locally, at silly prices, how do I know it is legit.

    Although I live in Durban, I spend a lot of time in the Pretoria area. Several times a year I will literally full the back of my Tourneo bus with Sekelbos from those vendors at Harties.

    -------------------------

    My reasoning has always been that they must be legit, simply because their presence is obvious (its not exactly a cloak and dagger transaction), and the packaging is obviously done by some form of semi-automation with industrial plastic packaging. This is in contrast to vendors on the side of the road in KZN where produce is in used Checkers/PicknPay etc bags.

    So how does one know.
    Good Question
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  6. #45
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    My reasoning has always been that they must be legit, simply because their presence is obvious (its not exactly a cloak and dagger transaction), and the packaging is obviously done by some form of semi-automation with industrial plastic packaging. This is in contrast to vendors on the side of the road in KZN where produce is in used Checkers/PicknPay etc bags.

    So how does one know.
    The only guarantee you would have would be to purchase from a recognised outlet that can authenticate the source, such as an established retailer.

    Unfortunately, there could be legitimate small scale and informal traders who source ethically but unless they can produce such authentication, dont buy. This will either force them to make the effort which in turn increases costs.

    Peace of mind comes with a price tag.
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  7. #46
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Morning.

    Right, so woods of this type are not exactly indigenous to KZN, especially Durban area, so when we want decent wood we pay silly prices.
    Which does kinda raise the question - Even when I buy locally, at silly prices, how do I know it is legit.

    Although I live in Durban, I spend a lot of time in the Pretoria area. Several times a year I will literally full the back of my Tourneo bus with Sekelbos from those vendors at Harties.

    -------------------------

    My reasoning has always been that they must be legit, simply because their presence is obvious (its not exactly a cloak and dagger transaction), and the packaging is obviously done by some form of semi-automation with industrial plastic packaging. This is in contrast to vendors on the side of the road in KZN where produce is in used Checkers/PicknPay etc bags.

    So how does one know.
    Keith,

    The problem with Harties, as previously discussed on this thread, is that there is no political willpower for the powers-that-be to stop the illicit trade in wood. And these guys are killing the Magalies biosphere. Also, with the amount of money pouring in, I'm pretty sure the people running this trade have got bagging plants in the informal settlements at ten-rooms etc. I had a link somewhere in terms of how much the illegal wood trade in Harties is per month. I cannot find the link at the moment, but the sum was huge.

    As has already been pointed out in this thread, and the point that you raise, many people buy this wood because it looks legit and it is done so brazenly. Because of that, everybody assumes it is legitimate. It is not, and people have to be made aware of this fact. And this is the reason for my thread - awareness.

    In terms of "legal wood". I'm lucky in that I lived in the Brits area for a considerable period of time. I know where to source wood there at good prices, and also that which is legally and sustainably obtained. I normally buy wood from specific businesses in Brits, and three businesses in Pretoria. I know where the wood comes from. In terms of Brits - I know the owners of those businesses, and I know where they get the wood. Its legal. In terms of Pretoria, I've asked the folk where the wood comes from, and they have been very frank with me. I believe the sources of the wood are legal. I don't buy wood from informal traders next to the road. In most cases, I don't believe that they were the original owners of the wood. And in other places (up North in KZN, for example), although the traders are probably the legal owners of the wood, there is absolutely no way the amount of wood they are hauling out and selling next to the road can be sustainable. Not there, at any rate.

    Anyways, the reason for this thread is to make people aware of the fact that the wood next to the road in Harties, despite looking perfectly legit, is actually a problem. A massive one.

    If you would like to check my sources on this, the issue has previously been reported on by Carte Blanche. You can also do a Google for hartbeespoort illegal wood trade and get a heck of a lot of information about that there.

    So, coming back to my point, do not buy wood next to the road in Harties.
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  9. #47
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    Who ever buys from them are also supporting the illegal imagrants mostly.

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  11. #48
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    Thanks Ian.

    And ITS NOT EVEN SEKELBOS. Do we even have sekelbos trees in harties?

    Its the poor Karee trees theyre selling. All that wood does is smoke cos theyve cut the trees yesterday and selling them today.

    One day when Im big Im going to put up a huge billboard here saying dont buy the wood!
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    I'm not doubting anybody's word here. If you say it is a big problem, I take your word at face value.

    How does one extrapolate this out to Mangoes, and Grapes, and Avo's, etc etc.

    On the one hand you may be supporting an elicit trade, on the other hand you may be feeding a family legitimately.

    -----------------------------------------------

    There is a Caltex garage on the corner of Solomon Mahlangu and Cradock Ave next to Theo's, can I buy wood there. I visit Theo's for Ladies Russian and Chips a few times a month.
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  13. #50
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    I'm not doubting anybody's word here. If you say it is a big problem, I take your word at face value.

    How does one extrapolate this out to Mangoes, and Grapes, and Avo's, etc etc.

    On the one hand you may be supporting an elicit trade, on the other hand you may be feeding a family legitimately.

    -----------------------------------------------

    There is a Caltex garage on the corner of Solomon Mahlangu and Cradock Ave next to Theo's, can I buy wood there. I visit Theo's for Ladies Russian and Chips a few times a month.
    I was chatting with Jakes (aka Jelo) just now. Apparently the wood cutting syndicate in Harties is run by a Mnungu. He buys the wood from the informal settlement at ten-rooms, packages it and delivers it to the sellers. He is often seen, but has some arrangement with the SAPS.

    I'm not sure of where Theo's is. I also don't see an intersection of Solomon Mahlangu and Cradock. The places where I buy my wood in Pretoria are:

    The Total garage in Solomon Mahlangu opposite Waterskloof Highschool.
    The Engen garage on the corner of Solomon Mahlangu and Atterbury.
    A place around the corner from where I stay in Garsfontein.
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  14. #51
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    I'm not doubting anybody's word here. If you say it is a big problem, I take your word at face value.

    How does one extrapolate this out to Mangoes, and Grapes, and Avo's, etc etc.

    On the one hand you may be supporting an elicit trade, on the other hand you may be feeding a family legitimately.

    -----------------------------------------------

    There is a Caltex garage on the corner of Solomon Mahlangu and Cradock Ave next to Theo's, can I buy wood there. I visit Theo's for Ladies Russian and Chips a few times a month.
    No. Avos next to road is never legitimate
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  16. #52
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Morning.

    Right, so woods of this type are not exactly indigenous to KZN, especially Durban area, so when we want decent wood we pay silly prices.
    Which does kinda raise the question - Even when I buy locally, at silly prices, how do I know it is legit.

    Although I live in Durban, I spend a lot of time in the Pretoria area. Several times a year I will literally full the back of my Tourneo bus with Sekelbos from those vendors at Harties.

    -------------------------

    My reasoning has always been that they must be legit, simply because their presence is obvious (its not exactly a cloak and dagger transaction), and the packaging is obviously done by some form of semi-automation with industrial plastic packaging. This is in contrast to vendors on the side of the road in KZN where produce is in used Checkers/PicknPay etc bags.

    So how does one know.
    The struggle is real. Here in KZN we are not exactly spoilt for choice when it comes to "proper" wood.
    When I'm up in that part of the world, I always try and bring some wood down.

    So any comments on those informal traders sitting outside the gates at Marloth Park or on the road to Komati? Are they legit and should I be buying from them? I brought home bags and bags last year Dec. Finished my last pieces the other day.
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  17. #53
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    Quote Originally Posted by Reenen View Post
    No. Avos next to road is never legitimate
    Neither are the apples next to the road at Grabouw.
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  19. #54
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    I'm not doubting anybody's word here. If you say it is a big problem, I take your word at face value.

    How does one extrapolate this out to Mangoes, and Grapes, and Avo's, etc etc.

    On the one hand you may be supporting an elicit trade, on the other hand you may be feeding a family legitimately.

    -----------------------------------------------

    There is a Caltex garage on the corner of Solomon Mahlangu and Cradock Ave next to Theo's, can I buy wood there. I visit Theo's for Ladies Russian and Chips a few times a month.
    Howzit Fluffy am also a Theo's patron. Just down the road in Valhalla is the guy that has a business selling wood from his house. Trying to find the address for you.

    Here it is posted by Jakoos: I use a guy in Valhalla, prices and wood types differs from time to time but the nice part is that he sends out "wassaps" on what he has available at what prices. But, I buy 50 bags at a time as soon as I see my current stock getting low and the last time I bought dry sekelbos at R11.50 a bag. You can call Immanuel at 087 818 4903 - name and number provided with his permission.
    Last edited by Sneaky Pete; 2021/06/18 at 10:24 AM.
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  21. #55
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    Quote Originally Posted by Reenen View Post
    No. Avos next to road is never legitimate
    My understanding from ZZ2 (which produces tons of tomatoes an avos), is that they sell to informal traders that then on-sells their products from their bakkies in the townships. i.e. not all of their produce goes by truckload to SPAR. It is a big business and effectively employs more than a 100,000 people, and feeds many more.
    What would stop that same entrepeneur from selling from the road?

    I am not convinced that it is necessarily always illegitimate.

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    Default Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    I'm not doubting anybody's word here. If you say it is a big problem, I take your word at face value.

    How does one extrapolate this out to Mangoes, and Grapes, and Avo's, etc etc.

    On the one hand you may be supporting an elicit trade, on the other hand you may be feeding a family legitimately.

    -----------------------------------------------

    There is a Caltex garage on the corner of Solomon Mahlangu and Cradock Ave next to Theo's, can I buy wood there. I visit Theo's for Ladies Russian and Chips a few times a month.
    Double post
    Last edited by Reenen; 2021/06/18 at 10:24 AM.
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  23. #57
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    Quote Originally Posted by Patroller View Post
    My understanding from ZZ2 (which produces tons of tomatoes an avos), is that they sell to informal traders that then on-sells their products from their bakkies in the townships. i.e. not all of their produce goes by truckload to SPAR. It is a big business and effectively employs more than a 100,000 people, and feeds many more.
    What would stop that same entrepeneur from selling from the road?

    I am not convinced that it is necessarily always illegitimate.



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  25. #58
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    Quote Originally Posted by Reenen View Post
    No. Avos next to road is never legitimate
    Reenen,avo's langs die pad kan wettig wees.Baie pakhuise stuur avo's in sakke mark toe,wat deur informele smouse gekoop word en langs die pad verkoop word in kleiner verpakking(Gauteng).Gewoonlik kan jy sien of dit gesteel is deur te let of daar stingel ente is.Boere knip die vrugte af.maar diewe pluk net af en daar is geen stingel ent.
    Nie altyd maklik om te onderskei nie.Ek woon in 'n produksie area en koop slegs by pakhuise of erkende stalletjies.Stedelinge het nie daai opsie nie.
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  26. #59
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    Die ou met winkelsak langs pad het hulle gesteel. Hou verby
    Vrywaring: Niks wat ek hier kwyt raak moet hoegenaamd as feite beskou word nie.

  27. #60
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    Default Re: Wood in Hartbeespoort - Don't Buy Next to the Road

    Here's my stash. At any point in time the wood I am using is 2-3 years old. This batch bought from a vendor in Hillcrest at R25.00 a bag.

    Probably about 100 - 150 bags of wood there. Difficult to see. Wood in the shade under the concrete seats.

    -----------------------------------------------------------

    Good'ol SA. A mix of entrepreneurship, need, greed, wealth and poverty.

    OK Ian's thread has had some nice traction this morning.
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