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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone101 View Post
    I can definitely compare the two, if one fails sooner than the other, that is exactly what a comparison is for, to highlight differences.
    Loading 500kg on both and going for a drive is within specification and would be interesting, for me at least.

    I bought a 1HZ Cruiser because I didn't want electronics. As good as I am at pixie-wrangling, I prefer a more simple approach to this car. I wanted to, and have with great success so far, improve the suspension as much as possible.

    I understand that most people just want to buy something off the showroom floor and drive it, but I am not one of those people. My ideal car doesn't exist on a showroom floor.

    For me, the process of getting there is just as fun as the end result. I just hope that some people find it as interesting as I do, that is why I share my experiences.
    Mine is also a 1Hz and I am as happy as can be. Slow but reliable with the only engine available north of SA, Namibia and Botswana. No petrol or V8's in Zambia, Mozambique and higher up so for us
    who wanted an overland car it is perfect. For towing the caravan to the South Coast and back it however is not but at least it gets you home with some patience.

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  3. #62
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    I think the 70 series front suspension travel is limited, by its design, no matter what coils and shocks you put in.
    It will never have the flex of say a Patrol SFA or a Jeep

    That control arm design and the positioning of the sway bar, makes it near impossible to flex lekker.
    To achieve comparable flex you will need to change the suspension dramatically.
    At least if flex much better than SFA and completely enough for overlanding. Take off the stabiliser bar and fit long enough shocks and I am sure it will flex more but the way mine does is fine.

    Watch video down Van Zyl's pass, watch after 2m40: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlhILjb6U60
    Last edited by PierredW; 2020/12/18 at 12:06 PM.

  4. #63
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    I think the 70 series front suspension travel is limited, by its design, no matter what coils and shocks you put in.
    It will never have the flex of say a Patrol SFA or a Jeep

    That control arm design and the positioning of the sway bar, makes it near impossible to flex lekker.
    To achieve comparable flex you will need to change the suspension dramatically.
    The Patrol and 70 Series Cruiser have almost identical designed front suspension setups. Once you remove sway bars and coil clamps you have almost unlimited flex. This is what have been done in those flex posing pictures. Nice for trails but I do not want to be in a 4x4 with coil clamps and sway bars removed if you need to do quick maneuvers at speed

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  6. #64
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    Lightbulb Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    Right, so here is my opinion:

    Throwing R80k out for better adjustable shocks while using a standard set of springs is not going to get you the full experience you seem to require or claim you have experienced.

    As you said yourself:

    "If your springs are matched to your load then your suspension will move."
    Thank you, this is a much more constructive way to discuss topics as opposed to trying to read between the lines of your previous post.

    Let's break your post down a bit.

    What exactly does the aftermarket springs change?
    Springs have one major characteristic, and that is spring rate, measured in N/mm.
    The thicker leaf packs from OME has more inter-leaf friction because it hasore elements than the original leafs on my Cruiser, it is much stiffer overall and is also very progressive, so that it gets very stiff the more it moves. This greatly reduces flex and comfort over bigger uneven terrain, but also increases the load capability.

    I don't carry heavy loads constantly, and as such the OME springs would make the ride more stiff and cause it to have less articulation.

    Please explain to me why my car would be improved by the OME springs or give me the "full experience" as you claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    As far as I am aware, your 79 was built to carry a load, hence the springs are rated for that load?
    How do shocks (apart from the issue about extended and compressed length) help the spring rate and improve articulation?
    How did you do that without a set of variable rate springs?

    Claiming that your very expensive shocks alone have helped your articulation sounds like confirmation bias.
    Why exclude the shock lengths? This is why I think it articulates better.
    Unfortunately I never measured the standard car, but there is an uneven ledge at work that I used to have to engage 4x4 to drive through because the wheel picked up, now I can do it without.
    Not very scientific, but that is what I have as a control.
    How much more, I don't know.

    If someone has a stock Cruiser, bring it to me and we can measure it on the forklift.

    Of course I am biased, everyone is. I try not to be but I'm not oblivious to the fact that I could be.
    I attempt to measure things to keep it objective, or to let multiple people drive the car over the same roads.

    You are even welcome to come drive my car and share your own opinions if you want to expose my bias. I wouldn't be offended if you disagree with me.
    Last edited by Cyclone101; 2020/12/18 at 03:52 PM.

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  8. #65
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    "The thicker leaf packs from OME has more inter-leaf friction because it hasore elements than the original leafs on my Cruiser, it is much stiffer overall and is also very progressive, so that it gets very stiff the more it moves. This greatly reduces flex and comfort over bigger uneven terrain, but also increases the load capability."

    OME can also provide softer springs. And that is also my point: buy the spring rate based on your load profile OR your comfort profile, you can't have both if they are on the opposite sides of extreme: extreme comfort versus extreme load capability.
    Jakes Louw
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  9. #66
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    The Patrol and 70 Series Cruiser have almost identical designed front suspension setups. Once you remove sway bars and coil clamps you have almost unlimited flex. This is what have been done in those flex posing pictures. Nice for trails but I do not want to be in a 4x4 with coil clamps and sway bars removed if you need to do quick maneuvers at speed
    And the Old Defender and Discovery 1. Wranglers have sway bar disconnects, it isn't rocket science to have those fitted.

    The old long radius arm system is not as good as a long arm 4-link, but I'd say it will kick a short 3- or 4-link system's bum very easily if one uses the Land Rover round rubber chassis bush mount system. The LC70/LC80/LC105 system has a significant problem due to the design of the chassis mount and hence the chassis bush.

    I think you need to agree on that at least.
    Jakes Louw
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  10. #67
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    I am not that concerned about flex anymore. Think double lockers is worth much more.

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  12. #68
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    "The thicker leaf packs from OME has more inter-leaf friction because it hasore elements than the original leafs on my Cruiser, it is much stiffer overall and is also very progressive, so that it gets very stiff the more it moves. This greatly reduces flex and comfort over bigger uneven terrain, but also increases the load capability."

    OME can also provide softer springs. And that is also my point: buy the spring rate based on your load profile OR your comfort profile, you can't have both if they are on the opposite sides of extreme: extreme comfort versus extreme load capability.
    No, you are wrong.

    They don't have front springs that are even close to the standard stiffness. And the leaf pack would have to be taken apart and elements removed to get it back to what I already have now.

    You are mistaken. I'm not looking for both extremes. I have stated countless times that I don't carry heavy loads often and I can't find springs that do what I want.

    Every aftermarket spring for the cruiser is more stiff than stock. I don't think you understand how hard I tried to find a stock stiffness spring. I even considered having some made, but the quote was a bit silly for just one set of springs.

  13. #69
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone101 View Post
    No, you are wrong.

    They don't have front springs that are even close to the standard stiffness. And the leaf pack would have to be taken apart and elements removed to get it back to what I already have now.

    You are mistaken. I'm not looking for both extremes. I have stated countless times that I don't carry heavy loads often and I can't find springs that do what I want.

    Every aftermarket spring for the cruiser is more stiff than stock. I don't think you understand how hard I tried to find a stock stiffness spring. I even considered having some made, but the quote was a bit silly for just one set of springs.
    Cyclone I would not bother if I was you.
    But please keep giving us info on the BP51 shocks.Im seriously considering buying.My OME shocks have done 85 000 km now.Lots of bad gravel roads.So its time for a upgrade.
    2015 Land Cruiser 79 D/C V8 Diesel Turbo
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  15. #70
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone101 View Post
    What exactly does the aftermarket springs change?
    Springs have one major characteristic, and that is spring rate, measured in N/mm.
    The thicker leaf packs from OME has more inter-leaf friction because it hasore elements than the original leafs on my Cruiser, it is much stiffer overall and is also very progressive, so that it gets very stiff the more it moves. This greatly reduces flex and comfort over bigger uneven terrain, but also increases the load capability.

    I don't carry heavy loads constantly, and as such the OME springs would make the ride more stiff and cause it to have less articulation.

    Please explain to me why my car would be improved by the OME springs or give me the "full experience" as you claim.
    I haven't got a 70 series Cruiser, only a 60 series. 2 years ago I think I went from original springs with OME shocks to a full OME suspension. The 60 got leaf springs on both axles.
    I had a choice of light, medium or heavy constant load. Can't remember the numbers now. I went for the light option, since there is not much constant load in my Cruiser and comfort was a priority for me. Even with the "light" option one can still load the vehicle to it's maximum GWM, obviously. It would just sag a bit more than with the other two spring options.
    Unlike the original springs, these OME ones are progressive, giving better ride comfort when empty. Therefore there should be less of a noticeable difference between loaded and empty.

    To me, the overall ride has become better. The Cruiser doesn't lean as much in turns as before and it is a much nicer ride on bad gravel roads.

    I would think that for the 70 series there would be the same choice of 3 different constant load carrying spring sets available. OME claims that their shocks are set up to match their springs, not sure how important that is in the end.
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  17. #71
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone101 View Post
    Every aftermarket spring for the cruiser is more stiff than stock. I don't think you understand how hard I tried to find a stock stiffness spring. I even considered having some made, but the quote was a bit silly for just one set of springs.
    Have you tried MikeM Suspensions? They do make springs according to what you are looking for and their prices where less than OME and Iron Man.
    2012 FJ Cruiser
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  18. #72
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    Quote Originally Posted by HugoNotte View Post
    I haven't got a 70 series Cruiser, only a 60 series. 2 years ago I think I went from original springs with OME shocks to a full OME suspension. The 60 got leaf springs on both axles.
    I had a choice of light, medium or heavy constant load. Can't remember the numbers now. I went for the light option, since there is not much constant load in my Cruiser and comfort was a priority for me. Even with the "light" option one can still load the vehicle to it's maximum GWM, obviously. It would just sag a bit more than with the other two spring options.
    Unlike the original springs, these OME ones are progressive, giving better ride comfort when empty. Therefore there should be less of a noticeable difference between loaded and empty.

    To me, the overall ride has become better. The Cruiser doesn't lean as much in turns as before and it is a much nicer ride on bad gravel roads.

    I would think that for the 70 series there would be the same choice of 3 different constant load carrying spring sets available. OME claims that their shocks are set up to match their springs, not sure how important that is in the end.
    Even the light duty option is more stiff than the sock springs. In the case of the front springs more than 50%
    The light duty coil springs measured were not progressive.
    The stock leaf springs are also progressive when it touches the load spring.

  19. #73
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    Quote Originally Posted by HugoNotte View Post
    Have you tried MikeM Suspensions? They do make springs according to what you are looking for and their prices where less than OME and Iron Man.
    Yes, I have spent many hours there trying to find a solution.

    They don't make springs, they get Supreme Springs to make it for them. They gave me a rough quote of more than R100k for one set of custom springs.

  20. #74
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone101 View Post
    Even the light duty option is more stiff than the sock springs. In the case of the front springs more than 50%
    The light duty coil springs measured were not progressive.
    The stock leaf springs are also progressive when it touches the load spring.
    That is the first time that a Toyota OEM spring is more comfortable than an aftermarket spring. Have you had the chance to drive a 70 series with OME or other springs, just to compare? Or how did you compare the stiffness of the different spring sets?
    2012 FJ Cruiser
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  22. #75
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone101 View Post
    No, you are wrong.
    Then I am sorry, I misunderstood what you are trying to achieve. Good luck.
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    Quote Originally Posted by HugoNotte View Post
    That is the first time that a Toyota OEM spring is more comfortable than an aftermarket spring. Have you had the chance to drive a 70 series with OME or other springs, just to compare? Or how did you compare the stiffness of the different spring sets?
    Have to agree, on all the vehicles I have done suspensions, from 79's, 76's, 80's, pajero's, hiluxes, landy's etc etc. The aftermarket was always an improvement in ride quality.
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  25. #77
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    Quote Originally Posted by AboutAfrica View Post
    Have to agree, on all the vehicles I have done suspensions, from 79's, 76's, 80's, pajero's, hiluxes, landy's etc etc. The aftermarket was always an improvement in ride quality.
    No no cannot be
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  26. #78
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    My 79 have an Ironman suspension fitted.
    The 79 were on the OEM soft suspension with light duty rear leafs.

    The ride has hardened a lot since fitting Ironman VS OEM.

    76 With stock suspension really is a nice drive. Have a Warn Winch that I would love to fit. Doing that will end in a suspension upgrade. Like Cyclone I am really afraid of paying big numbers for a suspension upgrade and be worst off in ride quality.

    You need to drive 70 Series Cruisers side by side to experience suspension upgrades.

    Pity there is some posts from guys firing from the hip
    Last edited by grips; 2020/12/18 at 09:49 PM.

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  28. #79
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    My 79 have an Ironman suspension fitted.
    The 79 were on the OEM soft suspension with light duty rear leafs.

    The ride has hardened a lot since fitting Ironman VS OEM.

    76 With stock suspension really is a nice drive. Have a Warn Winch that I would love to fit. Doing that will end in a suspension upgrade. Like Cyclone I am really afraid of paying big numbers for a suspension upgrade and be worst off in ride quality.

    You need to drive 70 Series Cruisers side by side to experience suspension upgrades.

    Pity there is some posts from guys firing from the hip
    Thanks Grips. As I said, it's the first time I hear this. Usually Old Man Emu is more comfortable than stock, at least when the suitable constant load rating is put in.
    I have however heard mixed opinions about EFS and Iron Man suspensions.
    Also, somewhere I have read that some polyethylene bushes make the suspension harder.
    I agree, it would be great to experience a 76 or 79 stock vs OME suspension to be able to compare.
    2012 FJ Cruiser
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  30. #80
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 79 OME BP51 Suspension Review

    Quote Originally Posted by HugoNotte View Post
    Thanks Grips. As I said, it's the first time I hear this. Usually Old Man Emu is more comfortable than stock, at least when the suitable constant load rating is put in.
    I have however heard mixed opinions about EFS and Iron Man suspensions.
    Also, somewhere I have read that some polyethylene bushes make the suspension harder.
    I agree, it would be great to experience a 76 or 79 stock vs OME suspension to be able to compare.
    Hugo I am thinking to dump the Ironman for OME on the 79. Yes I believe the inputs from you and AboutAfrica.
    I am just too scared to stuff up what I have on the 76. Unfortunately money spend on suspensions have a costly turn around.
    Last edited by grips; 2020/12/18 at 10:07 PM.

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