2010 Defender 2.4 110 - Flat sopt or intermittent power loss

[scottdurban]

great stuff, thanks for sharing the results!

Bad news - it's back... Weather dropped considerably today. I wonder if this is a combination of boost leak and fault MAF & MAP... Would make sense with atmospheric pressure changes throwing the system out.

Dont get me wrong, VCV needed to change - as the driving characteristics improved - but there is still something throwing it, and its so intermittent.

Why I feel this way, instead of jumping straight to injectors, is that she is either silky smooth to drive, or a bag of spanners. Was worst drive since the VCV replacement. Stop started during the journey to get the turbo back...

I'm wanting to open her up this weekend, test intercooler and pipes - it's not a quick job, so this is definitely kid and wife dependent. Definitely need to get myself a code reader that can pick up all DTC's

Anything more I'm going to have to book her in and see what can be gained from the warranty. Recently had the aircon condenser done under that. I perhaps could've had the VCV done under there, but was unsure, and was a little desperate I might add...

[D-tox]

other than the boost pipe that gave those symptoms, I also had the same issues with my turbo actuator harness.

was intermitted limp mode now and again till the wire completely broke off

read here

https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum...light=actuator

[scottdurban]

other than the boost pipe that gave those symptoms, I also had the same issues with my turbo actuator harness.

was intermitted limp mode now and again till the wire completely broke off

read here

https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum...light=actuator

Thanks D-tox
Will see if LP4A has one - will do some visual inspection first - but this kind've makes sense though - still not happy with the boost leak that squeals every now and then...

[ClaudeG]

Hi Scott,

I wonder if the EGR is actually closed? If you had an Ultra Gauge or something similar you would be able to check that the flow is in fact 0%. EGRs at sea level do create weird flats spots, I've experienced it myself many times, maybe not to your extent though. A gauge could also show you if you have any DTC codes due to sensors being out of range etc.

Take the first boost pipe off and inspect it properly. If that's ok, then inspect the intercooler for leaks. You will see oil stains near any leaks, and sometimes even sprayed back onto the radiator. You can remove the fan cowling and look at the back of the radiator, probably the easiest way. I recall you saying you've already replaced the second boost pipe.

The fact that its related to weather (pressure changes), i don't think its the turbo actuator, but rather fuel and air, and the ECU adjusting these ratios, based on inputs from sensor and the EGR! :-)

[scottdurban]

Hi Scott,

I wonder if the EGR is actually closed? If you had an Ultra Gauge or something similar you would be able to check that the flow is in fact 0%. EGRs at sea level do create weird flats spots, I've experienced it myself many times, maybe not to your extent though. A gauge could also show you if you have any DTC codes due to sensors being out of range etc.

Take the first boost pipe off and inspect it properly. If that's ok, then inspect the intercooler for leaks. You will see oil stains near any leaks, and sometimes even sprayed back onto the radiator. You can remove the fan cowling and look at the back of the radiator, probably the easiest way. I recall you saying you've already replaced the second boost pipe.

The fact that its related to weather (pressure changes), i don't think its the turbo actuator, but rather fuel and air, and the ECU adjusting these ratios, based on inputs from sensor and the EGR! :-)

thanks Claude, this is super helpful! Bit of a hectic weekend, so wasn’t able to check her out. But whilst planning some new air box routing, I spotted the following on the back of the lid on the air box. Some Nigel, cut the box lid, presumably because they battled to fit it back? Either way, this makes complete sense regarding my odd intake noises.... plan now is to remove the airbox, replace with a more direct route from the side or wing top, and fit an Donaldson like filter instead, perhaps even a k&n type. Will keep you all posted... for now, I just need to seal it because of all the dust that is now pulling straight into the engine, bypassing the flippen filter!!!!

you’ll see the red of the filter top in the pic. So irritated

I did think EGR might not be closing properly after the software delete, but I’ll need to address that, if so, after addressing the airbox lid...

thanks for the tips regarding the intercooler. Will let you guys know as soon as I do.

[scottdurban]

thanks Claude, this is super helpful! Bit of a hectic weekend, so wasn’t able to check her out. But whilst planning some new air box routing, I spotted the following on the back of the lid on the air box. Some Nigel, cut the box lid, presumably because they battled to fit it back? Either way, this makes complete sense regarding my odd intake noises.... plan now is to remove the airbox, replace with a more direct route from the side or wing top, and fit an Donaldson like filter instead, perhaps even a k&n type. Will keep you all posted... for now, I just need to seal it because of all the dust that is now pulling straight into the engine, bypassing the flippen filter!!!!

you’ll see the red of the filter top in the pic. So irritated

I did think EGR might not be closing properly after the software delete, but I’ll need to address that, if so, after addressing the airbox lid...

thanks for the tips regarding the intercooler. Will let you guys know as soon as I do.

WAIT!

Perhaps I'm the Nigel - looks like that bit of filter showing is standard - visible in the pic from the attached link (https://www.lrparts.net/lr031342-air...a-engines.html)

Bit crazy though, since it does not look flush, should've tested with paper when I had the wing top cover off... Oh well there's always another day. Any how, I am still wanting to reroute the intake to a more direct approach. If I get the recipe right, I'll gladly make together some kits if anyone is interested.

[ClaudeG]

Yes thanks would interested to see the intake mod when you done!

If you were closer id just borrow you my Ultragauge for while, could have also just swopped sensors around to troubleshoot. If you can find another 2.4 try do that, id start with the MAP sensor.

Cheers
Claude

[scottdurban]

Yes thanks would interested to see the intake mod when you done!

If you were closer id just borrow you my Ultragauge for while, could have also just swopped sensors around to troubleshoot. If you can find another 2.4 try do that, id start with the MAP sensor.

Cheers
Claude

Thanks Claude, yes, needing to find a twin down here in DBN. Your plan makes the most sense - swop like for like and see what happens before spending more dosh. I do have the extended warranty to lean on, but would like to guide the workshop before hand - if that makes sense. Does anyone know, regarding the recall, that I can just book at LR, and ask for the recall/service advisory/bulletin(whatever) to be actioned, if it hasn't been?

I am suspecting MAP too - among all the other parts pointed out like harness, etc etc. Main reason is I coasted down Fields hill this morning, using now power at all. Once I reached the bottom, and it eases out, I applied throttle, and it was already in limp - this is after 5 minutes of driving, so I suspect it's atmospheric - your sometimes have to "click" your ears after coming down the hill, so I'm suspecting it's not knowing how to deal with the sudden change of pressure.

Will keep you all posted - on a side note - limp mode is that much more bearable with the new VCV, such a nicer drive, so just can't wait to have her ticking over at best - I don't think I've actually driven her in her prime!

[scottdurban]

Another update - haven't driven her in a while - hasn't thrown limp today, tried to not coast as much on my drive to work - so I'm suspecting MAP/MAF and or boost leak.

Hoping Christmas shopping doesn't kill my repair budget...

Once something changes, I'll let you all know!

[Max Lange]

Was reading the thread, there may be some similarities to the issue I found, in my case it was the actuator. I had had the turbo reconditioned but only after the fact realized that it was tested on the flow bench using the faulty actuator.
When driving along, engine not straining around 100km/h, motor sounding sweet (as sweet that a diesel can), just touch the throttle and presto limp mode, no errors, just limp mode. Thats when I connected the scanner, recorded the values and finally figured out it was over boosting. Replaced the actuator with a used one from a broken turbo, I then also slotted the mounting holes (actuator) so that I can fine-tune the actuator, very limiting but did work. Helps been able to record the values while driving.

[scottdurban]

Was reading the thread, there may be some similarities to the issue I found, in my case it was the actuator. I had had the turbo reconditioned but only after the fact realized that it was tested on the flow bench using the faulty actuator.
When driving along, engine not straining around 100km/h, motor sounding sweet (as sweet that a diesel can), just touch the throttle and presto limp mode, no errors, just limp mode. Thats when I connected the scanner, recorded the values and finally figured out it was over boosting. Replaced the actuator with a used one from a broken turbo, I then also slotted the mounting holes (actuator) so that I can fine-tune the actuator, very limiting but did work. Helps been able to record the values while driving.

Max - this must be it! Thank you for the detail - let me explain.

Since changing the VCV, in the last 800km (I filled up 100l the night I changed the VCV, so it was an easy yard stick to gauge against), I have only thrown limp twice. Each time, was from the most pedestrian driving. The first limp, can't really remember what and where, but it wasn't anything memorable - was when she was definitely re-learning (@all reading this, sorry I haven't taken her in yet) - regarding the learn, I would recommend to anyone wanting to replace the VCV to do this, as you'd get immediate results, instead of waiting for her to figure herself out.

The 2nd, came under exactly the same conditions described by Max above: "When driving along, engine not straining around 100km/h, motor sounding sweet (as sweet that a diesel can), just touch the throttle and presto limp mode, no errors, just limp mode."

Have some time off coming up, so hoping to check out the actuator loom correctly, testing fixing etc. In which case I will try in the new year taking her in for the loom recall everyone has mentioned here. Otherwise I may have to find a new actuator.

However @Max - what do you mean by the following: "I then also slotted the mounting holes (actuator) so that I can fine-tune the actuator"?

Thanks to all the members for the advice again - hoping to get her running as sweet as the day she was born, but without all bit's that make her a lemon(shame its a term of endearment now- almost!)

[scottdurban]

Got a report back from the workshop - the only code present was the 0234 Overboost/underboost.

Mechanic did more fiddling, testing, then manually operated the turbo detached from the actuator and could then hear the turbo working properly and freely - so I reckon I'm looking at Max's message, actuator is where its at.

New turbo complete from LP4A is 12750 plus VAT. Warranty covers me for 12k - so the difference and labour would be something like what, 3k?

Anybody have any leads on an actuator?

[Max Lange]

I wasn't able to purchase a new actuator, even contacted the manufacturer direct who in turn gave me a whole nonsense explanation why it cannot be sold separately, just a money making racket. My local indy had a broken turbo, purchased it and used that actuator, then purchased a new core and rebuilt the broken turbo. Now I have a spare on the shelf

BTW if you do replace the turbo, replace the cooling oil feed pipe at the same time, it will fail soon after working on the turbo.

Best of luck.

[scottdurban]

I wasn't able to purchase a new actuator, even contacted the manufacturer direct who in turn gave me a whole nonsense explanation why it cannot be sold separately, just a money making racket. My local indy had a broken turbo, purchased it and used that actuator, then purchased a new core and rebuilt the broken turbo. Now I have a spare on the shelf

BTW if you do replace the turbo, replace the cooling oil feed pipe at the same time, it will fail soon after working on the turbo.

Best of luck.

thanks Max! I’m considering sourcing an actuator to keep. Then replace the turbo, and recondition the old, as you’re saying… will bear in mind the cooling oil pipe.

[scottdurban]

thanks Max! I’m considering sourcing an actuator to keep. Then replace the turbo, and recondition the old, as you’re saying… will bear in mind the cooling oil pipe.

Actuator sourced - going to fit tonight - will let you all how it goes! Thanks go out to Walter from LRXtreme for fantastic service!

[D-tox]

Actuator sourced - going to fit tonight - will let you all how it goes! Thanks go out to Walter from LRXtreme for fantastic service!

great stuff, cant wait to hear the outcome!
Walter, Org and the team are magic!

[scottdurban]

Spoke too soon... There was some miscomm re the actuator - the one received is for the 2.2, and I have a 2.4...

Back to sourcing another.

[scottdurban]

Spoke too soon... There was some miscomm re the actuator - the one received is for the 2.2, and I have a 2.4...

Back to sourcing another.

Hi guys,

Looks like we are all sorted - got a brand new actuator from Wallace Turbo's in Pinetown. They did a diagnostic and replaced actuator with new for R2800 incl VAT.

I was going to go the new turbo route through warranty - but I was really concerned about spending 7600 to find out it wasn't that, then carry on hunting...

It's a smoother ride, better/even power delivery. It's not a jet engine, but I haven't been able to throw limp, and there is no weird accelration characteristic at 3000rpm under load (this is something I thought was to do with de-laminated boost pipe, so did not consider it a part of this).

There is still a turbo squeak noise, but its not so comical anymore, so I think the vanes are operating correctly now - again, the power delivery is much more even.

I'm due my normal work commute tomorrow where I could almost always throw a limp - so will report back after that, but so far so good!

Handiest thing out of this is that you can get actuator's new without having to purchase the whole turbo!

[D-tox]

Handiest thing out of this is that you can get actuator's new without having to purchase the whole turbo!

Glad you are sorted, and thinks for this info!!

[scottdurban]

Glad you are sorted, and thinks for this info!!

Ahhh I'm back - so the actuator definitely needed replacing, but issues started surfacing again. It's with Tuneserv at the moment for a service - but they're looking at everything - so think of me when they do the final invoice....