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  1. #321
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    No harm meant. Tracks that is Soft roader friendly is not the ultimate test site for traction aids.
    If it is fun outings it's fine.

    Grade 4 to 5 trails and tracks will give the best results for a test like this.
    Unfortunately chances for vehicle damage is great. Think the orginisers of this event kept that in mind. Running a duplicate test in the same conditions won't proof much.
    Makes sense, fun outing or damage risk. I am up for both.
    I have been dying to get back to Moegatle
    Dont take anything I say as actual advice or fact. I dont.

    Haval H9 2.0T AWD
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  2. #322
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    No harm meant. Tracks that is Soft roader friendly is not the ultimate test site for traction aids.
    If it is fun outings it's fine.

    Grade 4 to 5 trails and tracks will give the best results for a test like this.
    Unfortunately chances for vehicle damage is great. Think the orginisers of this event kept that in mind. Running a duplicate test in the same conditions won't proof much.
    What would be nice is if there could be another similar event with an even wider variety of vehicles in stock standard form. Not that the guys with the modified vehicles aren't welcome but to see how different manufacturers build different systems is cool.

    That's why it was fun to see a vehicle like the Haval H9 perform so well.
    Louis Adendorff
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  4. #323
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by Ama-newbie View Post
    I think (only think, Stephen to confirm) the white Amarok has a 25mm lift... Apart from the tyres, mine (the blue) is totally stock...
    Shady has made me all embarrassed now. To go into details, I run slightly bigger than stock tyres. (265/70r17) and have done almost from new. I fitted a winch some while back as I am too old and frail to drag my boat onto its trailer, and I started noticing the suspension sagging. Mikkems fitted new springs and serviced my shocks at the same time, but they did say it was lifted a bit and so put some 25mm spacers in the rear suspension. (I was always happy with the stock suspension and was not looking for lift, just to offset the mass of the winch, but it seems I gained a few mm.)

    I was still highly impressed with the scobies and the Haval.

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  6. #324
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Very nice video. Seems a good time was had by all!
    I think it is clear that DL trumps TC although the New Defender comes mighty close. Very impressive elctronics!

    Who is the "marshall" in the first set of obstacles?
    There is never a right time to do the wrong thing and never a wrong time to do the right thing!

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  8. #325
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooly View Post
    What would be nice is if there could be another similar event with an even wider variety of vehicles in stock standard form. Not that the guys with the modified vehicles aren't welcome but to see how different manufacturers build different systems is cool.

    That's why it was fun to see a vehicle like the Haval H9 perform so well.
    Agreed Hooly.
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  9. #326
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooly View Post
    What would be nice is if there could be another similar event with an even wider variety of vehicles in stock standard form. Not that the guys with the modified vehicles aren't welcome but to see how different manufacturers build different systems is cool.

    That's why it was fun to see a vehicle like the Haval H9 perform so well.
    Yes please

    I missed this one in favour of family commitments but would love to see what the Prado can do. I am a complete novice in this and could learn a lot at such events while at the same time supplying you with some good data on the capabilities of the vehicle in the hands of a novice.

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  11. #327
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois Theron View Post
    Very nice video. Seems a good time was had by all!
    I think it is clear that DL trumps TC although the New Defender comes mighty close. Very impressive elctronics!

    Who is the "marshall" in the first set of obstacles?
    When it comes to rock crawling type of stuff I were always impressed by the Land Rover TC system.
    Have yet to see a TC system that performs in sand or let us say that perform better than lockers. I can take people to dunes that can only be conquered with double locked 4x4`s.
    Last edited by grips; 2021/03/11 at 06:40 AM.

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  13. #328
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by shady View Post
    Video is ready.

    https://youtu.be/iPLk3QpeSVc


    remember to set quality settings to 1080.
    best viewed on laptop or similar.
    Finally got to watch it last night. Many thanks for the efforts and editing. Also like your other videos.

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  15. #329
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Just a thought and not sure if this is allowed on this forum. One of the parents from my kids school does collections for the squatters around JHB. I was at his place on Saturday before this event and he had an Afriforum Bakkie and trailer loading up donated goods to take to Krugersdorp. I know they support a few of these locations in Pretoria as well, and give a huge amount of their time and efforts to collect for these guys.

    Based on the guys at the event on Sunday, I think most of us are managing okay, and if there is another similar event, I would be happy to do collections for this guy if anyone is getting rid of stuff. They pretty much take anything, but especially clothing and food.

    I know there are many scams around these days, but I am happy to vouch for this guy as I know how much effort he puts into this and I know for a fact that his business is struggling, and yet he still donates his time and house to collect for these guys. It is also heartbreaking to see the conditions the family's are living in.

    To the organisers, I very much appreciate the efforts, and I would gladly do another of these events, but I quite like the fact that this event was not aimed at breaking vehicles, but a bit of fun like was had, was great for me. A nice outing and getting out and meeting some of you good folk was fine, but i for one, like the format and the fact that we were not trying to break vehicles.

    I think quite a few of the guys were not super experienced and in a similar boat and enjoyed seeing what they could do with the knowledge that there was some backup and more experienced guys to help out if things went pearshaped (which they didn't.)
    Last edited by stephenplumb; 2021/03/15 at 09:58 AM.

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  17. #330
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Great idea Stephen. Please see my PM about it.


    So 2 observations on the video

    https://youtu.be/iPLk3QpeSVc

    1: from 20:15 to 21:15 It's interesting how in this particular obstacle, the stiffness of the softy was in actual fact an advantage in terms of keeping everything away from mother earth. Yes, the Volvo has a slightly shorter wheelbase, and has no side steps, but even so, it didn't even come close. That back right just got lifted up, and kept everything away.

    2: 08:34 . Is there possibly something wrong with that turbo? It whines more than my mother in law! Why doesn't the clubcab 2.8 Gd6 that follows it make the same noise?

  18. #331
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Thanks, Shady .

    I originally thought the Toyota whine was actually a transmission noise - like straight cut gears in the transfer case when in low range. A bit before your time, but the Nissan Pulsar had a similar whine due to that. But now that you mention turbo, that's more likely.

    I have another question related to the video: Why does the Hummer have this squeeky springs? It seems to correlate with the rear axle articulation.
    If my post insulted you, wonder where the smiley went .

    Johnie
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  19. #332
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by JJJ View Post
    Why does the Hummer have this squeeky springs? It seems to correlate with the rear axle articulation.
    Leaf springs tend to do this at times
    There is never a right time to do the wrong thing and never a wrong time to do the right thing!

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    JJJ

  21. #333
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    It seems the disadvantage with Traction Control is the loss of momentum as the system takes its time thinking about which wheel to brake
    Hilux 2700i 4x4 D/C

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  23. #334
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by WayneB View Post
    It seems the disadvantage with Traction Control is the loss of momentum as the system takes its time thinking about which wheel to brake
    The system in the Land Rovers seem to keep the wheel in the air running at the same speed as the wheels with traction, almost like an electronic diff lock, with almost no loss of momentum.

  24. #335
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by WayneB View Post
    It seems the disadvantage with Traction Control is the loss of momentum as the system takes its time thinking about which wheel to brake
    My conclusion as well...

    Meaning they are well suited for slippery roads (think ice snow etc). Now here in RSA we want to push that feature to compete in slow axle twisting wheel lift situations, not fair I think
    Last edited by Dungbeetle; 2021/03/15 at 12:31 PM.
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  26. #336
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Great event and great video! Will come to the next one with a CX-5 AWD to try it out.

    Very interesting to see how much wheelspin was allowed before the spinning wheel was braked, some vehicles the wheel without grip rotated many times before the TC reacted, others had 2-3 rotations before the TC reacted, others had just a 1/2 spin then it was braked. Would be great to put a white mark on each wheel to watch/count the rotations. More advanced and more expensive TC systems seem to work the best but it can't be rocket science to program a TC system to work well?
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  28. #337
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by pardus View Post
    Very interesting to see how much wheelspin was allowed before the spinning wheel was braked, some vehicles the wheel without grip rotated many times before the TC reacted, others had 2-3 rotations before the TC reacted, others had just a 1/2 spin then it was braked. Would be great to put a white mark on each wheel to watch/count the rotations. More advanced and more expensive TC systems seem to work the best but it can't be rocket science to program a TC system to work well?
    Well spotted!

    Related to the SUVs, the first TC systems allowed more wheel rotation before braking, even within a brand. E.g. early Volvos went half a rotation, now it is down to 1/15, depending on the starting speed of the rotation.

    This is also affected by whether the stability control is on or off, which is sometimes the only control the driver has. The XC60 has a menu where this can be deselected, the VW Tiguan and Freelander 2 had an offroad button which did this. I would have preferred this option - like HDC - as it is a lot easier.

    I mean, here is the Volvo process. There's so many options, you have to keep your wits about you:

    From the My XC60 screen, select: Settings/Driver Settings/Driver Support. Then tick the ESC OFF Box. You have to repeat this each time the ignition is switched off/on, as it resets to ON on startup.

    The XC60 going up the cross-axles had a lot of wheelspin, as the SC was off. Watch the same car going down the last donga - very little rotation, as SC was active.

    Bear in mind that to signal to the TC system you REALLY want to go, you have to apply some accelerator. So the wheel spins up, TC decides OK then, and starts braking gently, not emergency braking.

    You will notice once the car moves off, every now and then the wheel rotates briefly. This is the TC checking for solid ground.

    If you had weight-on-wheel detection - which I think the new Defender has - then you don't have to check. The car will sense the suspension coming up and therefore know there is support and release the brakes.

    But, every time I see your model Mazda, I think it should do well under similar conditions. Nice short overhangs and lots of space for larger tyres .
    Last edited by JJJ; 2021/03/16 at 10:28 PM.
    If my post insulted you, wonder where the smiley went .

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  29. #338
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    I would like to try obstacle one again sometime, this time with the diff lock and crawl control engaged.

    Sure I can do it without touching a thing except the steering wheel.
    Louis Adendorff
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  31. #339
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by Dungbeetle View Post
    My conclusion as well...

    Meaning they are well suited for slippery roads (think ice snow etc). Now here in RSA we want to push that feature to compete in slow axle twisting wheel lift situations, not fair I think
    The event did demonstrate the capability of the TC systems. It also high lighted that double lockers still is the best.
    I do agree that TC on SUV`s were not meant for serious off roading but indeed for slippery muddy roads. Think 4x4`s like Land Rover had the normal off road stuff also covered.

    The next level test should be held at a place like Berakah.

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  33. #340
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    TC v DL is really a non-starter, on trails lockers should beat TC almost every time.

    That’s why I always preach the Jeep WK/XK QD2 gospel, with hydraulic lockers front and rear it really almost gives you the best of both worlds.


    A WK, XJ and a Ducati...

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