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  1. #181
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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    As to older vehicles vs newer ones:
    As mentioned before, those older Patrols and Cruisers were designed "by hand" and to last. The priority was longevity and in many areas those kind of 4x4s are what people call over engineered, rather safe than sorry.
    These days weight plays a major role, since any extra KG expresses itself in CO2 and other emissions. Vehicle parts are made to be just strong enough, margins are still there, but thanks to advanced computer aided design abilities, these margins have become smaller since engineering is able to calculate more accurately.

    Apart from that, to me it is well worth while to have a those inline 6 cylinder engines overhauled. When done properly, it can cost around 50-100% of the value of the entire vehicle, unless you can do it yourself.
    But, I rather spend 90k on the overhaul of my 2F engine and know the rest of the vehicle and it's ailments or rather lack of those, than try and find a reliable 4x4 for that money.

    Btw, I had that 2F engine overhauled 11 years ago for around 30% of the Cruise's value back then.
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  3. #182
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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    Regso Reenen. Ek sukkel ook maar elke dag met SFA as daily's

    Interesant is die revs van die 4.2 dit is basies dieselfde as V8 Cruiser.

    As ek 'n 4.2 turbo diesel Patrol moet koop sal ek glad nie aan sy enjin karring nie.
    Dink hulle is goed genoeg standaard. As jy te kwaai aan hul torring moet jy met een oog op EGT Guage ry en dit is nie vir my nie.
    Na n harde ry, toe ek afdraai van teer af, het ek netnou gou my egt log getrek.


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  5. #183
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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    Al die gepraatery oor Patrols laat my nou sommer wonder oor hulle. Sal seker n ideale "forever 3rd voertuig" wees en as hulle gaan op tel in waarde kan mens dit seker maar oor lank finansier ook, of dalk moet ek net n stok kry om itch te scratch


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  7. #184
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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    So I did the sensible thing today and test drove a 4.8 GRX Patrol with about 390k km on the clock. First impressions are as follows:

    Likes:

    - Looks like a truck, drives like a truck, feels like a truck.
    - Pretty responsive engine, not quick by any stretch of the imagination, but doesn't feel like a dead donkey.
    - Big interior room and comfy ride.
    - Nice commanding view of the road.
    - Comfortable.
    - Looks to have held up very well considering the age of the vehicle.
    - Exhaust note pleases my ears.
    - All the capability and clout that comes with a Patrol.
    - Seems to be an absolutely perfect holiday vehicle for a larger family.

    Cons:

    - Seems really impractical as a daily drive for my personal use case, even though I am sure it will put a smile on my face most days.
    - It is pretty huge, so mall parking lots will be challenging especially for SWAMBO (kinda refers back to point 1)
    - Fuel cost will be astronomical compared to what I am used to - by all accounts quite a bit worse than my V8 Jeep was. (22/l100Km is the manufacturer claim for in town, I am sure we will get some personal experience feedback soon).
    - Very expensive for the age and mileage combo, which pretty much excludes it as a practical 3rd car/holiday vehicle for me. (this will depend a lot on what your personal financial situation is naturally).
    - This particular model will definitely need a number of bushes and suspension components replaced as well as Diff lock didn't want to engage. Pretty sure none of these are show stoppers, but needs to be taken into consideration.
    - Apparently the head on this car was redone due to leaking valve stem seals, it seemed to be in good shape and drove well, but this is the first one I drove so didn't have any thing else to compare it to.

    In conclusion, I was pleasantly surprised by how well a car of this age and mileage has kept up, I was not surprised by how enjoyable I found the driving experience. Yes it feels truly Japannese as can be expected, which is neither a good or a bad thing it just depends on taste really. Even though there is a substantial pro's list I am not sure that I could justify such a vehicle for my use on a cost basis, I kinda hope that changes in the future as I like the idea a lot. I would probably like a newer model even more and I would like to kit it over time (one of the items I really enjoyed on the Jeep was customising it to my own taste), but newer models are just far far to expensive for me at this stage.

    Those are my impressions, hope it adds some value to the discussion!


    '12 Audi Q5 3.0 TDi quattro stock standard

    '07 VW Touareg (T2) 3.0 V6 TDi (BKS), Air Suspension, Centre and Rear diff locks, DeCAT, 265-65R17 muds - Sold

    '01 Jeep WJ Limited 4.7 V8 with some bits - Sold
    '83 Range Rover Classic 3dr 3.5 V8 Rust bucket - Sold

  8. #185
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    Default Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    Quote Originally Posted by Commander View Post
    So I did the sensible thing today and test drove a 4.8 GRX Patrol with about 390k km on the clock. First impressions are as follows:

    Likes:

    - Looks like a truck, drives like a truck, feels like a truck.
    - Pretty responsive engine, not quick by any stretch of the imagination, but doesn't feel like a dead donkey.
    - Big interior room and comfy ride.
    - Nice commanding view of the road.
    - Comfortable.
    - Looks to have held up very well considering the age of the vehicle.
    - Exhaust note pleases my ears.
    - All the capability and clout that comes with a Patrol.
    - Seems to be an absolutely perfect holiday vehicle for a larger family.

    Cons:

    - Seems really impractical as a daily drive for my personal use case, even though I am sure it will put a smile on my face most days.
    - It is pretty huge, so mall parking lots will be challenging especially for SWAMBO (kinda refers back to point 1)
    - Fuel cost will be astronomical compared to what I am used to - by all accounts quite a bit worse than my V8 Jeep was. (22/l100Km is the manufacturer claim for in town, I am sure we will get some personal experience feedback soon).
    - Very expensive for the age and mileage combo, which pretty much excludes it as a practical 3rd car/holiday vehicle for me. (this will depend a lot on what your personal financial situation is naturally).
    - This particular model will definitely need a number of bushes and suspension components replaced as well as Diff lock didn't want to engage. Pretty sure none of these are show stoppers, but needs to be taken into consideration.
    - Apparently the head on this car was redone due to leaking valve stem seals, it seemed to be in good shape and drove well, but this is the first one I drove so didn't have any thing else to compare it to.

    In conclusion, I was pleasantly surprised by how well a car of this age and mileage has kept up, I was not surprised by how enjoyable I found the driving experience. Yes it feels truly Japannese as can be expected, which is neither a good or a bad thing it just depends on taste really. Even though there is a substantial pro's list I am not sure that I could justify such a vehicle for my use on a cost basis, I kinda hope that changes in the future as I like the idea a lot. I would probably like a newer model even more and I would like to kit it over time (one of the items I really enjoyed on the Jeep was customising it to my own taste), but newer models are just far far to expensive for me at this stage.

    Those are my impressions, hope it adds some value to the discussion!
    So looking on Carfind, I found what I assume is the one you test drove. Looking at other options in the same price range there are the following vehicles. Your Patrol 2005, 390k km, Prado 2006(v6) 253k km, Pajero 2009, 194k km, Fortuner 2011(v6) 225k km, Ford Everest 2014 136k km, Pajero Sport 2010 128k km. All in what seem to be fair condition buying from what seem to be reputable dealerships.

    Given the possibility of repairs, fuel consumption and having to use a vehicle as a daily driver, which would be the best choice?

    I would probably opt for the Ford, Pajero Sport and Prado in that order.

    I don't subscribe to the "Cruisers, Patrol's, Prado's, Fortuner's, and Pajero's are made of steel and everything else is made of paper" school of theory. Every vehicle will require maintenance, the higher the mileage and age the higher probability of maintenance items to be paid for.
    Last edited by Hooly; 2021/04/08 at 06:52 PM.
    Louis Adendorff
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  10. #186
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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    self deleted
    Last edited by Francois Theron; 2021/04/08 at 06:32 PM.
    There is never a right time to do the wrong thing and never a wrong time to do the right thing!

  11. #187
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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    I drive 2 Patrols.

    A 2000 model TD42 2" lift and big wheels as my daily drive now at 857000km. - love the commanding feeling no matter what road traffic etc. Especially the intimidation factor when those youngsters with their Golfs and Polos try to take gaps. Even Taxis show respect. Average 7.9km/l (used to be above 8)

    A 2014 model ZD30 CRD stock standard bought 16months ago as my new long distance and leisure/camping vehicle. Average 8.6km/l

    Absolutely love them.....

    Does it feel like a truck..possibly. but I drove a Hyundaiayithing LDV the other day. That feels like a truck. Why they sell I have no idea, I would use a normal LDV rather.

    Service and routine maintenance costs on these vehicles are very reasonable. Breakdown repairs non existent...

    Best 4x4 for your bucks in my opinion, but best all rounder - well that depends on personal expectations....


    Insurance dirt cheap relative to others....maybe not on the affirmative shopping lists.

    On my wish list...the ZD30 CRD LDV
    Last edited by Dungbeetle; 2021/04/08 at 07:49 PM.
    Don’t blame yourself over past mistakes. It’s like driving down the N1 while looking in the rear view mirror only.

    2000 Patrol GU 4.2D(onkey) "old-timer" chugging along towards 900 000 km.
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  12. #188
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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    Sorry should have skipped the thread
    Last edited by grips; 2021/04/08 at 09:38 PM.

  13. #189
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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooly View Post

    Given the possibility of repairs, fuel consumption and having to use a vehicle as a daily driver, which would be the best choice?

    ...

    Sorry I haven't read the whole thread, just jumped in on the last page, so apologies if I'm answering the wrong question.

    Do you need this as a daily driver and also for long trips?

    You can't go wrong with a jap turbo diesel, really. Unless you need/like petrol?

    An old D4D can take a lot of abuse and pretty much anyone can work on it, cheap parts...

  14. #190
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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    Quote Originally Posted by tashtego9 View Post
    Sorry I haven't read the whole thread, just jumped in on the last page, so apologies if I'm answering the wrong question.

    Do you need this as a daily driver and also for long trips?

    You can't go wrong with a jap turbo diesel, really. Unless you need/like petrol?

    An old D4D can take a lot of abuse and pretty much anyone can work on it, cheap parts...
    Not for me, but those were the OP's requirements, and he is in the NC so something like a Jeep or Landrover would probably not be a good idea due to a lack of service support.
    Louis Adendorff
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  16. #191
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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooly View Post
    So looking on Carfind, I found what I assume is the one you test drove. Looking at other options in the same price range there are the following vehicles. Your Patrol 2005, 390k km, Prado 2006(v6) 253k km, Pajero 2009, 194k km, Fortuner 2011(v6) 225k km, Ford Everest 2014 136k km, Pajero Sport 2010 128k km. All in what seem to be fair condition buying from what seem to be reputable dealerships.

    Given the possibility of repairs, fuel consumption and having to use a vehicle as a daily driver, which would be the best choice?

    I would probably opt for the Ford, Pajero Sport and Prado in that order.

    I don't subscribe to the "Cruisers, Patrol's, Prado's, Fortuner's, and Pajero's are made of steel and everything else is made of paper" school of theory. Every vehicle will require maintenance, the higher the mileage and age the higher probability of maintenance items to be paid for.
    Thanks for the input. As always I can only speak from my own experience. I have test driven a Pajero Sport, Prado and Fortuner. I have lived with a Pajero for about a week. None of those vehicles impressed me at all and I wouldn't consider owning any of them, they just don't blow my hair back. The new shape Everest seems to be my go to from this list. That being said I have owned 2 Ford's personally and many in the family and dealer service had been abysmal, which puts me off Ford unless you don't use agents for service/repairs.

    From 4x4's I have owned here is my experience:
    - RR Classic, really was permanently broken, and a money pit. I would have had to basically rebuild it from scratch to get anywhere close to reliable. My mistake as I didn't do my homework before buying.
    - Jeep WJ, really was a fantastic vehicle, only basically had minor issues and a some stuff that was due to mods I did (front prop angle for example). I still miss it and the only reason for selling was due to it being used less and less as a result of the high fuel consumption.
    - Touareg, also a very good all-rounder, unfortunately mine had most of the know issues despite me doing my utmost to shop around and find a good example. Some you win, some you lose I guess. That being said I have contact with the new owner and it seems all the stuff I fixed is holding up and the car is reliable for him, maybe I should have just kept it after doing all the repairs...

    I realise my requirement in a vehicle is probably quite different to what most people require and this is just my own perspective.


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  18. #192
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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooly View Post
    So looking on Carfind, I found what I assume is the one you test drove. Looking at other options in the same price range there are the following vehicles. Your Patrol 2005, 390k km, Prado 2006(v6) 253k km, Pajero 2009, 194k km, Fortuner 2011(v6) 225k km, Ford Everest 2014 136k km, Pajero Sport 2010 128k km. All in what seem to be fair condition buying from what seem to be reputable dealerships.

    Given the possibility of repairs, fuel consumption and having to use a vehicle as a daily driver, which would be the best choice?

    I would probably opt for the Ford, Pajero Sport and Prado in that order.

    I don't subscribe to the "Cruisers, Patrol's, Prado's, Fortuner's, and Pajero's are made of steel and everything else is made of paper" school of theory. Every vehicle will require maintenance, the higher the mileage and age the higher probability of maintenance items to be paid for.
    There is one important item I forgot to mention, and due to age the Patrol (and a couple of others from your list) can't be financed via standard motor finance which will be a major hurdle for a lot of people. And sure there are always ways and means, but I would list that as a drawback.


    '12 Audi Q5 3.0 TDi quattro stock standard

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  19. #193
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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    Quote Originally Posted by Commander View Post
    There is one important item I forgot to mention, and due to age the Patrol (and a couple of others from your list) can't be financed via standard motor finance which will be a major hurdle for a lot of people. And sure there are always ways and means, but I would list that as a drawback.
    That is very true, I know you can sometimes use finance in the form of a personal loan, but I think interest rates are high.
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  21. #194
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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooly View Post
    That is very true, I know you can sometimes use finance in the form of a personal loan, but I think interest rates are high.
    Of the ones I mentioned the 2014 Everest is probably the only one that will qualify.
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  23. #195
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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooly View Post
    That is very true, I know you can sometimes use finance in the form of a personal loan, but I think interest rates are high.
    Other option is flexi home loan, but a lot of people don't have access to that. I looked at a personal loan when I bought the Jeep (bank advised me ), interest rates were on par with a credit card, I am sure this will depend on the applicant, but a R200k personal loan seems extreme...


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  24. #196
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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    Quote Originally Posted by Commander View Post
    ... None of those vehicles impressed me at all and I wouldn't consider owning any of them, they just don't blow my hair back...
    Sometimes those vehicles that blow your hair back can also blow large craters in your wallet and cause you a lot of stress.

    It's a bit like dating the hottest girl in the school. it comes at a cost...

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  26. #197
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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    Quote Originally Posted by tashtego9 View Post
    It's a bit like dating the hottest girl in the school. it comes at a cost...
    I would not advise anyone on this forum to date a school girl, no matter how hot she is.
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  28. #198
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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    Wat is nog maklik finansierbaar vandag? 2006 en op?
    Vrywaring: Niks wat ek hier kwyt raak moet hoegenaamd as feite beskou word nie.

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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    Quote Originally Posted by Reenen View Post
    Wat is nog maklik finansierbaar vandag? 2006 en op?
    Niks, dis die probleem, maar jy kan n "lesser" nuwer voertuig kry vir daai geld en wel finansier, soos B.V. die Everest.


    '12 Audi Q5 3.0 TDi quattro stock standard

    '07 VW Touareg (T2) 3.0 V6 TDi (BKS), Air Suspension, Centre and Rear diff locks, DeCAT, 265-65R17 muds - Sold

    '01 Jeep WJ Limited 4.7 V8 with some bits - Sold
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    Default Re: Best all rounder 4x4 SUV

    Quote Originally Posted by Commander View Post
    Niks, dis die probleem, maar jy kan n "lesser" nuwer voertuig kry vir daai geld en wel finansier, soos B.V. die Everest.
    Ek verstaan jou nie. My vraag was tot watter ouderdom nog maklik finansierbaar is. Ek raai 2006 en nuwer??
    Vrywaring: Niks wat ek hier kwyt raak moet hoegenaamd as feite beskou word nie.

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