2010 Defender 110 2.4 - intermittent starting issues

[scottdurban]

I’m baaaack!

good evening guys! Story time!!

A couple of years ago, I bought myself a 1998 D90, with a BMW M52 engine. I had originally been sold on the idea that it was a 2.8i, but was disappointed to eventually figure out the engine had been replaced due to a bad overheat with the 2.5i variant. I went through starting issues due to fuel starvation, the fuel pump terminals were dirty. That is a whole story, which is covered in quite a lengthy thread. Thank you to all those that contributed and got me in the right direction, I’m only sorry it took me so long to look at the fuel pump after I started replacing crank sensors etc.

Then came the twins. So after Yolandi was all sorted, and driving like a dream, with exhaust work done to make up for the lost cc’s - I sold her to a gentleman out in Namibia. I hope he still enjoys it as much as I did.

Fast forward a couple of years and a VW Caddy Cross Trade in later, I have since purchased a 2010 Defender 110 2.4. Completely unmolested, what I would consider, zero rust, and a very straight body.

The day I took delivery, I drove it a short 30km home, only for it to overheat, limp, and cut out.
Not the best start... It went straight back to a network dealer(purchased the vehicle in JHB, and had it driven to DBN, where I live) where it spent almost 7 weeks getting close to an engine overhaul(cylinder head gasket, water pump, hose replacements, timing chain, radiator flush, expansion tank replacement, and cap replacement, with multiple lab tests and under load road tests, there’s more to add here), to the dealers expense I might add.

I got her back yesterday, and needless to say there are no more issues, regarding heating that is... It now seems to have developed a starter motor issue. Murphy’s law, whenever I don’t need to be somewhere, she starts first time, but when I really need to, only a push start will get it going.

When this first happened I got her home, checked all the relays under the drivers seat, removing and replacing to check contact corrosion. All seemed good. Then tried to crank and she started. So I thought, must’ve been a loose connection, maybe from all the work recently done. Happy days!

Drive to work today, no problem, only smiles less music, because the radio code card has been misplaced, but no stress, I’m in my girl, and I only want to hear the engine for the honeymoon anyway. Drive home, also no issue. I decide to take the longer route from Umhlanga back to Gillitts, via N3, then Stockville road, and it has lovely uphills you really see how the cooling has been sorted once she’s under load. Then something strange happens, TC light, handbrake light and ABS illuminate. I brush it off due to the down pour causing a short somewhere, especially since there was no change in performance. Get to checkers for a bottle of red, turn off, return... No crank.

All the right lights, no more false TC, or handbrake light, but no crank. Check relays again, hold each in my hand, feeling for a click as I tried to turn. Each relay related to the starter, did something. So I gather a few good samaritans, push start, Ay for away, back home.

After educating myself for the past 30minutes, everything seems to point to starter motor, and or earth straps. Could it be that the battery might be to blame. The vehicle looks like it was previously setup with a dual battery system, all the right connections in the battery box, and Harrison plugs at the back too.

I would be out there now, checking and doing, but the current weather situation would see me a drowned rat.

Has any member experienced intermittent starting issues like this. The thing that baffles me is the amount of time it was being tested at the dealer for it only to appear for me... I would prefer to sort this myself, unless I need to replace starter motor, as I lose hair thinking about sending it back to the dealer for anymore time diagnosing...

I must add the underbelly seems to have been sprayed or treated... my thoughts are that could be in the way of the earths.

shout out to Albert Lammers for all the advice he gave me when everything first started going pear shaped.

[C Africa]

Had a similar problem with a 2007 2.4 Puma.

I immediately suspected the immobilizer though, and after a few more of these, I had the immobilizer removed.

Never had a problem again!


C

Edit: While having the problem, sometimes it would fix itself if you just lock and unlock the vehicle a couple of times with the remote.

[swazi85]

Also suspect the immobilizer.

I had a similar issue on my puma and was the ignition barrel coil.

[scottdurban]

Thanks guys!

Do you reckon it could still be immobilizer even though I can push start? Seems like a security flaw if the passive immobilizer can be bypassed with a push start.... haha

[Max Lange]

I had a similar issue on my 2010 2.4, took the starter out serviced it and replaced the brushes, no more issues. Bought the brushes from Diesel Electric, 2 years ago for R110...

Easy job, just getting the starter out is a bitch.

[scottdurban]

Just to add, a opened the fob, removed battery, put it straight back in, went to start and it fired straight up....

[swazi85]

Could be flat batteries on your remote then

[scottdurban]

Could be flat batteries on your remote then

Would make sense, as I sometimes have to be quite near the car for the car to unlock... I’ve only had it a for a cloud days so anything is possiblep

[jelo]

If it happens again, start with a proper step by step analysis.

- battery condition (tested with a proper volt meter and load tester)
- the dodgy second battery fitment
- earth straps (will show up as voltage loss at the starter and solenoid)
- relay condition
etc

If your electrics are good, then look at the immobiliser.

[scottdurban]

If it happens again, start with a proper step by step analysis.

- battery condition (tested with a proper volt meter and load tester)
- the dodgy second battery fitment
- earth straps (will show up as voltage loss at the starter and solenoid)
- relay condition
etc

If your electrics are good, then look at the immobiliser.

Thanks Jakes!

I checked the battery now. 13.1V when on, 12.76V when off - I'm not sure what the reading for on should be...

Will double check the second battery terminals were deleted correctly.

Will also check the earth straps as soon as I have a gap, looking after the twins today...

When you say relay condition, would that be corrosion?

[scottdurban]

Thanks Jakes!

I checked the battery now. 13.1V when on, 12.76V when off - I'm not sure what the reading for on should be...

Will double check the second battery terminals were deleted correctly.

Will also check the earth straps as soon as I have a gap, looking after the twins today...

When you say relay condition, would that be corrosion?

I did a little test regarding the remote. Unlocked, the vehicle, took the battery out of the remote, then started her up. I perhaps don't know how the passive immobiliser works though...
Later, I put it back in, went to out the windows up, immobiliser was active, and the remote struggled to disable the immobiliser. So I'll still change the remote battery once I have the chance. Relatively small/cheap fix...

[scottdurban]

Okay so I've schooled myself a bit here.

I thought the reading when she was running was low (13.1) - my memory told be to expect around 14.4V

And after browsing through a few posts, its seems like that is pretty low. Should be, at the lowest, 13.8, but mid 14's is where it should be at.

Kind've starts to make sense that it's not functioning correctly...

[ghouwens]

I would check the voltage reading on the starter itself when it doesn't want to crank over.

Test it on both the end of the cable, as well as the starter terminal. If there is power on the cable but not the terminal, it points to a loose/bad connection. If there is power on the terminal, that would point to a bad starter.

If you have no power whatsoever on the starter, then trace back from there to the output side of the relays, and then further back from there until you do find power.

[scottdurban]

Sort of an update. Haven't been able to test more, but I noticed a wet spot under her a little earlier. Went to investigate. It seems as though she has started to lose coolant again. Looks like it is coming from the new pipe that comes from the (new) water pump, to the intake side. It's the only coolant pipe I could note directly above the starter motor, and this was where I traced it from underneath. To top it off, when looking around, I noticed the intercooler to intake pipe as a split...

Is a split intake pipe a "stop-dont-drive-it-or-you'll-break-it" situation? Or can I use it gingerly until it gets to the dealer?

[jelo]

Is a split intake pipe a "stop-dont-drive-it-or-you'll-break-it" situation? Or can I use it gingerly until it gets to the dealer?

Wind a couple of meters of black duct tape around it. Should last several months.

[scottdurban]

Wind a couple of meters of black duct tape around it. Should last several months.

Thanks! I'll strap it up tonight.

[scottdurban]

Thanks! I'll strap it up tonight.

Worked well, except it highlighted the fact that there was a smaller hole on the back side, so on my test drive, she squealed like a pig when the boost picked up.

But the thing I liked the most however, was how much better she pulled!

[scottdurban]

Update

Redid the boost pipe temp patch with silicone tape and gorilla tape, with a hose clamp holding down over the spilt, no more comical whistling noise, better power delivery. So will suffice until she goes to dealer tomorrow.

Replaced the remote battery, went to start her up... Hard/almost flat battery crank, then an alarm I haven’t heard before started going off. Turned off, pressed immobilser again, then she cranked 3 times, a lot less laboured than the first attempt, and she fired. Took her for a 2 minute drive, stopped. Waited a couple of minutes, unlocked, turned over, no issue, back home...

I must add that we’ve had really wet weather here lately, and I don’t have a garage anymore, so I suspect bad earth straps... But I tend to agree the immobilizer is getting in the way. Will get the dealer to report back with codes, and take it from there, will try find someone with a Hawkeye or the likes that can look at disabling the immobilizer.

edit!

Stupidly I did not consider the battery could just be on its way out, as experienced by these gents... https://www.defender2.net/forum/topi...?view=previous

[ClaudeG]

I also think its your cranking battery. That alarm sounds when the battery is very flat and you try start it. Its a secondary alarm that sounds even without the battery connected.

[scottdurban]

Update.

I feel like the dealer is pulling a fast one...
But like, not even trying to hide it.
Repair bill of 20k to change the boost pipes, 2 water hoses, heater control valve, coolant, battery cover (which they lost), and battery...

So in terms of the original post. They conclude the starting problem is down the the cranking battery. However they want to replace it with a LR battery, at 5.5k ex VAT! It’s only 85ah... you can pick up an exide 16v 100ah for 2.5k, and that’s from takealot!!

I would be doing this all myself, had the I not just acquired the vehicle(so it should all be at the original dealers cost, as has been the whole experience).

something that might be of use to other Defender Puma owners is a far cheaper heater control valve. Courtesy of the guys on defender2.net

Turns out the heater control valve is the same from certain Citroen’s and Peugeot’s. Searching the following on Google will show something around R400 bucks versus R2.5k
https://www.defender2.net/forum/topic54969-30.html

Peugeot - Citroen part nr.6448P6
Fiat part nr. 77363342

You can find them as cheap as 25 eur (depending which manufacturer). Land Rover "Original part " is made in Italy by Denso

here is what I found https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/77363342