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  1. #121
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    Can someone please write it in the original alphabet

    That might help
    Post of the day.
    Cheers
    Willem Greyling

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  3. #122
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Julius wants Durban changed as well....Durb's will be no more....

    https://www.thesouthafrican.com/news...change-racist/
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  4. #123
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?


  5. #124
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Weaver View Post
    And as for the statement that "they arrived her looking to steal, to fight or to look for work", well... that's pretty much what the British did as well.
    This is true yes, it doesn't give an isiXhosa name any more relevance.

    They weren't the original people here, the Khoekhoe, or Khoi if you prefer were, the Afrikaner arrived later and then the British, who despite their vices, were largely responsible for the development of PE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Weaver View Post
    the boundaries between the Mfengu, Khoisan, AmaPhondo etc etc were completely fluid and often integrated.
    This is true North of and around the vicinity of the Fish River, South of the Fish River was Khoekhoe territory.

    The first encounter that European settlers had with the amaXhosa was in 1702, 50 years after their arrival in the Cape, and that encounter was in the vicinity of the Fish River, where they were warned not to go.

    The first mention of formal dealings with Bantu people was 1722.

    It was only in the middle of the 18th century 100 years after setting in the Cape that there were regular encounters between settlers and amaXhosa as they moved North and towards the Fish River.

    History of South Africa under administration of the Dutch, George McCall Theal.

    The Bantu, S.M. Malomela.

    Determination of amaRharhabe and amaGcaleka Paramountcy, Article 81351 S.A
    Government.


    Minutes of the meeting of the council of Policy at the Cape 29, September 1722.
    Last edited by Fontuin; 2021/02/24 at 08:01 PM.
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  6. #125
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    One has to ask; if SA was totally uninhabited by any people when the coloniser arrived, would we still have had railways, industry, Sandton City, the VnA Waterfront, roads, electricity...............?
    No, it would rather have been an ecosystem in harmony with the circle of life as opposed to a Western world industrial pollution generating toxic junkyard. I much rather prefer the former.

    Why such a big fuss about the name change? I am yet to hear someone complain about place names when they overland all over Africa.

    It is not such a big deal, embrace it.
    Regards

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  8. #126
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Quote Originally Posted by MANDREAS View Post
    Hey Craig, what happened here?



    MarcR, quickly, bless Craig's heart.
    Same as Hector Pietersen perhaps? This isn't a tit for tat you're going to win, everyone loses
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  10. #127
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    One has to ask; if SA was totally uninhabited by any people when the coloniser arrived, would we still have had railways, industry, Sandton City, the VnA Waterfront, roads, electricity...............?
    They would have shipped in indentured labour like they did Indians for the sugar industry in KZN

  11. #128
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Quote Originally Posted by HeinrichC View Post
    No, it would rather have been an ecosystem in harmony with the circle of life as opposed to a Western world industrial pollution generating toxic junkyard. I much rather prefer the former.

    Why such a big fuss about the name change? I am yet to hear someone complain about place names when they overland all over Africa.

    It is not such a big deal, embrace it.
    Oh I am not complaining. You missed the point of my post.
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  12. #129
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Quote Originally Posted by HeinrichC View Post

    Why such a big fuss about the name change?

    It is not such a big deal, embrace it.
    More children are going hungry tonight because they're wasting resources on petty nonsense.

    That's what the fuss is about.
    2004 Land Rover Discovery 2 VNTd5 ES

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  14. #130
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof View Post
    Julius wants Durban changed as well....Durb's will be no more....

    https://www.thesouthafrican.com/news...change-racist/
    Durbanites are, by and large, too laid back to care. Most people are quite comfortable with eThekwini. If he wants something else he'll have to go with Kangela, which is the original Zulu name from whence Congella came, which means to "look", the name given to the Bluff by early tribesmen.

    See, the umlungu did some appropriation, even back then ...

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  16. #131
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gungets Tuft View Post
    They would have shipped in indentured labour like they did Indians for the sugar industry in KZN
    The insinuation by Tony, is that indigenous labour was necessary to create the cities, infrastructure and so forth.

    The question remains; would the built environment inherited in 1994 have existed without indigenous labour or imported indentured labour?

    The mere changing of a name of a place because it is hurtful, doesnt change the history of the place, it still stands as a testament to those who conceived, realised and named it.
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  18. #132
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gungets Tuft View Post

    See, the umlungu did some appropriation, even back then ...
    I saw a "local" gentleman today and I had to ask him if he was English. He stopped sipping his expensive Scotch, adjusted the cuff of his tweed jacket, his Range Rover in the car park, and replied "no, why do you ask"?

    Appropriation?
    Estee = S T = Sean Towlson

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  19. #133
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gungets Tuft View Post
    Same as Hector Pietersen perhaps? This isn't a tit for tat you're going to win, everyone loses
    Difference is, our history is demonised, while theirs is glorified.
    How pathetic.

  20. #134
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Quote Originally Posted by Searcher View Post
    Difference is, our history is demonised, while theirs is glorified.
    How pathetic.
    No, they're both horrible, and in our shared history, which was exactly the point of my post. What was the point of your's?

    I'm utterly bewildered that anyone would find glory in the malicious death of anyone, much less children.

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  22. #135
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    The insinuation by Tony, is that indigenous labour was necessary to create the cities, infrastructure and so forth.

    The question remains; would the built environment inherited in 1994 have existed without indigenous labour or imported indentured labour?

    The mere changing of a name of a place because it is hurtful, doesnt change the history of the place, it still stands as a testament to those who conceived, realised and named it.
    I actually don't have much of a thing for names, statues, that sort of thing. History isn't about that, huge parts of world history have no monuments, and are remembered nonetheless.

    Benjamin D'Urban dubbed a bay on the east coast of Africa D'Urban in vanity, he didn't build a single thing here, so the argument is moot from that point. There are many more people since then, and since whatshername that lent her name to Port Elizabeth, more deserving of being remembered for contributions.

    That said, I hate having geographical features, cities, streets, named after people, even Mandela (let's not start a slagging match please), because they age out. In 100 years who cares. Dust to dust. Names should be descriptive rather.

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  24. #136
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    I saw a "local" gentleman today and I had to ask him if he was English. He stopped sipping his expensive Scotch, adjusted the cuff of his tweed jacket, his Range Rover in the car park, and replied "no, why do you ask"?

    Appropriation?
    A little poetic license there Estée?

    Naa, I don't care if he feels that he has to be an old English lord, he's unlikely to be the guy agitating for, or celebrating, city name changes. He's too busy being a capitalist, and that's also ok. Insisting on a reversion to pastoral namadic life for an entire cultural group in exchange for a city name change is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

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  26. #137
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gungets Tuft View Post
    That said, I hate having geographical features, cities, streets, named after people, even Mandela (let's not start a slagging match please), because they age out. In 100 years who cares. Dust to dust. Names should be descriptive rather.
    Yip, I am sold on your idea.

    Some suggestions if I may: Wasaniceplace, Nowinruins, Sosadtosee, Agteruit, Nomorewaterfontein, Mudercity, Corruptionville, Moertoe .... so many appropriate names to choose from.
    Last edited by Searcher; 2021/02/24 at 09:37 PM.

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  28. #138
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Quote Originally Posted by Searcher View Post
    Yip, I am sold on your idea.

    Some suggestions if I may: Wasaniceplace, Nowinruins, Sosadtosee, Agteruit, Nomorewaterfontein, Mudercity, Corruptionville, Moertoe .... so many appropriate names to choose from.
    Wallow bru, if that's your happy place. If it's ok I'll not.

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  30. #139
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gungets Tuft View Post
    Insisting on a reversion to pastoral namadic life for an entire cultural group in exchange for a city name change is a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
    ''No, it would rather have been an ecosystem in harmony with the circle of life as opposed to a Western world industrial pollution generating toxic junkyard. I much rather prefer the former.'' HeinrichC

    He appears to agree with your post but disagrees with the content
    Last edited by Estee; 2021/02/25 at 04:32 AM.
    Estee = S T = Sean Towlson

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  32. #140
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    Default Re: How is everybody in Gqeberha?

    Wow, this thread has turned
    Always think: Could this be sarcasm?

    André Opperman

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