1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent) - Page 2





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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    So I too do not want too battle when the grandbuddies are ready to ski or I have 8 passengers on a cruise.

    Today closed the deal on a Panache 1850 LX with Yamaha 200 V Max hanging off the back. In with the new and out with the old.

    So now need to sell my 18'6" Interceptor Cabin Boat with 130 V4 Yamaha, will be sorry to see her go.

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    Last edited by Andrew Leigh; 2021/01/08 at 01:04 PM.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    My sister and I bought this Classic 170 with a 125HP 2 stroke last year.

    Im 110kg and it pulls me out easily on slalom, although that is at sea level.
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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    Quote Originally Posted by TOY4X4 View Post
    LOL, in my student days we did very similar with a Mini Raven with a 90 Mariner.
    Ek was so Graad 6/7, my (oorlede) boetie en sy pelle was BAIE stoute bliksempies op skool. Mense van Bethlehem sal onthou.

    Anyway - hulle het daai jare so ou houtboot ding gebou en besluit op 'n inboard, sit toe 'n Alfa enjin in, ek die enjin was sommer so oop in die boot en jy kon al die moving parts sien. Ja ons het baie Engeltjies by ons gehad, anders was almal nou al laaaaankal langbome toe.

    Later besluit hulle toe daai Alfa se gat is pap, en score toe 'n ou V8 Ford by Leon se pa wat mechanic was.

    Sadly was die V8 so bietjie top heavy, die boot het omgeneuk net daar digby Lock Athlone se damwal, en dit was die einde van die prentjie.

    Boot se naam was " Suzie-Wong ".............RIP, Sus, jyt jou deel gedoen
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  5. #24
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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    Quote Originally Posted by LandyAndy View Post
    My sister and I bought this Classic 170 with a 125HP 2 stroke last year.

    Im 110kg and it pulls me out easily on slalom, although that is at sea level.
    Pravesh is a GREAT guy.......you bought from him??
    "Yes, I have a Bad Habit. I take Tea at Three".........Mick Jagger

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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    Quote Originally Posted by Petri Oosthuizen View Post
    Pravesh is a GREAT guy.......you bought from him??
    No. Met him there, but we dealt with Greg. One of the better sales experiences I've had. He was on the ball, did what he said he would, delivered when he said he would.

    Natal Powerboat and Marine. Good company to deal with.
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  8. #26
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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    Quote Originally Posted by Petri Oosthuizen View Post
    Bought this one...........Pics are a bit dated, its really SUPER clean. Price outdated, too......

    Trolling motor clips off completely, also the table etc etc.

    Not crazy about that purple windscreen maar toemaar wat.

    https://www.gumtree.co.za/a-boats-je...80911445382309
    Congrats, and I wish you many happy hours of fun with her...

    Of course I hate you for reminding me how much fun I used to have with mine; but I'm getting a bit long in the tooth now - well, for slalom anyway...

    Geniet...
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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Leigh View Post
    Sell it to Petri .

    My 130 has carbs?

    Attachment 601613
    Interesting... I was going by what the dealer told me when I bought the boat.

    Or maybe I have become senile and actually also have the 130HP? My previous boat was an Arrow with a Mercury straight 6 115HP.


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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    115 en 130 Yammies is altwee carb sover ek weet.

    Dink die 130 het groter carb en venturi's op.
    "Yes, I have a Bad Habit. I take Tea at Three".........Mick Jagger

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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    BOAT = Bust Out Another Thousand

    I had one loved every thing about it. Sold it an got a bigger Sundowner with 200HP. Kids wanted a tower fitted and Fazer was to small.
    Last edited by Long John; 2021/01/08 at 03:58 PM.
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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    Looks like Nigel Boats.

    So you bought a 4 blade, did you go down in pitch due to the additional blade?

    If the 4 blade struggle then honestly look at Trim Tabs.

    So getting on the plane requires that you trim the motor fully towards the transom so that the force generated by the propeller drives the boat forward and up and not have the bow up. Seen so many people try get out the water with a motor trimmed away from the stern. So given this, ski towers are tall and well above the center of gravity of the boat. On hole shot, the resistance of the skier will result in bow lift. So you may wish to try something different, drop the height of the ski rope where it attaches to the boat.

    I do not have a ski pole on my boat for tube towing and I use this;


    It attaches to the u-bolts on the stern that are used for securing the boat to the trailer. This way the force vector is in line with the direction that the motor is trying to take. If you have sufficient power then you should be able to improve you pop out time.

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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Leigh View Post
    Looks like Nigel Boats.

    So you bought a 4 blade, did you go down in pitch due to the additional blade?

    If the 4 blade struggle then honestly look at Trim Tabs.

    So getting on the plane requires that you trim the motor fully towards the transom so that the force generated by the propeller drives the boat forward and up and not have the bow up. Seen so many people try get out the water with a motor trimmed away from the stern. So given this, ski towers are tall and well above the center of gravity of the boat. On hole shot, the resistance of the skier will result in bow lift. So you may wish to try something different, drop the height of the ski rope where it attaches to the boat.

    I do not have a ski pole on my boat for tube towing and I use this;


    It attaches to the u-bolts on the stern that are used for securing the boat to the trailer. This way the force vector is in line with the direction that the motor is trying to take. If you have sufficient power then you should be able to improve you pop out time.
    WOW Andrew thanks man!!

    I havent yet bought the 4 blade, they're out of stock. So what do I get, 17 again, or one lower/higher??

    Trim tabs - you talking about those "aqua plane" jobbies??

    Your advise re the ski rope to the u-bolts makes perfect sense - its a more " direct in line " power thing then, thanks!!!!!!
    "Yes, I have a Bad Habit. I take Tea at Three".........Mick Jagger

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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    Looks like Nigel Boats.

    Andrew, those pics are dated, when the Seller bought this from them about a year ago.

    Nigel Boats has closed down, and started another place " Boat Boutique" in Heidelberg.

    I actually stopped at NBoats yesterday to have a look see, and saw the building empty with a huge " auction sale" banner on it.

    Googled to find them, and then purely by accident stumbled upon this on Gumtree.
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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    Quote Originally Posted by Petri Oosthuizen View Post
    WOW Andrew thanks man!!

    I havent yet bought the 4 blade, they're out of stock. So what do I get, 17 again, or one lower/higher??

    Trim tabs - you talking about those "aqua plane" jobbies??

    Your advise re the ski rope to the u-bolts makes perfect sense - its a more " direct in line " power thing then, thanks!!!!!!
    So before you order you need to establish your WOT (wide open throttle) rpm of the existing boat and propeller combination. This will tell you where to go with the 4 blade pitch. So sit on the 4 blade order and do some testing before you order.

    So when you have your WOT rpm lets talk. Remember a 2 stroke relies on very high revs for maximum power and we need to make sure that your motor propeller combo is spot on as it is currently marginal.

    Nice boat, good luck with her.

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  18. #34
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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    We need the WOT rpm. At 5000rpm with a 17" prop Yamaha suggests that with a ski boat used for watersports that a 13.25 diameter 14" pitch prop will do the business.

    How fast do you need to pull a slalom skier?

    Yamaha.net (yamahapropselector.com)
    Last edited by Andrew Leigh; 2021/01/08 at 07:41 PM. Reason: Added link

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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    Update...............we've used it over the weekend on our local dam............a LOT, Hours are now at 58 and not 55 any more

    SUPER happy, it really delivers far more than expected.

    Got it with a nice sound system, marine speakers, professional job, and expensive (R 22000.............crazy!!) 46 LBS Motor Guide troller, not really needed but nice to have. It also has hydraulic steering - nice, but something to get used to. Also a removable little table in the bow, and a bass seat on the transom ski bar, everything easy to remove. Nice and easy boat cover. New canopy, very easy to use and very solid.

    It hits 66km/h, me alone on boat, I'm more than happy with that - doesn't actually really bother me what top speed is, but ja.

    Pulls Sev (85kg) easily out with one ski.

    ALMOST pulls Jomar (115) out, BUT then he also admits he has slaloméd a while ago, he thinks it might be able to get him out.

    Most importantly - It pulls Jomar at 53 km/h, WAY too fast actually, but it can. Comfy slalom speed is around 43/45km/h, so this baby has quite some "room to spare", and doesn't need WOT with a heavy slalom behind her...........this was my biggest concern, and, as it turned out, totally unnecessary.

    Wake is also flat, and the back stays nice and deep, NO pulling from a slalom behind her.

    Planes VERY quickly, 3/4 seconds. Handles nicely. Boat feels tight and new, that Yamaha is a gem, NO issues.

    Heavyish on fuel, but I knew that - the 115 isn't light. But I'll be more than happy to pay for that extra 10 litres each day, I just really LOVE the Yammie 2stroke, always have. Then again we did use it a LOT yesterday, engine ran more than 2 hours and we used around 60 litres or so, with mostly a slalom or wakeboard behind it. I'm more than happy with that, too

    SUPER easy to launch and retrieve, SUPER light and easy handling, I really LOVE the 17' boat size.

    Idles a tad high, but easy to sort.

    I think with planing fins and a new prop this will be even more perfect.

    But ja, SUPER happy this side.

    THANKS A MILL for all Inputs in here, it has been VERY helpful believe me.
    Last edited by Petri Oosthuizen; 2021/01/10 at 09:49 PM.
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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Leigh View Post
    So I too do not want too battle when the grandbuddies are ready to ski or I have 8 passengers on a cruise.

    Today closed the deal on a Panache 1850 LX with Yamaha 200 V Max hanging off the back. In with the new and out with the old.

    So now need to sell my 18'6" Interceptor Cabin Boat with 130 V4 Yamaha, will be sorry to see her go.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    We had a 186 in the family from new for 35 years. Had a v4 140 Yamaha. They are gems. Wish I had they money back then to keep her in the family.

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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Leigh View Post
    So before you order you need to establish your WOT (wide open throttle) rpm of the existing boat and propeller combination. This will tell you where to go with the 4 blade pitch. So sit on the 4 blade order and do some testing before you order.

    So when you have your WOT rpm lets talk. Remember a 2 stroke relies on very high revs for maximum power and we need to make sure that your motor propeller combo is spot on as it is currently marginal.

    Nice boat, good luck with her.
    Testing WOT.......how?? Physically, on the water?? It does have a Yamaha RPM gauge.

    If so, then test it it full blast, right?? With trim down, or trim up (max speed).........??

    The Guy who ALWAYS services my boats, Willem Tromp from Nigel, reckons I should stay with 17' prop "want dis soos hulle uitgekom het".....and I do like that approach myself, must say, BUT if we can get more " out of the pot " oomph, why not.

    Thanks a MILL man.
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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    Quote Originally Posted by Petri Oosthuizen View Post
    Testing WOT.......how?? Physically, on the water?? It does have a Yamaha RPM gauge.

    If so, then test it it full blast, right?? With trim down, or trim up (max speed).........??

    The Guy who ALWAYS services my boats, Willem Tromp from Nigel, reckons I should stay with 17' prop "want dis soos hulle uitgekom het".....and I do like that approach myself, must say, BUT if we can get more " out of the pot " oomph, why not.

    Thanks a MILL man.
    The test should be done as follows:

    Load the boat as you would normally for an outing i.e. if you will almost always have 4 people on the boat then load the equivalent weight on it and take it out onto the water. Run at wide open throttle and trim the motor out until it starts porpoising i.e. the bow will start going up and down, then trim it back in until the porpoising goes away. Note the engine RPM and cross reference with the chart in the manual of the motor.

    There is generally a 500RPM range recommended for example between 5000RPM to 5500RPM. If the fully loaded boat runs at the lower end of the recommended range i.e. 5000RPM then you are golden because you wouldn't easily exceed the top RPM limit with an empty vessel. If your boat struggles to get to the lower recommended RPM range when fully loaded then go down a size, it is not good for a motor to have to work too hard and fuel consumption will be terrible to boot, if however you can get to the max RPM easily with a fully loaded boat then you could consider going up a size, keeping in mind you will sacrifice holeshot ability.

    Then, not all props are equal. The pitch is only one part of the equation. Blade design plays an important role in how the boat will perform. There are designs that will generate more speed and others that will generate better torque depending on the intended use.

    The best would be to get a selection of props from a shop who are willing to let you change props until you get the one that works best for your application. We did this on my dad's boat and gained 5KM/H on the top end using a different blade design as opposed to a different pitch.
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  24. #39
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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    BAIE dankie Brandt, waardeer.

    Guys just a sideways question - those aqua planing fins, do they really make a difference??

    I had them on a previous boat, also with a 115......I actually never "tested" it by removing the fins, so cant say for sure?

    Thanks a Mill, once again!!!!!!!!
    "Yes, I have a Bad Habit. I take Tea at Three".........Mick Jagger

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    Default Re: 1st Hand Advise Needed - Fazer 170 Boat (somewhat urgent)

    Quote Originally Posted by Petri Oosthuizen View Post
    BAIE dankie Brandt, waardeer.

    Guys just a sideways question - those aqua planing fins, do they really make a difference??

    I had them on a previous boat, also with a 115......I actually never "tested" it by removing the fins, so cant say for sure?

    Thanks a Mill, once again!!!!!!!!
    It depend what fins you speak of. There is the Hydrofoil that fits to the lower unit of the motor, I don't like these as they put strain on the motor mounts etc. You get the Trim Tabs which most definitely work. These are installed on the transom at the bottom. They made a really big difference on my old boat and WILL buy then again for the new boat.

    Further to Koebelwagen's post, most importantly when you have the WOT speed, the gearbox ratio and the propeller size you can measure the "slip". As he said not all prop's are equal, some are cupped for better efficiency etc, etc. So the slip is the difference between the theoretical speed and the actual speed as the prop has cavitational losses.

    Theoretical Speed = Motor rpm / Gear Ratio x Prop Pitch. So lets assume 5 500rpm, 2:1 Gearbox ratio and a 17" pitch or 431.8mm pitch or 0.4318m pitch.
    5500/2*0.4318 = 1 187.5m/min or 71.25km per hour

    if you only actually get say 60km/hour then the slip of the propeller is ((71.25km/h/60km/h)-1)x100 = 18.75% there are props at 5% slip.

    So now you can try different props and the ones with the lowest slip will have the best hole shot.

    Stainless props have less slip than die cast aluminium props.
    Last edited by Andrew Leigh; 2021/01/11 at 12:59 PM.

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