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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Advise on a "lifer" overland vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Weakley View Post
    I would in fact stick with a hard-top, clamshell rooftop tent and a 76 series station wagon for 2 people in Africa.
    Some people prefer the live-in type modifications with a popup roof and this is where the bakkie (single or perhaps even double cab) is preferred. If I were for instance traveling colder climes like South America, Europe or Asia, this would be my choice.
    For 2 people the long-wheel base 79 has more storage space than 2 people should require. It is more unwieldy and has less favorable departure angles etc than the shorter 76 series. Is very difficult in South Africa to find one with the simple 4,2l 1HZ motor.

    My ideal is as you state, for 2 people in Africa.

    Just for your info, you can still get the 79 with the 1HZ new, both DC and SC. https://www.toyota.co.za/specs-compa...r-79?model=62S

    Edit, sorry not sure if you meant that it's hard to find a 76 with the 1HZ these days.
    Last edited by bigboy529; 2021/01/18 at 03:35 PM.
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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Advise on a "lifer" overland vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by pjf110 View Post
    My pick would be a 79 v6 double cab. Its cheaper to buy and maintain than the big v8 cruisers. Its also less finicky about fuel that the v8 and faster than the 1hz diesel on the long tar hauls. Only downside being fuel consumption.

    As a purely overland vehicle any 70 series is tough as nails and a true tried and trusted overlander.
    I agree that the V6 is much faster than a 1Hz though the low down torque on the 1 Hz is amazing. Fuel consumption don't differ that much. As an overland vehicle you have the problem
    that the V6 and the V8 is not available in any country south of the Sahara besides SA, Namibia, Botswana, Swaziland and Lesotho. Not in Moz, not in Zim or Zambia or higher up. Should
    you require parts on the engine you won't find it and will have to order via a dealer or knowledge on the V6/V8 in the rural areas unlike the 1Hz which must be the most common vehicle all over.

    Stan thanks, I suppose I have no option to take a guide with in the single cab except if my wife sit on the handbrake! We once gave a lift to a Portuguese lady in her sixties travelling by bus in
    Mozambique. From Gorongosa to Ilha de Mozambique with a sleepover on the beach at Quelimane, 2 full days of travel. We slept in the RTT and the lady on the seats. All we had was a pillow and
    a blanket to put over the handbrake/console and the lasies took turns to sit there.

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  5. #23
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    Default Re: Advise on a "lifer" overland vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy529 View Post
    Just for your info, you can still get the 79 with the 1HZ new, both DC and SC. https://www.toyota.co.za/specs-compa...r-79?model=62S

    Edit, sorry not sure if you meant that it's hard to find a 76 with the 1HZ these days.
    Yes, the 76 is not available in 1Hz anymore so you have to buy it 2nd hand.

  6. #24
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    Default Re: Advise on a "lifer" overland vehicle

    Guys thanks so much for the stellar advise, it has been very valuable.


    I guess, I was thinking more with ego than practically too.


    Please see some of the responses below.

    In general, I think the overall advice has been, keep the hilux, its a good vehicle that does what it needs, I am not traveling that much at the moment so i dont require a dedicated tourer, I could save the money and purchase a small caravan or trailer to supplement my space needs. Another aspect was that I have an infant daughter who I would love to travel around SADC with, and needed the extra space, but more importantly security, and the caravan works very well for this.

    If I do start traveling more, then in a few years I can consider a LC for the job, but in the meantime, why mess with a good thing.

    I do need to work out how to properly maintain the current hilux past its Toyota Service plan, and if anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.

    Thanks again, really appreciate the time everyone took to comment, and share their wisdom.

    Wishing you guys many happy miles.



    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    Why not keep the Hilux, and dedicate it, to overlander use? At only 100k km and with planned use of only overlanding I would definitely not even think of selling it or getting a 79 (that will be less comfy and more thirsty) or 105 (that are starting to get long in the tooth now.. even if they are very reliable)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post


    Then get a nice "fast and comfy" platkar for the daily grind.


    That Hilux is perfect for overlanding



    100%, I was overloading with a friend in a 76, and I said to him, I can make this hilux a good off-roader with some mods, but you canít make the cruiser a better tarmac vehicle easily. I think I could better spend the money on new upgrading the hilux rather than buying a new vehicle.


    I have an old Land Rover series 3 I am doing up as my in town Platkaar - brings me great joy, and my history with fast cars is pretty bad


    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    J, I think one replaces vehicles frequently for one of two reasons, or both. The first is ego and the second is reliability/cost issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post


    Some brands have a higher inherent reliability compared to others (real and or perceived). On this basis, I would stay with Toyota. It appears to have a high inherent reliability reputation and as you have owned these vehicles I am sure you can attest to this.


    So, in the science of maintenance, the data suggest that the highest causes of failure are ''Infant Mortality'' (when something is new) and Random failures. The Bath Tub and Wear Out curves are relatively low, which surprises a number of people.


    Your Preventative Maintenance schedule is based on averages but can be complemented with Predictive (oil sampling) and Condition (inspections) maintenance tasks which can prolong the life of your vehicle.


    If you look at your current vehicle, you mention its on the 100 000km mark. I assume it is 1) Still fit for purpose; and 2) Performs its functions when required. If your application or requirement has change, it might no longer be fit for purpose (bakkie, Double Cab of SUV or, Platkar, 4x2, 4x4) then replace. If it still performs the functions safely and is fit for purpose, keep it, but look at a blended maintenance programme. If the cost of maintenance exceeds the cost of replacement, sell it.


    Stay with Toyota.



    Thanks Estee - You are right it was a little bit of ego involved! But its a solid vehicle, done many good offroad kilos in it and its never ever disappointed. It serves its perfect very well, and I suppose I have been looking at reasons or justifications as to why get another vehicle which are not sound in retrospect. I need to look at a new maintenance program for it, I really want to look after it. 100% sticking with Toyota.


    Do you have any suggestions on how to maintain the Hilux beyond its regular services?


    Quote Originally Posted by RobH View Post
    You can't keep a vehicle for life and worry about the resale.



    100% Rob, I was worried about the Hilux depreciating too much, and loosing even more money on it the older I let it get. I always thought there was a rule of thumb to sell a car within its last service plan service, and this has steered my thinking a lot.


    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy529 View Post
    This will all depend on your finances, can you afford to have a overland vehicle stand for 90% of the year essentially a very expensive toy?
    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy529 View Post
    Coupled to this, how often do you camp or overland, how often will you use this vehicle? Oh and of course do you have space for another vehicle?


    I think most would love to have a dedicated camping / overlanding vehicle, but most don't because of the above.


    The which vehicle, should you go this route will all depend on your type of trips, how many people you are and vehicle only or do you tow something?


    Cruiser 105, 200, 76 or 79, but as also said there's nothing wrong with a Hilux or even Fortuner for that matter.



    Good points, I am running out of space and would need to put a car in storage near my house, so that adds to the costs.


    I was trying to justify the cost of having a vehicle sit for extended periods, but itís just not practical. We used to camp about once a month, but this is local camping mostly and I really donít need a Land Cruiser to do it, the Hilux works 100% for that. I am wanting to look at a caravan since I am a new father and getting an infant into a RTT is not ideal, but the Hilux will still tow a small caravan fine.


    Thanks for the input!


    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Weakley View Post
    I largely agree with Rob but your point is also well taken. My unashamedly biased opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Weakley View Post


    *First point - Toyota
    *Second point - Land Cruiser
    *Third point - diesel
    *Fourth point - 70 series


    I have a 76 series Land Cruiser, the old model with the simplest 1HZ 4,2l engine, not supplied any more. Model 2009, not used as my everyday get-about and has only done 160,000KM, including 53,000km on a long African trip 5 years ago. Still in perfect nick and with its comprehensive modifications will truly be our "lifer" overland vehicle.


    *Fifth point - Rather go for a 70 series single or preferably a double cab. Probably second hand as I prefer the 4,2 diesel as opposed to the V8 engine, but many prefer the more powerful but more finickity engine.
    *Sixth point - Whatever modifications you do, including the storage in the passenger area, preserve one small seat for a guide, guard or the like as is a requirement in some places.
    *When doing modifications place the greatest emphasis on not carrying too much weight.
    *If possible keep the engine, bodywork and suspension as standard as possible so that it is easy to repair and work on wherever you might find yourself.
    *If you feel compelled to upgrade the suspension, make sure that when it breaks, and it will, you can still replace with original Toyota spare parts.


    Have years of fun!!





    Stan, thanks so much for the thorough reply, its full of very good points. Your vehicle sounds amazing, it sounds like the goal I initially set out to achieve. Maybe in a few year, when we are overloading more, it would be a very good option.


    Your points on the engine and suspension are praiseworthy, and I 100% agree with the approach you have taken.


    I think a good option would be to keep the hilux for a few more years, it really performs well, and I donít need to do many more modifications on it beyond new tires, and then look at getting a LC if or when we are doing more overloading trips. We are pretty locked down in Johannesburg for the next three years, so I feel this could be the best option until we start overlanding again.


    Thanks again!


    Quote Originally Posted by tashtego9 View Post
    Definitely what others said, why resell? 100 thousand for a hilux is barely run in...and you already have all the kits and mods, plus you know it and know its history.
    Quote Originally Posted by tashtego9 View Post


    Unless you need more space, otherwise don't bother.



    Thanks very much, space was one of my issues, but I might as well just throw a tow hitch on the back and buy small caravan or offload trailer to make use of - would save me some bucks too. I was worried about the 2,4ís towing ability, but I did some research last night and while its not V8, it still tows acceptability for the offloading I will be doing, which is mostly mild touring compared to pathfinding.


    Quote Originally Posted by HugoNotte View Post
    According to your profile you are 35 years old and you would want a vehicle that lasts you until the end of your days. Hopefully it will not be the end of your days, but just to put a number to that, you would want something that could last you another 35 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by HugoNotte View Post
    From this perspective I would either consider a Nissan Patrol or a Toyota Landcruiser. Buy as new as you can afford. For that reason, I wouldn't want to look at a 105 series Cruiser, since it would already be 13 years or older.
    2nd hand Landcruisers are more expensive than Patrols. There are different perceptions on the availability of spare parts, but I own a 1983 Landcruiser and still get all the spares I have required so far from the agents. Talk is, that it might be a little more difficult to get spares for an older Patrol from Nissan, I don't know.


    Realistically speaking, if looking at a dedicated overlanding vehicle at your age, I would lower my expectations as to how long it should last. Work on 15 years for now. In that case your Hilux might make sense, so would a late 105 or a Patrol. Keep in mind that most Landcruiser Station wagon similar SUVs have got a payload of around 500 - 600 kg. Fitting lots of stuff eats into that very quickly. Therefore maybe a bakkie might be a better option.


    If you think about "real" overlanding, as in crossing the boerewors equator, I would consider Toyota for the simple reason, that they are everywhere. You are more likely to find spares and someone able to fix a Toyota than most other vehicle brands.


    Also think about a V6 Prado TX, they are vey popular in Africa and it's probably easier to find a good one than a decent 105. They 105 is either a donkey ( a nice one, but a donkey) with the 1HZ diesel engine or rather thirsty (range!) with the straight 6 EFI engine. The Prado is a little smaller, but gives you decent power and is a bit easier to live with in regards to fuel consumption.


    Even though a little less popular, a Hilux V6 might be a good choice, too.





    Thanks Hugo, I was thinking the 105 because of the solid front axles, but I get your point about its age. I am struggling to find one with anything under 250 000kms.


    I get your point about the weight on a 76 vs a 79, I really love the look of a 76, but the bakkie would be more practical.


    We have the 4litre Prado down in CT as a family vehicle, has over 200 000kms on it and still going strong! We use it for gravel road trips mostly, but it is a beast. Maybe I should consider kitting it out as a dedicated overlander since it is already paid for and could use the preventative maintenance as upgrades?


    Quote Originally Posted by BarryCH View Post
    I came to the exact decision 15 years ago, and swopped my then 2 year old 50 000 km Hilux for a 105 Cruiser EFI, with 150 000 km's on the clock.
    Quote Originally Posted by BarryCH View Post


    It is now a dedicated (mainly) camping travelling vehicle and the amount for km's being traveled over the years, the fuel consumption is not an issue. It is now on 260 000 odd km's. It is cheap to maintain and does all it is asked to do. At the time i felt the Hilux soft in comparison, so i swopped.


    I am thinking at some stage i should give it a proper make over, mechanically, as it smokes a little, does not use oil yet, valve stem seals probably a bit brittle, but nothing else, so i still want to wait a while i think. I am thinking, if i spend lets say R150 000 on it to replace seals, rubbers, clutch, proper do over drive train etc, it will still be cheaper than having a new model whatever. And all the modifications and extra's i have i can keep, as it is working well for me.


    At this stage i think i made a good decision.


    I do have a daily though, and i regularly say that i want to drive the Cruiser for as long as i am able to, and at my current mileage it will probably be well after retirement, i am planning on upping the mileage a bit though.


    I think it boils down to how much you will travel with it.



    Thanks Barry, I am very glad you are happy with that vehicle, and I take your point about how much we are going to travel. I suppose I have this unrealistic pipe dream of being able to travel long distances across borders all the time, but that isnít reality. Maybe in a few years time when I take a work sabbatical I should consider a set up more like yours, and stick to the hilux in the meantime. Hope you have many happy miles in that beast of yours. Sounds like a lovely vehicle.


    Quote Originally Posted by PierredW View Post
    My first overlanding vehicle was a Colt 2.8 TDI D/C which turns 21 on 15 March this year. I still use it daily so you can keep a vehicle for very long if you look after it.
    Quote Originally Posted by PierredW View Post


    My second and last one is a 1Hz single cab Cruiser which turns 13 in July.


    My wife's platkar is a 2.4 Fortuner 4x4 auto just over 1 year old with no mods besides dual battery and a Frontrunner drawer system.


    I don't plan to buy another vehicle in my life and if nothing like an accident or theft happens it should be viable.


    The Cruiser is only used for holidays and overland trips.


    Stan, a question: Where do you put the small seat for the guide in a S/C 79? We were allowed into Ngoro Goro without a guide as there was no place for him to sit.



    Sounds awesome! Wishing you many happy miles in it, I am glad it works well for you. I am really glad to hear about folks keeping their vehicles for so long, I was always under the impression that after 150 000kms, the resale would dive hard and the problems would start?


    Quote Originally Posted by pjf110 View Post
    My pick would be a 79 v6 double cab. Its cheaper to buy and maintain than the big v8 cruisers. Its also less finicky about fuel that the v8 and faster than the 1hz diesel on the long tar hauls. Only downside being fuel consumption.
    Quote Originally Posted by pjf110 View Post


    As a purely overland vehicle any 70 series is tough as nails and a true tried and trusted overlander.



    We have that engine in an old family Prado we have and it is really amazing, and thirsty! Think we get around 14,4l to 100kms. We also took one with us to Botswana recently on a trip and stock it performed fairly well on old A/Tís. I will do some research into the LC version with that engine. Havenít heard much to be honest. Thanks for the comment!






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  8. #25
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    Default Re: Advise on a "lifer" overland vehicle

    As for keeping your Hilux maintained after the 100k km and service plan.
    Keep servicing it at Toyota as per the service schedule, tyres, brakes, battery, light bulbs as needed and enjoy. By the way you use it, you probably don't have to look at the suspension yet.
    "The problems we have today is because the guys who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living." - Magnus Heystek

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  10. #26
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    Default Re: Advise on a "lifer" overland vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by JadeDsantos View Post
    Hey guys I'm looking for a bit of advice.

    I currently have a Toyota Hilux however it's coming up to its hundred thousand km mark and it's about time I trade it in before resale drops too much.

    What I am quite annoyed about is that you spend a lot of time and money upgrading these vehicles but after sell them every 100000 to 200 000 km or so, often getting very little for all the upgrades.

    I am looking for a dedicated lifetime overlander, and was looking at some options which include the 105 Landcruiser or a 70 series double cab.

    I want something I can keep till the end of my days, but mainly only use for weekend's away or overlanding trips, not really for daily driving.

    What would you guys recommend? Are the above two good options? Would you choose something else? It should I just stick with recycling the hiluxes?

    Thanks very much.

    Cheers.

    J
    You're sitting with exactly the vehicle you can rely on until the end of your days. I definitely would spend any more hard earned cash on aother "depreciating bad investment"
    Last edited by rodneykdc; 2021/01/25 at 04:04 AM.
    When faced with the dilemma of being right or being happy , I choose happy every time

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  12. #27
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    Default Re: Advise on a "lifer" overland vehicle

    Seeing that you are 35 a lifer 4x4 need be up to and running for the next 30 and 40 years.
    The Hilux will do for now but I doubt if it will still be suitable 30 years from now.

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  14. #28
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    Default Re: Advise on a "lifer" overland vehicle

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    Seeing that you are 35 a lifer 4x4 need be up to and running for the next 30 and 40 years.
    The Hilux will do for now but I doubt if it will still be suitable 30 years from now.
    This was exactly why I thought if your annual mileage are not going to be too high, a good solid cruiser with some serious maintenance somewhere in that 30 odd years should see you to the end, and all your expenditure on mods will not be wasted. You would need a daily driver though.
    Barry Hall

    Land Cruiser 105

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  16. #29
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    Default Re: Advise on a "lifer" overland vehicle

    We faced the same question a few years ago and chose a Land Cruiser 76. We prefer the station wagon to a double cab layout and since we are going to keep it until we get too old to enjoy it, it needs to be a Toyota. We had just sold our stock standard 18 year old Prado at 320,000km for 50% of its original purchase price-and the buyer is still happy.

    Unless you have a vehicle which you do not like, which no longer suits your needs, or has not been well maintained I would stick with the Hilux-particularly if it is standard in the engine bay. I don't buy into the resale value argument. Provided you have a mainstream make and model and maintain the vehicle well, the most economical lifetime cost is always going to be to keep it going for as long as possible. If you want reliability and peace of mind that you will find parts for it in Africa, buy a Toyota product. And if you really want it to last long, don't be modifying the motor.

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