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  1. #341
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooly View Post
    I would like to try obstacle one again sometime, this time with the diff lock and crawl control engaged.

    Sure I can do it without touching a thing except the steering wheel.

    With the DL and crawl engaged, it will look as if you are driving on a flat surface..
    RechardT

    Now- Toyo GD6 2.8- Creed

    One day is One day- Dodge Ram 6.7l TD.

    You can go anywhere you want in life as long as its in a 4x4.

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  3. #342
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    There is one parameter not tested, how well did your ride do on the tar from Jhb to the Richtersveld ?

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  5. #343
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainier Vermaak View Post
    TC v DL is really a non-starter, on trails lockers should beat TC almost every time.

    That’s why I always preach the Jeep WK/XK QD2 gospel, with hydraulic lockers front and rear it really almost gives you the best of both worlds.
    It depends on the circumstances. There is an obstacle at Hennops that I was able to do easily with my Jimny with TC that the SJ's with Much bigger tyres and diff-locks could not do. The Diff lock prevents them from turning at a critical point in the obstacle.
    Vic

    "We are plain quiet folk and have no use for adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner!"

    2019 Suzuki Jimny - 235/75R15 M/T's, lifted
    EX 2012 Suzuki Jimny 1.5 - 215R15C's, Steel undies, lifted and locked. - CRASHED
    EX 1984 Suzuki SJ410 - 245/75R15 Muddies, Nissan A15 Motor, OME's - SOLD
    EX 2008 Suzuki Jimny - 215R15C's, Mounty's Rock Sliders, tow-bar
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  7. #344
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Looking at the video, very sorry I missed this. For me I would be very interested in my Duster's capability.

    So hoping another event gets organized.
    Jan van Zeeventer

    2014 Duster 1.5DCi
    1988 110 CSW V8
    1961 S2 SWB

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  9. #345
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois Theron View Post
    Very nice video. Seems a good time was had by all!
    I think it is clear that DL trumps TC although the New Defender comes mighty close. Very impressive elctronics!



    While the new Defender has traction control, it's main use is actually only on the front wheels. (When the going gets tough)

    This is due to the fact that it has difflocks rear and centre. So where this vehicle falls in terms of this debate (TC vs difflocks), I don't quite know.

    I was quite disappointed at first when I heard they will be e-lockers and not mechanical difflocks. But now I think they're the best thing since sliced banana bread.
    (Note, they're NOT difflocks via traction control, they're actually lockers capable of locking completely and independently of the braking system)

    Quote Originally Posted by saxj View Post
    It depends on the circumstances. There is an obstacle at Hennops that I was able to do easily with my Jimny with TC that the SJ's with Much bigger tyres and diff-locks could not do. The Diff lock prevents them from turning at a critical point in the obstacle.
    This is where e- difflocks offer the best of both worlds. Firstly, it's all done seamlessly. No driving forward and backwards to try get them to lock, - they turn on and off when required based on slippage, steering angle etc. So no strain on components when accidently left on, when back on a hard surface.

    Secondly, it's not just on or off. It can be 25, 50, 75, or 100% locked. This allows one to take on a turning, cross-axled obstacle, where others would have to decide if they want to risk components and keep the difflocks on through such an obstacle.

    I think this is the future. Difflocks can be dangerous to components if used by the uneducated. A few years ago, there was a lady that I had to help as she couldn't get her double cab out the parking lot. It was screeching and squealing terribly and just couldn't make the turn. Her child had pushed the difflock button, and she had no idea what was wrong with her vehicle "for the last few hours". And this is especially wise on a vehicle that admittedly will spend many hours in parking lots and not really in it's intended natural habitat.

    The one disadvantage though, is the lack of driver involvement. Effort is intrinsically linked to enjoyment in our game. Just look at how much fun Steven had in the SJ!

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  11. #346
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by saxj View Post
    It depends on the circumstances. There is an obstacle at Hennops that I was able to do easily with my Jimny with TC that the SJ's with Much bigger tyres and diff-locks could not do. The Diff lock prevents them from turning at a critical point in the obstacle.
    You missed the “almost”...



    A WK, XJ and a Ducati...

    "Stil, broers,daar gaan ‘n man verby, hy groet, en dis verlaas.
    Daar’s nog maar een soos hy; bekyk hom goed."

  12. #347
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by shady View Post
    While the new Defender has traction control, it's main use is actually only on the front wheels. (When the going gets tough)

    This is due to the fact that it has difflocks rear and centre. So where this vehicle falls in terms of this debate (TC vs difflocks), I don't quite know.

    I was quite disappointed at first when I heard they will be e-lockers and not mechanical difflocks. But now I think they're the best thing since sliced banana bread.
    (Note, they're NOT difflocks via traction control, they're actually lockers capable of locking completely and independently of the braking system)



    This is where e- difflocks offer the best of both worlds. Firstly, it's all done seamlessly. No driving forward and backwards to try get them to lock, - they turn on and off when required based on slippage, steering angle etc. So no strain on components when accidently left on, when back on a hard surface.

    Secondly, it's not just on or off. It can be 25, 50, 75, or 100% locked. This allows one to take on a turning, cross-axled obstacle, where others would have to decide if they want to risk components and keep the difflocks on through such an obstacle.

    I think this is the future. Difflocks can be dangerous to components if used by the uneducated. A few years ago, there was a lady that I had to help as she couldn't get her double cab out the parking lot. It was screeching and squealing terribly and just couldn't make the turn. Her child had pushed the difflock button, and she had no idea what was wrong with her vehicle "for the last few hours". And this is especially wise on a vehicle that admittedly will spend many hours in parking lots and not really in it's intended natural habitat.

    The one disadvantage though, is the lack of driver involvement. Effort is intrinsically linked to enjoyment in our game. Just look at how much fun Steven had in the SJ!
    I agree, this is the future, it makes sense that engineers combine the best out of all the 4x4 systems that has been designed over the last 30 years and to make everything work together in a seamless manner.
    Louis Adendorff
    Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk (Ironman suit)
    Everest 2.2 XLS (Swambo’s mommy taxi)

  13. #348
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by faniedup View Post
    There is one parameter not tested, how well did your ride do on the tar from Jhb to the Richtersveld ?
    Well, I was not there on the day, but my ride did fairly well on that recently.

    I'm pretty sure the Patrol that was there on the day would do well too...
    Ian de Villiers
    Nissan Patrol GRX 4.5

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  15. #349
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by shady View Post
    ...
    The one disadvantage though, is the lack of driver involvement. Effort is intrinsically linked to enjoyment in our game. Just look at how much fun Steven had in the SJ!
    To know that, you had to be at the event... watching all the guys getting up the hill.

    I think there is just as much pride (obviously well hidden) in those that took their TC toys up the mountain, some with hardly a slip, and others were quite a challenge.

    It would be magic to have some Touaregs and Dusters at the next "challenge", and even a Fortuner joining us.

    In my opinion, the format and venue for this event were near perfect and would make a fantastic mini annual GTG for the Gauteng guys.
    "The problem with internet quotes is that they are very often unverified."
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  17. #350
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainier Vermaak View Post
    You missed the “almost”...

    Not really. 99 times out of 100 Diff locks are king.
    Vic

    "We are plain quiet folk and have no use for adventures. Nasty disturbing uncomfortable things! Make you late for dinner!"

    2019 Suzuki Jimny - 235/75R15 M/T's, lifted
    EX 2012 Suzuki Jimny 1.5 - 215R15C's, Steel undies, lifted and locked. - CRASHED
    EX 1984 Suzuki SJ410 - 245/75R15 Muddies, Nissan A15 Motor, OME's - SOLD
    EX 2008 Suzuki Jimny - 215R15C's, Mounty's Rock Sliders, tow-bar
    EX 1996 Jeep Cherokee XJ OME's 30x9.5 A/Ts

  18. #351
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by shady View Post
    No driving forward and backwards to try get them to lock, - they turn on and off when required based on slippage, steering angle etc. So no strain on components when accidently left on, when back on a hard surface.
    !
    Really not my experience with lockers. I have owned several vehicles with double lockers and transfer case lock.
    Ranging from Unimog, Samils and the Cruisers. I can only remember one occasion where I battled to engage a locker. The cause were a sticky air solenoid
    Flick them in and out as I like.
    Last edited by grips; 2021/03/17 at 07:14 AM.

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  20. #352
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoJan View Post
    Looking at the video, very sorry I missed this. For me I would be very interested in my Duster's capability.

    So hoping another event gets organized.

    We are planning another 2 this year.. watch the forum for thread launch...
    RechardT

    Now- Toyo GD6 2.8- Creed

    One day is One day- Dodge Ram 6.7l TD.

    You can go anywhere you want in life as long as its in a 4x4.

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  22. #353
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcR View Post
    To know that, you had to be at the event... watching all the guys getting up the hill.

    I think there is just as much pride (obviously well hidden) in those that took their TC toys up the mountain, some with hardly a slip, and others were quite a challenge.

    It would be magic to have some Touaregs and Dusters at the next "challenge", and even a Fortuner joining us.

    In my opinion, the format and venue for this event were near perfect and would make a fantastic mini annual GTG for the Gauteng guys.
    Agreed Marc..

    Bigger and even better with a wider variety of vehicles, making it a full day event to meet, greet, drive , braai and have fun...Hedgehog and I are busy working on some dates and will Launch soon...
    RechardT

    Now- Toyo GD6 2.8- Creed

    One day is One day- Dodge Ram 6.7l TD.

    You can go anywhere you want in life as long as its in a 4x4.

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  24. #354
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    I hope the orginisers take it to the next level. Duplicating the first event will carry no value.

    The next level should include level 5 obstacles.

    After that a serious sand trail like Waterford.

    Other than that yawn.

  25. #355
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    I hope the orginisers take it to the next level. Duplicating the first event will carry no value.

    The next level should include level 5 obstacles.

    After that a serious sand trail like Waterford.

    Other than that yawn.
    I think it would be nice to see a bigger variety of vehicles next time, but the idea is to see how different systems work, not who has the pypkar with the biggest wheels, and V8. I do agree that some sand would be fun.

    I for one have no intention to try and see if I can break my R800 000 vehicle.

    The type of trail was good enough to test vehicle systems, what would be nice is to see more standard, off the showroom floor vehicles. Suspension lift and offroad tyres already changes things a lot.
    Louis Adendorff
    Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk (Ironman suit)
    Everest 2.2 XLS (Swambo’s mommy taxi)

  26. #356
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    I think the point was already made.
    I also do not suggest breaking vehicles.
    Also does not have modified vehicles in mind.

    I am interested in a comparison in real off road conditions.

    Would be interesting to see how far TC can take one in these conditions. Like for instance the New Defender. Will it be able to go where a double locked Wrangler can go. Talking stock vehicles here.

    I know many guys want to see what their Soft Roaders can do. That is fine. But there are some of us that is interested in a comparison in more serious conditions.

    Maybe I have lost it. But axle twisters only is an indication of only one part of off roading.

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  28. #357
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    I think the point was already made.
    I also do not suggest breaking vehicles.
    Also does not have modified vehicles in mind.

    I am interested in a comparison in real off road conditions.

    Would be interesting to see how far TC can take one in these conditions. Like for instance the New Defender. Will it be able to go where a double locked Wrangler can go. Talking stock vehicles here.

    I know many guys want to see what their Soft Roaders can do. That is fine. But there are some of us that is interested in a comparison in more serious conditions.

    Maybe I have lost it. But axle twisters only is an indication of only one part of off roading.

    This is why we will be taking one of the event GTG's to Moegatle...
    RechardT

    Now- Toyo GD6 2.8- Creed

    One day is One day- Dodge Ram 6.7l TD.

    You can go anywhere you want in life as long as its in a 4x4.

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  30. #358
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by faniedup View Post
    There is one parameter not tested, how well did your ride do on the tar from Jhb to the Richtersveld ?
    Reckon that's one category in which I'd score in the top 5
    Rob Kirk

    Amarok V6.

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  32. #359
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post

    1) I also do not suggest breaking vehicles.

    2) Talking stock vehicles here.

    3) But there are some of us that is interested in a comparison in more serious conditions.
    So as an event organizer (From my point of view), how do you get point 1,2, and 3 above in one sentence, with conviction, so as to let the participants feel confident to join the outing?

    How do you convince the owner of a brand new R1.5bar vehicle to come and take a chance (on some challenging conditions in competition with a brand new R1 bar twin-locked Rubi?

    I for one, would just giggle nervously and scroll past the thread if it was my new Defender....

    The point of these events, is to get the guys willing to venture off road in the first place, in a controlled, damage restricting environment.
    Most of us (I hope) knows that there is more to off roading than just traction...

    But to test the other areas of off roading means clearances will be tested first, and lack of clearances will result in one thing only. Damage
    Last edited by Hedgehog; 2021/03/18 at 09:16 AM.
    _______________________________________
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  34. #360
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    Default Re: March Difflock vs Traction Control brekkie Run

    These challenges will be set up to try and garner the abilities of every different vehicle and it's systems, but it will be done with the goal in mind of limiting the risk as much as possible...

    I have always had the mindset, that any one can conquer an obstacle, but not everyone will be doing the next one...

    And with that in mind...The trick is not to see who has the biggest tollie, the trick is to get everyone back to the next event.
    Last edited by Hedgehog; 2021/03/18 at 09:23 AM.
    _______________________________________
    Andrew van Staden
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    2021 FJ Cruiser

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