What do I need

[Craigm]

Hi Craigm and others,
I seriously doubt that a geyser controller will save much, provided the geyser isolation is intact.

I used an Ellies efergy monitor to track my geyser consumption on normal use for a couple weeks to get my baseline. I bought a geyserwise Tse for R650 and installed it myself (electrician gave thumbs up and coc).

Normal usage saw the geyser work hard when water was used, with multiple top ups during the day and one or two at night.

With the geyserwise, I set the temp for my morning shower to the temp that I need to only use the hot water tap. It doesn't take long to get to desired temp. In the afternoon, I heat it hotter for the wife, so it's ready when she needs it. No random topping up when we run the kids bath or do the dishes. Those unecessary top ups are where the potential saving are.

Like I say, I've done the sums and there's a consistent saving for me of around 30% per day for normal use.

With the controller, I can see how much the temp drops when not in use. It's really not much when idle, a degree or 2 in summer. Some afternoon it even gains a degree or 2!

[ekkekan]

I want to start saving money on electricity.
What do I need to run my house lights and 220v fridges.
What else /low cost can I utilize to start saving.
Jacques

As you already have inverters to cover LS you can cut the day time power used by fridges and other standing loads by going the solar route with the highest return. No capital for batteries which would need replacement.

My actual figures purely for saving as per your brief is as follows.
Grid tied inverter R5000
Solar panels total to increase solar contribution R8000
No changes to DB as the inverter just connects in parallel to the grid.
Saving over 18 months R5300. Inverter paid for itself.
I started with 2 panels just to cover my fridges during sun periods. Inverter only loaded to 33%.
After having good real time stats for a year I added a 3rd panel due to extra freezer. Recently I added 2 more panels and can still add another one.
Currently the solar takes care of 50% of my consumption in summer time. In winter the solar portion is only 25% lower. In winter we don't use much power for heating except electric blankets.
One point we often overlook if we have old high energy fridges is the fact that they can use 33% of total. My lights were measured at only 10kWh per month and thus low on my list for trying to save. I still have some CFLs and LED lights.

@Morne - Skip. Not all systems are equal and I am sure you haven't looked at a battery-less grid tied only. It can save the total cost in less than 30 months. The other night I chatted to an installer and he indicated most people are not using the opportunity grid tied provides for cutting grid use.

My system used is on the approved list so no problem getting it approved.

Willem01 can also provide you with info about his system that also saves 50%. He has a larger inverter and more and larger panels than mine. His load includes aircons and pool pump which I don't have. Total cost about R20 000.

[Willem01]

Willem01 can also provide you with info about his system that also saves 50%. He has a larger inverter and more and larger panels than mine. His load includes aircons and pool pump which I don't have. Total cost about R20 000.

Thats the correct figure on initial cost layout, calculated that the system would pay itself off in 20 months, was only installed beginning of October, when using 1 a/c once or twice in the week and the stove once a week baking, my usual units per month was average on 730 sometimes up to 900 after the initial solar install it dropped to 305 units including using the stove much more often including the other 2 a/c's (3 in total) not all used on the same time but much more often in the day.
My pool pump run also only every 2nd day for 4 hours, geyser is also set on a timer to come on twice a day,

I did a lot of welding for a project and thought I was going to pay a lot on electricity for the month, to my surprise it was only 300 units in total for the complete month...I was so surprised.

Get a power meter to see how much watt you use per day on which devices, Must mention we are 4 in the household and Pta region, as stated in other threads you guy's in the south coast does get more and better sun and you will save more with solar.
Lights are all energy saver bulbs from (pick n pay, cheapies) and fridge and 2 deep freezers are as old from Noah arc's so they do draw a lot and are also on a timer as they dont work normal anymore (will want to replace them) but for now they still do their job and will keep them as they are the buggers that still chase the units up to 9kwH per day.

[cainslie]

Started saving on average R1900pm over 12 months period, and that no is on the Eskom prices from 3-4 years ago.

Sheesh! Are you running an aluminium smelter?

Our electricity cost is currently R2.22/unit and my bill is under R1000/month including all fees and charges. And I thought it was too high.

Granted, I have a gas geyser and don't run a pool pump, but I pay very little attention to how much electricity I use since I've given up on trying to get the wife and kids to comply...

My A/C runs every night, TV, fridge, freezer, loads of IT equipment always on, power tools, welder & compressor in the garage used regularly, 13kg washing machine, dishwasher almost daily.

I average around 350 to 380 units/month.

Maybe my meter is faulty

[duncang]

Lifestyle changes ?
Mini oven , cold water washing machine, LED globes.
My neighbours always complaining yet their house is like a Xmas tree from 9pm till at least 11.30.
All rooms bright as daylight!!

[Richard Mackay]

I used an Ellies efergy monitor to track my geyser consumption on normal use for a couple weeks to get my baseline. I bought a geyserwise Tse for R650 and installed it myself (electrician gave thumbs up and coc).

Normal usage saw the geyser work hard when water was used, with multiple top ups during the day and one or two at night.

With the geyserwise, I set the temp for my morning shower to the temp that I need to only use the hot water tap. It doesn't take long to get to desired temp. In the afternoon, I heat it hotter for the wife, so it's ready when she needs it. No random topping up when we run the kids bath or do the dishes. Those unecessary top ups are where the potential saving are.

Like I say, I've done the sums and there's a consistent saving for me of around 30% per day for normal use.

With the controller, I can see how much the temp drops when not in use. It's really not much when idle, a degree or 2 in summer. Some afternoon it even gains a degree or 2!

Agreed!
Unfortunately the temperature indication isn't that accurate since it doesn't reflect the temperature for all the water in the geyser due to layering. But one gets used to it.
I went a step further and switch my geyser on/off like a kettle. Once you know when a shower is on the cards you heat the water to its set-point (determined by the Geyserwise)
This happens twice a day. I have installed a kWh meter on the element and have brought the average usage down to less than 5 units per day. (2 old toppies in the house)

[the_terrible_triplett]

Sheesh! Are you running an aluminium smelter?

Our electricity cost is currently R2.22/unit and my bill is under R1000/month including all fees and charges. And I thought it was too high.

Granted, I have a gas geyser and don't run a pool pump, but I pay very little attention to how much electricity I use since I've given up on trying to get the wife and kids to comply...

My A/C runs every night, TV, fridge, freezer, loads of IT equipment always on, power tools, welder & compressor in the garage used regularly, 13kg washing machine, dishwasher almost daily.

I average around 350 to 380 units/month.

Maybe my meter is faulty

Up to that time:
6 people in the house,
2 working from home,
3 geysers with only one on EV tubes,
large gaming PC's the kids invested in,
poolpump,
... till I said: ENOUGH! Why am I the one paying!?


When the grid-tied system got installed, I had DATA!
For a short period of time it was hell for some, for example, at 2am I check and see that 4kw has being use, WHY!?
So I go to the main DB and switch plugs off ... chop chop someone comes to look ... finds me there. But Daaaad, it is cold! My reply: Use a blanket ...

Meter was replaced too as we had to get a PAYG meter for grid-tying and O man, THAT made a difference!
As I pay for units ... and again ... and again, it would get quite "loud" in the house.

When one sees the data per minute, hour, day, week, month, year, trust me when I say, one starts asking a lot of questions ...
That is also where one sees the old fridge and freezer, which you sell and get A+ rated ones.
Instead of one BIG freezer, we got two. As the one empties, switch it off.
The stove, sold and got induction plates.
Kettle, just fill it with enough water for the cup or two one wants ... that took some time.
Geysers all on timers now, heating via grid-tied system during peak sun hours.
Small things adding up.

And then the oepsies:
We had this 4 tube kitchen CFL light. So I though, each tube is 50w, get 11w LED tubes!
Months later, by pure accident, all was in bed, as I was checking some data someone switches on that LED kitchen light.
244W starts being used ... I flipped, LED tubes using 244w, it is supposed to be 44w!!!
Took a while to figure that one out.
Don't just plug in the LED tubes, nope, you HAVE to remove the transformers as well!!!

It is:
a discovery of where power goes.
a lifestyle change.
a journey ... and once it has set it's new course, the savings are quite enjoyable.

Today, with 4.2kw array, 5kva inverter, 7.2kWh lithium bank, we are very VERY close ... just need another battery bank ... but that will be a "HOBBY", a "WANT", most definitely NOT a "NEED".


O, and it was all done over time:
Started with a 930w array, maxed it.
Got 400w extra, maxed that.
Sold it all ...
Started with 350w Canadian Panels, 2.1kw, maxed it.
Added more panels, 3.5kw, maxed that and the 3kva inverter. Sold the inverter, got the 5kva.
Added more panels, 4.2kw array, now I have spare power in summer ,,, maybe I need more batteries ... (cwl)
Waiting to see if the sums where done properly last winter as I needed just 500w more for winter months - IF the sun shines.

... one step at a time, with data to back decisions, as each household is unique.

[rodneykdc]

A friend of mine is very impressed with himself because of the money he saves on electricity. He then goes on to tell me what his monthly gas bill is.
Gas is a great convenience during load shedding, it's definitely not a money saver

[ekkekan]

A friend of mine is very impressed with himself because of the money he saves on electricity. He then goes on to tell me what his monthly gas bill is.
Gas is a great convenience during load shedding, it's definitely not a money saver

While fixing a PCB for someone I learnt he was starting a genny for power. No grid due to massive unsettled bill. I got him a Changi and 4x102Ah batteries. He is super happy.
He used to spend R600pm for fuel and R680pm for gas for the gas fridge. This cost got me to help out as he has no knowledge of electrons.

[fatbike]

While fixing a PCB for someone I learnt he was starting a genny for power. No grid due to massive unsettled bill. I got him a Changi and 4x102Ah batteries. He is super happy.
He used to spend R600pm for fuel and R680pm for gas for the gas fridge. This cost got me to help out as he has no knowledge of electrons.

What size inverter must I look at if I want to run my 2 fridges and some led lights.

[River Rat]

A nice little app to calculate what you need https://shop.thesunpays.co.za/pages/...ing-calculator

[the_terrible_triplett]

What size inverter must I look at if I want to run my 2 fridges and some led lights.

To illustrate how long the piece of string is:
Say you have 200w of LED lights when all the light are on, get a 300w inverter.
Say the 2 fridges, when they run simultaneously, need 1k (500w x 2), then you need a 1.5kw inverter.
... don't want to run a inverter at more the 80% consistently.

BUT, the small print:
When the 2 fridges start up, say each need 2kw to start, and it so happens that both start at the same moment when all the lights are on, combined you need 2 x 2kw + 300w = 4.3kw.
So now you need a 4.5kw min to start the fridges AND power the lights at the same time - or the inverter switches off to protect itself.

So the questions are:
1) Total wattages of all the lights on at the same time?
2) Startup current per fridge?
3) Running watts per fridge?

[RiccoS]

Okay here I go and please keep in mind I'm no professional. I did the testing over a period of a month with some ellies energy meter and then worked from there, needless to say my house, or we are fairly economical users. Decided on 4x 200Ah AGM batteries and a 5kW inverter, and this was just as a backup not to save money in any way due to not having solar panels, the cost of the panels did not justify the tiny saving during the day. The system's been treating me well, I stay in Mogale City and our load shedding is 4.5 hours at a time if and when we get and my house runs 24/7 via the inverter meaning no flick over when load shedding start as I have a mini server running at my house. The system runs my whole house except the geyser and pool pump and I have a Eskom plug in my garage for the washing machine, tumble dryer and tools and we use gas in the kitchen. We manage to run about 5.5 - 6.5 hours during the day, working day, so basically the mini server, 1x 27" Mac, laptops, extra screens, ink tank printer and then the other normal stuff like the fridges, CCTV, alarm, router, etc. We do not run AC or electrical heaters in the house. And this is not using more than 25% of my batteries (75% SOC).

After owning the system for almost a year I started thinking what about going off grid and I started with the calculations based on my experience with what I have and the long and the short is it is just not worth it. If you have money and want to keep the lights on in load shedding and the odd thunder storm but do not want the rumbling generator in the background do it but to save money don't. Our average usage is +/- 800 units per month over the last 5 years, with the rates Mogale City charges us and the fixed charge fee, doing the calculation based on paying the setup over 8 years as you need to start thinking about replacing batteries etc. between 8 and 10 years I found this. If I still need to pay Mogale the fixed charge fee of +/- R420 per month which will increase every year, meaning I'm not completely disconnected but not using any Eskom power then you will be worse off money wise, if you disconnect completely and do not have to pay the fixed charge you will almost break even. Yes but electricity increase every year you may ask, yes but batteries and solar panels also increase and remember you will need to replace these every 8 to 10 years.

So for me in Mogale City with an average usage of +/- 800 units per month including the things I will have to change if I want to go off grid eg. geyser and pool pump it was just not worth the cost. But paying the +/- R35000 to DIY my own system and keep the lights on was worth it for me as I'm working from home.

Like I said I'm no professional and I did everything myself, testing, calculations and the actual installation. Split my DB board in 2, one Eskom line and one Inverter line and everything being compliant. There might be a bunch of people on here that knows more and actually do installations but mine have proven itself over the last 10 months and it works.

[Lammie]

I did not do any sums. We Live in a small suburb, about 30 houses, on the border of Gauteng and Mpumalanga. The supply cable gets repossesed regularly leaving us in the dark for at least 3 days at a time.

I bought a 24V 3Kw hybrid inverter kit. {2 x 330 Watt panels in parallell with 2 x 100Ah batteries}
This is connected to all my lights. Outside is 10 energy savers on for the night, also 15 energy savers and the inside only on until we go to sleep, 2 fans included

I installed this Last week so no real data yet.
All I know is that all of my lights is powered from solar and it sometimes reach 25%load and I will have light when stuff go wrong. The inside lights gets powered straight from the solar panels during the day

I will add 2 more panels and batteries and connect the living room and fridge.

I already have a gas stove, use 2 x9kg per year and will install a 150lt solar geaser inline with the current Electric.

[omkeerpunt]

I live alone so maybe it is just much easier for me. I have a 270watt solar panel on the roof, a 12v lithium battery with a small charge controller and a 600watt Ellies invertor. In total it cost me R12k. All my lights, computers, phone chargers and the fridge/freezer get fed from the lithium battery. Only on really dark cloudy days do I need to change over to eskom power. The rest of the time the battery is fully charged by 1-2 in the afternoon and until 5 the solar panel carries the load. I never have Eishkom putting out my lights. My beer is always cold and my steaks always frozen. A small camping gas stove heats my kettle for countless cups of tea during the day. O and the geyser is on my neighbour's circuit but please don't tell him. I only do my minimalist cooking on an induction plate from Eskom power.

It means that I have 40kwh of free electricity most months and the convenience of being unaffected by Eishkom's antics. Will it pay off my initial capital cost? I dont know and I don't care. It works for me.

[ekkekan]

What size inverter must I look at if I want to run my 2 fridges and some led lights.

If you ask for saving during day time a 1kW would be fine. As it always happens you might want to run more than the fridges and LED lights so you have a choice of 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5kW models and they only need 60V to start and 50V to run during the day. This is for the Solis mini 4G grid tied. This means 2 x 270W panels or larger. From 3kW and up you would need 120V to start and 90V to run which is 3 to 4 panels.
These are approved to install on the grid.
If you go for 2.5kW you can always use it for a geyser with 2kW element. The great thing with these grid tied units is that if you reach the maximum of the inverter the rest is drawn from the grid. You also don't need to worry about starting current as the peaks are supplied by the grid for the about 2 seconds.

[idmclaggan]

Uhm, guys, since when is gas free?

It is simply a case of transferring the expense from the "Eskom Costs" column to the "Gas Costs" column in the "books".

Gas is NOT a saver in my books.
It merely ensures you can make coffee, shower, cook when Eskom is off ... uhm, wait, but I can do all that without Eskom and gas.

No seriously, saying gas is the answer to save on Eskom costs, are misleading.

I agree to what is said here. The fact is that electricity is still cheaper than GAS. If you don't believe me, go and do the maths. Yes, gas maybe more reliable - re: load shedding? But NOT cheaper.

[Daen]

Solar water heating would be my first project. Thre are EXTREMELY efficient , and much of your electricity bill goes into heating water...

[DrJohn]

Thanks guys for all the helpful info.I will start with changing all bulbs and turning down geyser temp. Anyone able to tell me what led bulbs cause the cheapies is crap.

I bought mine from Lighting Warehouse. They had a year guarantee and had one or two LED's clocking out which they replaced no problem. To change all my lights to LED's prolly cost me R15k

[DrJohn]

Solar water heating would be my first project. Thre are EXTREMELY efficient , and much of your electricity bill goes into heating water...

I have a tube type solar geyser. Piece of crap as nobody knows how to install it properly. Did an Eksdom project with my lassie on solar heating and the advantages. Saved about R350 rand a month in summer and R50 a month in winter (using Sasol engineering help with the calcs!) Then got a heat pump...man that thing was great! Cost R18k, saved electricity immediately and broke, moer toe, after three years. Took it out as an element was easier to maintain. All the savings gone...kaput. Had to have it serviced yearly, nobody tells you that. I would guess that gas is better but the geyser also costs R18k and probably only last 5 years?I have a nice engineered solar system, R300k worth for a 4 kilowatt system. Can share a ###### lot about that.