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  1. #181
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    Quote Originally Posted by Olyfboer View Post
    The use of a reduction gearbox on a high speed electric motor will result in a higher torque output from the gearbox. Same reason first gear on an ICE vehicle is easier to pull away with than in a higher gear.

    Using an epicyclic gearbox will save massively on space too.
    Reduction gears are torque multipliers that I know very well. I make a living from Electrics. Have seen in the last few years how mechanicals get replaced with high torque soft starters for electric motors.

    Reading many articles on EV`s direct motor drives were mentioned as a norm.
    In the field I work the definition of a direct drive would be an electric motor connected directly to a machine with no mechanicals other than a coupling in between them.

    Thought it were only Haul trucks and Loco`s that make use reduction gears on their electric drive sets to get heavy loads to move.

    Seems that my thoughts were wrong with what is meant by EV direct motor drive Had this vision in my mind of fancy in hub electronic controlled motors. That is what I understood from what I have read.
    Last edited by grips; 2021/01/22 at 05:34 AM.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

  2. #182
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    Finnish company developed special hydraulic motor. One per wheel including what is towed. It was designed for army trucks. Tow 130/150 mm cannon and blokes switched off the motors on the truck. Still going. Finns played tricks with these trucks. Drove them of top of rocks during UN peace keeping missions. Foreign top brass were asking "Which helicopter was used to lift the truck?" Would be perfect 4x4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisu_Nemo

    That 5 min battery charging time is in a article I did read this morning. According to it 5 min is for the full battery and not per cell. Article says 5 min full and at the same text giving 160 km range. Charge station power demand is high.

    There are many new battery technologies coming. Higher power, long lasting, fast charge, price down... The one who gets it right will earn billions. If car companies like Toyota do not get it right cars of the future will have brand names we do not know today. Remember how quickly Nokia went down because they selected wrong technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    Hydrostatic drives can also be used but more in an industrial environment.

    Hydraulic motors create the final drive and the hydraulic pump with swash plate is driven by an electric motor. Its a bit convoluted but possibly a better/simpler option than synchronising electric motors with a controller and pots.
    Jouko
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  4. #183
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    Tesla has updates Model S. There are actually couple models. You can choose 1000 or 1100 hp. Acceleration 0 to 100 km/h 2 sec or below. Driving range up to 840 km depending which model. Charge time using Tesla Super charge station from empty to full under one hour. Top speed around 320 km/h. Price in USA starts at $80 000.00

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/...684802/photo/1

    This is not a sports car. Nice saloon. I have travelled in the original model. It was comfortable trip and not back breaking sports car.

    https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-s
    Jouko
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  5. #184
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    I'm enduring loadshedding at the moment.
    Got me thinking of what type of load electric vehicles could put on our wonky electricity grid.
    It seems that every Tesla owner is likely to add the equivalent of 9 x 200L geysers to the grid if it is recharged at 12kWh for 6 hours. That is 3 x 4kWh elements. It takes about 2 hours to heat up a 200L geyser, so during the 6 hours you could have heated up 3 x 3 geysers. And this is for a humble 75kW Tesla.

  6. #185
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    You looking at it wrong. Agreed it will never work if just added to the existing model in isolation.

    Your Tesla becomes part of your battery bank/Powerwall. And you use and capture the stored energy in the most efficient way possible.

    Realistically you will only use 25% of the cars battery capacity a day going to work and back (for people who still do this)

    The solar brings in whatever it does each day to add to the system.

    You use time of use charging, for when grid electricity is in the most abundant and cheapest to supply the rest. (most likely midnight to 4pm)

    If configured correctly, it will eliminate the peaks in the grid which is where most of the problems come from.

    The cars capacity can also be used in emergency to supply the home.
    Last edited by Quiksilver; 2021/02/05 at 03:25 PM.
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  7. #186
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    I can only imagine how many super charger stations you'll need at the Ultra City at Bloem during December holidays...

    Each bay occupied for 45-60min at a time...
    2011 VW Amarok BiTDI DC 4Motion
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  8. #187
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiksilver View Post
    You looking at it wrong. Agreed it will never work if just added to the existing model in isolation.

    Your Tesla becomes part of your battery bank/Powerwall. And you use and capture the stored energy in the most efficient way possible.

    Realistically you will only use 25% of the cars battery capacity a day going to work and back (for people who still do this)

    The solar brings in whatever it does each day to add to the system.

    You use time of use charging, for when grid electricity is in the most abundant and cheapest to supply the rest. (most likely midnight to 4pm)

    If configured correctly, it will eliminate the peaks in the grid which is where most of the problems come from.

    The cars capacity can also be used in emergency to supply the home.
    Sure. I understand the possible solutions, but I don't want to spend a quarter of a million to reconfigure my whole house's electicity setup to be able to drive a Tesla. I want to go out and buy a Tesla (to save on fuel expenses and to do my bit for our fragile eco-system) and at night plug it in to charge.

  9. #188
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    Quote Originally Posted by RoelfleRoux View Post
    I'm enduring loadshedding at the moment.
    Got me thinking of what type of load electric vehicles could put on our wonky electricity grid.
    It seems that every Tesla owner is likely to add the equivalent of 9 x 200L geysers to the grid if it is recharged at 12kWh for 6 hours. That is 3 x 4kWh elements. It takes about 2 hours to heat up a 200L geyser, so during the 6 hours you could have heated up 3 x 3 geysers. And this is for a humble 75kW Tesla.
    That is exactly why it will not work in SA. Our city grids are already under strain because they are adding new loads to the grid without upgrading the grid. Eskom is battling already, so has no spare capacity.

    It would have pre 94 when all power stations were running as they should, with plenty of spare capacity. Not now. Not in our lifetime.
    Mike Lauterbach

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  11. #189
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    As some other posters pointed out if you charge your EV over night when demand is at its lowest it's not going to impact the grid at all but I can see as EV uptake increases many people will drive the whole day and want/need to charge their vehicles the minute they get home from work when demand is at peak.

    Wherever you are in the world, once EVs become widely adopted the bulk of the Ev charging will probably have to be staggered to non peak hours, lower rates will perhaps also make that attractive.

  12. #190
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    Seems at some stage not too far away there may not BE a choice...??

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-56072019

    Jaguar Land Rover's Jaguar brand will be all-electric by 2025, the carmaker has said.


    The company will launch electric models of its entire Jaguar and Land Rover line-up by 2030, it added.


    The firm said it would keep all three of its three British plants open as part of its new strategy.


    But it has dropped plans to build an electric version of its XJ saloon at the Castle Bromwich plant, meaning the site will eventually stop making cars.


    Chief executive Thierry Bolloré said the plant would focus instead on "non-production" activities in the long term, without giving details.


    The company plans to spend about £2.5bn a year on new technology for its cars.

    Rob Kirk

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    0-60km/h in about 10s (downhill), Top speed - 100km/h (on a steeper downhill)
    Ground clearance : 125mm on 16-inch rims
    Tare : 134kg, GVM : 250kg (approx), GCM : 250kg (approx), Towing capacity : 0kg
    Best of all : 4L/100km, town driving and pinning it...

  13. #191
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    Thats an ambitions plan. Yesterday texans found out what over reliance on being a granny beanie is all about when they power went off in the middle of an ice storm.

    I think electric cars makes a lot of sense as a third car for most south african families. You can use it to run to the office and back or do the school run. But a car needs to do more than that, and we are not ready for that in this country, especially with the typical users of this forum, that are driving miles to out of the way places with little to no infrastructure.

    Norway has the biggest uptake but this is heavily skewed by huge subsidies.

    They will remain nice toys for the rich. Lets see when the typical polo buyer starts taking them up at scale and when we have the infrastructure to support them.

    I think JLR are going to be in for some rude sales numbers moving forward, and not not the upside.

  14. #192
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    Quote Originally Posted by stephenplumb View Post
    Thats an ambitions plan. Yesterday texans found out what over reliance on being a granny beanie is all about when they power went off in the middle of an ice storm.

    I think electric cars makes a lot of sense as a third car for most south african families. You can use it to run to the office and back or do the school run. But a car needs to do more than that, and we are not ready for that in this country, especially with the typical users of this forum, that are driving miles to out of the way places with little to no infrastructure.

    Norway has the biggest uptake but this is heavily skewed by huge subsidies.

    They will remain nice toys for the rich. Lets see when the typical polo buyer starts taking them up at scale and when we have the infrastructure to support them.

    I think JLR are going to be in for some rude sales numbers moving forward, and not not the upside.
    I agree. But the sentence that also jumped out to me from the article was : The UK plans to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030.

    Is this the start of a trend??
    Rob Kirk

    Amarok V6.
    Sym 200 scooter 2 x 1, CVT transmission, 4V OHC, 11.4 kW, 15NM
    0-60km/h in about 10s (downhill), Top speed - 100km/h (on a steeper downhill)
    Ground clearance : 125mm on 16-inch rims
    Tare : 134kg, GVM : 250kg (approx), GCM : 250kg (approx), Towing capacity : 0kg
    Best of all : 4L/100km, town driving and pinning it...

  15. #193
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ama-newbie View Post
    I agree. But the sentence that also jumped out to me from the article was : The UK plans to ban the sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030.

    Is this the start of a trend??
    I think the climate religion has such vociferous adherents, that anything is possible. Anyone that dares to question the religion is instantly cast out as a zealot and racist nazi biggot.

    Lets not forget that global freezing was the big threat in the 60s, then the religion changed to global warming, and when that did not pan out it is now just climate change. Interesting that everything and nothing can be attributable to "climate change." So with no objective measures, everything can be trotted out as causal.

    Given that the religious zealots driving the democrat party in the US have declared the end of the world at less than 12 years away, and we are already 2 years into that, i wonder what the narrative will be once we get to the 12 years and discover that most of us still exist?

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  17. #194
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    Quote Originally Posted by stephenplumb View Post
    Thats an ambitions plan. Yesterday texans found out what over reliance on being a granny beanie is all about when they power went off in the middle of an ice storm.

    I think electric cars makes a lot of sense as a third car for most south african families. You can use it to run to the office and back or do the school run. But a car needs to do more than that, and we are not ready for that in this country, especially with the typical users of this forum, that are driving miles to out of the way places with little to no infrastructure.

    Norway has the biggest uptake but this is heavily skewed by huge subsidies.

    They will remain nice toys for the rich. Lets see when the typical polo buyer starts taking them up at scale and when we have the infrastructure to support them.

    I think JLR are going to be in for some rude sales numbers moving forward, and not not the upside.
    Eskom....
    Tax on solar....

    Our government can't manage this, and will try to eek out some more from the cash cow.

    South Africa will become Africa first, before it can grow again.

  18. #195
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    Not one of these projections has taken the military into consideration. Can anyone see the military having a portable solar station with batteries where the vehicles have to return to to charge at night? Take that out and you win the war.

  19. #196
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    Quote Originally Posted by RoelfleRoux View Post
    Sure. I understand the possible solutions, but I don't want to spend a quarter of a million to reconfigure my whole house's electicity setup to be able to drive a Tesla. I want to go out and buy a Tesla (to save on fuel expenses and to do my bit for our fragile eco-system) and at night plug it in to charge.
    OK sure, but then you are better off not buying the Tesla and just upgrading your home, as it will do more to save money and the planet than replacing ICE car will. (in South Africa energy mix at least)
    Last edited by Quiksilver; 2021/02/18 at 10:30 AM.
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  20. #197
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    I'm holding thumbs for e-fuels.

    Name:  WhatsApp Image 2021-02-17 at 22.01.31.jpg
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  21. #198
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    Quote Originally Posted by JS-V8 View Post
    I'm holding thumbs for e-fuels.

    Name:  WhatsApp Image 2021-02-17 at 22.01.31.jpg
Views: 39
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    Prototype stage. Hasn't even been produced yet but they have high hopes. Just because VW and Bentley discussed it doesn't mean anything.

    CO2 has never been the problem. Climate alarmists propaganda completely debunked already.

    No byproducts? So it transcends all known technology including the laws of thermodynamics, chemical science, energy science and atomic theory?

  22. #199
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    Quote Originally Posted by Olyfboer View Post
    CO2 has never been the problem. Climate alarmists propaganda completely debunked already.
    This is why I do not get involved in the whole climate change/CO2/Green/etc discussion.

    We went off-grid, bought an electric vehicle and replaced as many of our small petrol engines on the farm as possible with electric motors for 2 reasons alone.

    1. Financial: Immediate monthly saving, with even more savings in the long run
    2. Security: Independence from Eskom/government/future price hikes (electricity and fuel)/fuel shortages/part shortages/recession/pick you poison.

    The fact that my house is also worth more now, I have no load shedding, I have less maintenance issues, silent operations of power tools, driving pleasure of electric vehicle and so on is just a bonus.
    Dirk Lombard
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  24. #200
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    Default Re: Those who said, electric vehicle, NEVER!

    Quote Originally Posted by Olyfboer View Post
    Not one of these projections has taken the military into consideration. Can anyone see the military having a portable solar station with batteries where the vehicles have to return to to charge at night? Take that out and you win the war.
    I saw a video this month about all the new technologies developed by the military with now drivers/pilots. Tanks, drones, robots and so on. Was wondering the same thing, how do they charge once back at the base? I assume you can also take out a base with fuel supplies?
    Dirk Lombard
    Mercedes-Benz GL350cdi
    BMW i3 (Full Electric)

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