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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvia000 View Post
    I m from the Netherlands and hope you all are ok.
    Everything is closed here till the 18th of januari
    All shops ( only essential) no entertainment, no bars, restaurants etc
    All schools are closed
    We can only see 2 people a day at home
    Hospitals are code red allmost black ( I think in 3 days we have code black )
    We have 2 new mutations ( VK, and South african ) and here they are most scared for the south african mutation because younger people and children are getting more sick

    How do you all think about this new mutation? If I read this thread I think all buisness are still open? Schools still open?

    Stay well and healthy

    I hope that some people here at home that complain the most about lockdown read your post. Compared to what you describe, our present lockdown is a walk in the park; the main points being the wearing of masks, maintaining physical distancing, and the ban on alcohol sales and consumption in public places. These are currently in place until 15 Jan. Our schools normally go back around that time, and I guess a call will be made then about whether or not to open them, and whether to extend the current restrictions or not. It depends what our numbers do.

    Apart from that, it's almost "business as usual". Our lockdown level 5 was similar to what you describe is currently happening in the Netherlands, but that was around April/May time. It's been such a topsy-turvy year I can't remember the exact dates; maybe one of the other forum members will kindly enlighten you.

    There has been much (often lively) discussion on this forum and elsewhere about mutated version of the virus, and whether (or how much) worse it is than the original. I think the general consensus is that viruses DO mutate, and much has been said or speculated about what that might do to the efficacy of the vaccines being developed. It would appear that the new strain is less "inclined" to only badly affect the older people and those with medical conditions; it seems to affect the young and healthy just as badly. That is of course cause for worry.

    Many of our hospitals are overcrowded, and our healthcare workers are taking a huge amount of strain. It doesn't help that our health system is NOT one of the best, especially in the public sector. But even private healthcare is struggling, with all non-essential surgical procedures being put on hold.

    Thank you for your good wishes - take care as well.
    Rob Kirk

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by C Africa View Post
    The regulations for determining how many people you are allowed in your shop works out to 8m2 per person. I.e. take your useable floor space (subtract space taken up by shelves, fridges etc), divide the sq meters by 8, deduct the number of staff, and you have your shop's limit.


    C

    Thanks, C. Based on earlier discussion this seems excessive in the other direction. Do you have a reference for this?

    Thanks
    Rob Kirk

    Amarok V6.
    Sym 200 scooter 2 x 1, CVT transmission, 4V OHC, 11.4 kW, 15NM
    0-60km/h in about 10s (downhill), Top speed - 100km/h (on a steeper downhill)
    Ground clearance : 125mm on 16-inch rims
    Tare : 134kg, GVM : 250kg (approx), GCM : 250kg (approx), Towing capacity : 0kg
    Best of all : 4L/100km, town driving and pinning it...

  4. #23
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by sylvia000 View Post
    I m from the Netherlands and hope you all are ok.
    Everything is closed here till the 18th of januari
    All shops ( only essential) no entertainment, no bars, restaurants etc
    All schools are closed
    We can only see 2 people a day at home
    Hospitals are code red allmost black ( I think in 3 days we have code black )
    We have 2 new mutations ( VK, and South african ) and here they are most scared for the south african mutation because younger people and children are getting more sick

    How do you all think about this new mutation? If I read this thread I think all buisness are still open? Schools still open?

    Stay well and healthy
    My cousin works in a hospital in the estern cape (oudshoorn) and she says its getting really really bad.
    Its holiday season now so many businesses and all schools etc are closed..This would have been the right time to actually do a hard lockdown but too many people are away from home for holidays.
    I think our government made good calls except for a few exceptions like banning smokes and now beaches..Pointless to close beaches but you leave rerstaurants and malls open.
    The problem is the people and enforcement of the rules..
    people do things cause they get away with it here and everyone has their opinion of how it should be done and screw the government for taking away their freedom..

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  6. #24
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Ama-newbie View Post
    Thanks, C. Based on earlier discussion this seems excessive in the other direction. Do you have a reference for this?

    Thanks
    This is the standard that has been distributed among retailers. They all comply with this. I don't have the actual regulation number.


    C
    If you ain't livin on the edge, you're taking up too much space!

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  8. #25
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Let me guess. Maths wasnít one of your strong points.

    Take a piece of string 1.5m long and draw a circle around you.

    Work out the area of the circle.

    EDIT - I am lying in bed trying to get to sleep and - bang - it hits me. Itís not 7m2 per person. If each person had 7m2 then there would be a 3m space between them. So what is it then?

    0.75 x 0.75 x 3.14 = 1.76m2 which gives a gap of 0.75 + 0.75 = 1.5m between people. So if you stand in the middle of a 1.76m2 circle the everybody has a 1.5m barrier.

    But wait there is more. You canít just divide the area by 1.76 to get number of people because all the circles donít fit next to each other without wasted space between them. So what is it then ?

    You have to have squares. So itís 1.5 x 1.5 = 2.25m2

    But that gives you the maximum, when the joint is packed to the limit and nobody is allowed to move one inch unless everybody else also moves one inch in the same direction. Hence, to come to a practical limit which still allows movement, they seem to have settled on 8m2 per person.


    C
    If you ain't livin on the edge, you're taking up too much space!

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  10. #26
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Wat as mens nou op jou vakansie wyn op wynplase gekoop het en al mens se orige bier ens. Moet ek dit nou by my kampplek los

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  12. #27
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by C Africa View Post
    But that gives you the maximum, when the joint is packed to the limit and nobody is allowed to move one inch unless everybody else also moves one inch in the same direction. Hence, to come to a practical limit which still allows movement, they seem to have settled on 8m2 per person.


    C
    Of course you are 100% correct, trying to deliberately pack as many people as possible (even with the required distancing) into his reception would be just plain madness and irresponsible. I think Fluffy and I tracked off on a "hypothetical tangent"...

    Amusing that your quoted figure of 1 person per 8sqm is fairly close to my "flawed logic" value of edit: 1 per 7 sqm. So I think we'll go with 8 as a reasonable value. His reception area is roughly 100sqm (with wide stacking doors leading out onto a wide outside verandah), so I will advise him that he should never have more than 12 people (including staff) in the reception at any one time. Total floor area is around 300 sqm, so he should be good on all counts.

    Thanks to all contributors to this discussion. I think it's time to close it off, unless someone finds that elusive "legislation" or gazette entry, in which case please post a link or a photo.
    Last edited by Ama-newbie; 2020/12/30 at 09:54 AM.
    Rob Kirk

    Amarok V6.
    Sym 200 scooter 2 x 1, CVT transmission, 4V OHC, 11.4 kW, 15NM
    0-60km/h in about 10s (downhill), Top speed - 100km/h (on a steeper downhill)
    Ground clearance : 125mm on 16-inch rims
    Tare : 134kg, GVM : 250kg (approx), GCM : 250kg (approx), Towing capacity : 0kg
    Best of all : 4L/100km, town driving and pinning it...

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  14. #28
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by C Africa View Post
    But that gives you the maximum, when the joint is packed to the limit and nobody is allowed to move one inch unless everybody else also moves one inch in the same direction. Hence, to come to a practical limit which still allows movement, they seem to have settled on 8m2 per person.


    C
    I’m not suggesting that is a realistic number, legal or otherwise. Just pointed out the error in the original logic.

    To me in reality it is way more complex. I have had some experience with traffic modeling where the aim is to minimize traffic density and maximize throughput.

    Suffice to say, limiting numbers to reduce congestion at the points of congestion (tills/lifts, bread/deli/meat/fish/reception counters) is key.
    Last edited by Fluffy; 2020/12/30 at 09:51 AM.
    Cheers

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  16. #29
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Iím not suggesting that is a realistic number, legal or otherwise. Just pointed out the error in the original logic.

    To me in reality it is way more complex. I have had some experience with traffic modeling where the aim is to minimize traffic density and maximize throughput.

    Suffice to say, limiting numbers to reduce congestion at the points of congestion (tills/lifts, bread/deli/meat/fish/reception counters) is key.
    Absolutely, so what we did at our retail outlet. Determined the number allowed. Then removed all the trolleys except the ones that matched this number. Now it is simple, no entry without a trolley. This controls the numbers, and the physical presence of the trolley helps to maintain distance between people. Works like a charm!


    C
    If you ain't livin on the edge, you're taking up too much space!

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  18. #30
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by CornelisVoigt View Post
    Wat as mens nou op jou vakansie wyn op wynplase gekoop het en al mens se orige bier ens. Moet ek dit nou by my kampplek los
    begin suip?
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  20. #31
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by C Africa View Post
    Absolutely, so what we did at our retail outlet. Determined the number allowed. Then removed all the trolleys except the ones that matched this number. Now it is simple, no entry without a trolley. This controls the numbers, and the physical presence of the trolley helps to maintain distance between people. Works like a charm!


    C
    Step back and look at the inanity of this discussion. Unfreaking believable. 2020:The Year We Lost Our Common Sense, Courage and Civil Liberties

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  22. #32
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Back to topic it looks like the fine for travelling with liquor is R2500, if caught.

    Admission of Guilt Fines - Adjusted Alert Level 3.pdf
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  23. #33
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    ... maybe all entering should wear
    wide brimmed Mexican sombreros ...
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  24. #34
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post
    My cousin works in a hospital in the estern cape (oudshoorn) and she says its getting really really bad.
    Just a small correction. Oudtshoorn is solid in the Western Cape. Eastern Cape only starts Ī150km to the East.
    Cobus
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  26. #35
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.G View Post
    My cousin works in a hospital in the estern cape (oudshoorn) and she says its getting really really bad.
    Its holiday season now so many businesses and all schools etc are closed..This would have been the right time to actually do a hard lockdown but too many people are away from home for holidays.
    I think our government made good calls except for a few exceptions like banning smokes and now beaches..Pointless to close beaches but you leave rerstaurants and malls open.
    The problem is the people and enforcement of the rules..
    people do things cause they get away with it here and everyone has their opinion of how it should be done and screw the government for taking away their freedom..
    All the patients from Humansdorp, Hankey, Patensie, Oudtshoorn, Beaufort West, Riversdale, Heidelberg are all sent to George hospital.
    Pieter Kemp.
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  27. #36
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by Pieterk View Post
    All the patients from Humansdorp, Hankey, Patensie, Oudtshoorn, Beaufort West, Riversdale, Heidelberg are all sent to George hospital.
    I wonder where they pack them there? My nephew and wife are both doctors there and reported last week that they are basically full up
    Mike Lauterbach

  28. #37
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Haha.
    Is darem tuis sonder enige probleme
    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    begin suip?

  29. #38
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeml View Post
    I wonder where they pack them there? My nephew and wife are both doctors there and reported last week that they are basically full up
    My wife is a professional at one of them. They now have 3 covid wards opened, and looking at another. All selective procedures stopped. Mostly personnel who have had covid, is used in these wards. The rate has already started dropping and will do so for a few months, until the next one hits us.
    The reality of covid? Its not going to go away! No matter what precautions are taken.
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  31. #39
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by CornelisVoigt View Post
    Haha.
    Is darem tuis sonder enige probleme
    ja ek dink nie die po-po's sal kyk na n ou met so paar kaste wyn in sy sleepwa op pad huistoe van vakansie af nie, hulle sal soek vir daai shebeen ouens met n bakkie vol

    maar mens is nooit seker nie, ne?
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  32. #40
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    Default Re: Lockdown regulations and traveling with alcohol

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    ja ek dink nie die po-po's sal kyk na n ou met so paar kaste wyn in sy sleepwa op pad huistoe van vakansie af nie, hulle sal soek vir daai shebeen ouens met n bakkie vol

    maar mens is nooit seker nie, ne?
    Onthou, die ou oppad huistoe van vakansie met sy paar kiste wyn is WIT, en n goeie teiken vir Cele se boys.
    Die shebeen ou is seker onder die "protection" van dieselfde Spietkop, in elkgeval, en dus, vry om te ry.
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