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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by hunter26 View Post
    Whahaha, 4x4 Low range... I did also did the big mountain drive coming out at Doringkloof camp sites in me old 250d Isuzu 4x2 without using difflock... There again, I'm guessing the Isuzu 1st and 2nd gears are equivalent to the 4x4 low range gears. The old girl just idled up the trail, no wheel spins..
    Coming from the Patensie side we did Baviaans with our 1.5 Terios with 7 foot Venter trailer in tow..I really can't remember any issues we had at the time

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    I have massive mechanical sympathy for vehicles. I don't have the financial luxury to see them as tools. My old 4x4 has to last, and cost me as little as possible. So I try and run with the least strain on components like gearbox and drivetrain and motor.

    I have the luxury of a custom system, where I can select low range, and select between 4wd and 2wd in low range. I try and match gearing to speed so that I can do heavy work in 4th gear. So I often find myself in low range 4th 2wd drive on the farm. But I can go to 4wd on the fly.

    My point is, if you in any way feel the car is struggling, go down a gear, or go low range. Use the tools you have at your disposal, but understand the limitations such as windup on turns. I have a rule where I go 4wd as soon as I go off tar, but I do have gravel roads on the farm that has places which are so well compacted, that 4wd on 33s at 1.4bar does create windup. You get to "feel" what is happening with your vehicle. You just need to understand what it needs, and what to do to work around it.
    David/Hillbilly - 1997 SFA Nissan Sani 2,7 TD - 5" lift on 33" tires - Dual Transfer with 4.1 gears

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  5. #23
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by hein100 View Post
    why u laugh and your point being what?
    A very good sense of humour is needed when driving an old Isuzu 250d :-)
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  7. #24
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by hein100 View Post
    u didnt had to use 4h, just select the off road function and the traction control will do the rest, manual amaroks are very good off road, i have done baboons towing my explorer with my old 120kw amarok and had no issues
    Ive never done Baboons but itís reputation is well known. Towing a heavy off-road caravan would make it even more difficult. Wow, thatís impressive .

    When I was on Holgat, 2 blokes one towing a Conqueror Commander and the other an Echo3 looked like they were having a lot of fun. There are small sections where you can pull over to let others pass which is what I was able to do.

    It made me want to tow the Bush Lapa through the pass too but SWAMBO would have had none of it.
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  8. #25
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by hein100 View Post
    u didnt had to use 4h, just select the off road function and the traction control will do the rest, manual amaroks are very good off road, i have done baboons towing my explorer with my old 120kw amarok and had no issues

    The one in Lesotho

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  10. #26
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    Bearing in mind that I drive an ols Isuzu 4x4 manual box KB 280 and - usually towing the trailer ....
    On anything more than a good gravel or light sand track I use 4x4 HR.
    On deep sand I will use 4x4 LR 2nd gear and possibly diff lock depending on sand condition and depth.
    On loose rocky surfaces, especially on an incline I will use 4x4 LR 1st simply to get max power at lowest possible speed to literally take one rock, one wheel at a time for both Isuzu and trailer.
    I hardly ever use the diff lock, but when you need it, you need it.
    This way the trailer survives the ordeal (mostly).

    It really does depend on your particular vehicle drive train configuration, conditions on the "road" or track and towing vs non-towing and .... well, ja, no fine.
    Tyre pressure would be different for sand vs rocky terrain and also dependent on load.
    Too low = sidewall damage due to sticks etc. in deep sand and sharp rocks i the rocky situation.
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  12. #27
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    The one in Lesotho

    Pictures!!!!
    sorry bavians


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  14. #28
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by hein100 View Post
    sorry bavians
    Oh
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voyageur View Post
    Ive never done Baboons but it’s reputation is well known. Towing a heavy off-road caravan would make it even more difficult. Wow, that’s impressive .

    When I was on Holgat, 2 blokes one towing a Conqueror Commander and the other an Echo3 looked like they were having a lot of fun. There are small sections where you can pull over to let others pass which is what I was able to do.

    It made me want to tow the Bush Lapa through the pass too but SWAMBO would have had none of it.
    sorry was looking at a vid of baboons at the time and corrected my original post , meant baviaans
    Last edited by hein100; 2020/12/18 at 08:50 AM.


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  16. #30
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Voyageur View Post
    but SWAMBO would have had none of it.
    I worry about you..
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  18. #31
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by HugoNotte View Post
    The manual Amarok doesn't have any sort of centre differential, it's selectable 4x4 which locks front and rear axle together, like in most other bakkies, too. That trip, with hairpin turns according to the op, has put a lot of strain on the transfer case.
    How does it lock front and rear diffs?

    Thats why I say its horses for courses, and even more so with age of vehicle.

    For example:

    1) My 1997 Disco 1, permanent 4wd, selectable low range and lockable central diff, no left or right diff locks front or rear. Major wind-up issues.
    2) My 2001 Range Rover P38, permanent 4wd, selectable low range and viscous coupling central diff, traction control. No wind-up.
    3) My 2014 Jeep Cherokee (Liberty), selectable 4wd, no low range, viscous coupling central diff, traction control. No wind-up.
    4) My 2012 Jeep Patriot (Platkar), selectable 4wd, no low range, viscous coupling central diff, traction control. No wind-up
    5) My 2009 Hummer H3, permanent 4wd, 4H, TC no CDL and 4H with TC and lockable CDL, 4L with no TC but with CDL, FDL and RDL. Wind-up (but not as bad as the Disco).

    Many modern vehicles have a viscous coupling, activated when there is slip between front and rear, releasing when there isnt, and TC instead of FDL and CDL. Wind-up will be kept to a minimal, if any, with the modern systems.

    Jeep understood this years ago with their Grand Cherokees and the Quadra-Drive systems.
    Estee = S T = Sean Towlson

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  20. #32
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    How does it lock front and rear diffs?

    Thats why I say its horses for courses, and even more so with age of vehicle.

    For example:

    1) My 1997 Disco 1, permanent 4wd, selectable low range and lockable central diff, no left or right diff locks front or rear. Major wind-up issues.
    2) My 2001 Range Rover P38, permanent 4wd, selectable low range and viscous coupling central diff, traction control. No wind-up.
    3) My 2014 Jeep Cherokee (Liberty), selectable 4wd, no low range, viscous coupling central diff, traction control. No wind-up.
    4) My 2012 Jeep Patriot (Platkar), selectable 4wd, no low range, viscous coupling central diff, traction control. No wind-up
    5) My 2009 Hummer H3, permanent 4wd, 4H, TC no CDL and 4H with TC and lockable CDL, 4L with no TC but with CDL, FDL and RDL. Wind-up (but not as bad as the Disco).

    Many modern vehicles have a viscous coupling, activated when there is slip between front and rear, releasing when there isnt, and TC instead of FDL and CDL. Wind-up will be kept to a minimal, if any, with the modern systems.

    Jeep understood this years ago with their Grand Cherokees and the Quadra-Drive systems.

    Sean, he said front and rear axles... There is no center diff, it has part time 4x4 like normal bakkies. Only the Auto has a center diff
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  22. #33
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    How does it lock front and rear diffs?

    Thats why I say its horses for courses, and even more so with age of vehicle.

    For example:

    1) My 1997 Disco 1, permanent 4wd, selectable low range and lockable central diff, no left or right diff locks front or rear. Major wind-up issues.
    2) My 2001 Range Rover P38, permanent 4wd, selectable low range and viscous coupling central diff, traction control. No wind-up.
    3) My 2014 Jeep Cherokee (Liberty), selectable 4wd, no low range, viscous coupling central diff, traction control. No wind-up.
    4) My 2012 Jeep Patriot (Platkar), selectable 4wd, no low range, viscous coupling central diff, traction control. No wind-up
    5) My 2009 Hummer H3, permanent 4wd, 4H, TC no CDL and 4H with TC and lockable CDL, 4L with no TC but with CDL, FDL and RDL. Wind-up (but not as bad as the Disco).

    Many modern vehicles have a viscous coupling, activated when there is slip between front and rear, releasing when there isnt, and TC instead of FDL and CDL. Wind-up will be kept to a minimal, if any, with the modern systems.

    Jeep understood this years ago with their Grand Cherokees and the Quadra-Drive systems.
    The Amarok 4x4 with the manual gearbox is a selectable 4x4 system. There is a lockable differential on the rear axle, the front diff is open. When in off road mode (there is a button for that, not the 4x4 selector button) the TC sort of makes for "electronic difflocks". Not sure whether that function is still available on the front axle when the real rear diff lock is engaged.
    But driving the manual Amarok in 4x4 on a hard, grippy surface can easily cause windup since the transfer case just connects front and rear axle.

    The by now much more popular Amarok 4Motion with automatic gearbox got a completely different setup. It's a permanent 4wd and doesn't have a dedicated transfer case nor does it have low range. The ZF 8speed automatic got a very low 1st gear, which is in many cases low enough for situations where one would otherwise select 4L in other vehicles. Downside is, there is no low gear for reverse.
    But being a permanent 4wd, it does have a Torsen (?) centre diff.
    Last edited by HugoNotte; 2020/12/18 at 09:19 AM.
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  23. #34
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    I would be more concerned about windup on a concrete surface than LR vs HR.

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  25. #35
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swannie1960 View Post
    We drove down to Sedgefield from Gauteng via Baviaanskloof in my Amarok. Entered at Willowmore and came out on the Patensie side. Going up the mountain where the 2 spoor concrete is, I used 4 wheel drive but did not engage low range. The Amarok conquered the ling steep climb without any problem in 1st gear.

    However, I wondered afterwards what is the best: using high range 1st gear like I did, or going to low range and use 2nd or even perhaps 3rd gear.

    I have to add that this was my first time doing the Baviaans and nothing could prepare me for its size and majestic beauty ...
    The first time i did it it was in low range in a Disco 2.
    I have a few miles under the belt now and would not think of engaging low range on those concrete strips.
    It is to do with experience. It is much safer and more comfortable for a new offroad driver to do this in low range than high range. Never engage diff lock of any sort on concrete strips unless you are stuck and I am not sure how you could get stuck.
    I have done it in a toyota ldv 2wd and a Honda CRV with no issues but not in rainy season

  26. #36
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    Sean, he said front and rear axles... There is no center diff, it has part time 4x4 like normal bakkies. Only the Auto has a center diff
    And thats why I am saying wind-up its horses for courses based on the system and configuration.

    However, and this is for my education and further knowledge, regarding the front and rear axles, my understanding is that the transfer case, takes a single input and splits it between two outputs over varying distances (assume a front mounted engine). The mechanism to allow for a difference in front and rear rotational speed in a permanent 4wd is a diff of some sort.

    If it is part time 4x4, I am then thinking that its default will be to drive the front, or more commonly, the rear wheels with the undriven wheels activating either when required, as in a viscous coupling or through conscious activation of a locking mechanism similar to the Jeep systems.


    Please explain how the part time systems works without a diff for front and rear and why would it get front and rear wind-up if they arent locked?
    Last edited by Estee; 2020/12/18 at 09:40 AM.
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  27. #37
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    Please explain how the part time systems works without a diff for front and rear and why would it get front and rear wind-up if they arent locked?
    The part time 4x4 system in the manual Amarok, like in many other bakkies, works like this:
    2H: rear axle is driven, front drive shaft is disconnected by the transfer case
    4H & 4L: transfer case connects the out put shafts for the front and rear axle with a chain.

    The rear and fron axle do have differentials, but there is a solid connection between the axles's prop shafts (made by the transfer case) when in 4x4.
    Front and rear axle don't travel the same distance, unless the vehicle drives in a straight line. This difference in distance traveled while in 4x4 causes wind up in the axles and prop shafts. On loose ground you can hear wheels slipping during a slow tight turn. On a grippy hard surface it is a lot more difficult for the tyres to slip, hence the drive train sort of gets twisted. Usually the weakest link is the chain inside the transfer case which connects front and rear output shafts. It gets stretched and might even fail.

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    Last edited by HugoNotte; 2020/12/18 at 09:57 AM.
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  29. #38
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by hein100 View Post
    why u laugh and your point being what?
    Ou Hunter and his 4x2 has been on the blunt end of pisstake for years, donít deny him his moment in the sun

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  31. #39
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gungets Tuft View Post
    Ou Hunter and his 4x2 has been on the blunt end of pisstake for years, donít deny him his moment in the sun
    Many moons ago at the Gariep NGTG Hunter and a very experienced 4x4 navigator took his 4x4 Isuzu on a 4x4 outing. With some excellent guidance and line selection he navigated the entire trail and made it home in one piece.

    He's had many moments in the sun. Mostly waiting for a tow.
    Last edited by Fluffy; 2020/12/18 at 10:04 AM.
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  33. #40
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    Default Re: Low Range - yes or no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    Please explain how the part time systems works without a diff for front and rear and why would it get front and rear wind-up if they arent locked?
    You said it yourself:

    "1) My 1997 Disco 1, permanent 4wd, selectable low range and lockable central diff, no left or right diff locks front or rear. Major wind-up issues."

    What you did there was to ELIMINATE the center diff FUNCTION by locking it. Therefore, any difference in rotational speed between the front and rear PINION SHAFTS (the bit connected to the prop shaft) would cause wind-up. This rotational speed difference would occur even if only ONE wheel experienced spin, and due to the nature/action of the diff ON THAT AXLE, it would transfer this DIFFERENTIATED speed to the pinion and hence to the transfer case. It would in effect be similar to taking a corner on a hard surface with your transfer case engaged.

    (If this is not clear, sorry, I can see it in my head but I might not be able to articulate it adequately)
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