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  1. #341
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by Alxrow001 View Post
    LC200 4.5L V8195kw - 43kw/L
    650nm - 144nm/L

    Prado 2.8D
    150kw - 50kw/L
    500nm - 167nm/L

    Range Rover 3.0 v6
    190kw - 63kw/L
    600nm - 200nm/L

    We can go on for days. VW, FORD, NISSAN, BMW, AUDI, JEEP, MERCEDES all of these make comparable motors with higher power outputs. As much as I love Toyota's the LC200 is simply underpowered.




    Rav
    Rowan I do agree that on paper the 4.5l v8 does not look good. Not quite the same comparison as you did between the Prado and 200 V8 Cruiser.

    My son owns a manual 2.8GD6 Hilux. On paper very close to the 76 V8. In practice the V8 is far more superior in low down 4x4 crawling.
    You can just idle the v8 up almost any obstacle something you cannot do with the 2.8.

    With the auto boxes in the 200 and new 300 this might not be that obvious.

  2. #342
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    The current V8 is underpowered to maximise longevity. I would take an underpowered, reliable engine over a highly strung one if it means that components are under less stress. I really hope that the new V6 will be "underpowered" and over-engineered.. Let's not forget the sort of "reliable" power figures tuners get out of the 2jz. Toyota is known for not focusing on numbers alone.

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  4. #343
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    Is "Under-powered" really the right term for these engines which produce close to 200 kw or more?

    What is it that the vehicle can't do? Stretch the a-frame of an offroad caravan?
    There is always a way to get more power from an engine. Look at motorcycle or F1 engines. Would you want to get a new engine after every December holiday?
    2012 FJ Cruiser
    1983 FJ60 Landcruiser -sold-

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  6. #344
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    the 1HZ can be classified as "underpowered"...the 1VD not so much...
    2018 Ford Ranger 3.2 XLT DC 4x4 A/T



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  8. #345
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    By underpowered I don't mean "not enough power", I mean less than conventional output compared to similar displacements. 195kw for a twin turbo 4.5 diesel V8 is definitely underpowered. And I agree, it's enough power for all legal applications.
    Last edited by Schambies; 2021/07/16 at 10:34 AM.

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  10. #346
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by Schambies View Post
    By underpowered I don't mean "not enough power", I mean less than conventional output compared to similar displacements. 195kw for a twin turbo 4.5 diesel V8 is definitely underpowered. And I agree, it's enough power for all legal applications.
    There has always been a trade off between power output of an engine and it's longevity. Modern engineering has pushed that boundary quite a bit in the past 40 years.
    With "less than conventional output" comes more than conventional reliability in case of the Cruiser and Patrol engines.

    And I'm not arguing with or against you.
    2012 FJ Cruiser
    1983 FJ60 Landcruiser -sold-

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  12. #347
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    Haven't seen the torque curve of these now engines, but the fact that they use a 10 speed it tells me it will be sharp parabolic type of curve. Maybe not a bad thing but off road it might not be ideally?, or not better than the old engine in term of low rev torque?

    The GD 6 (not the latest one) in the Prado only had more torque in a very limited rev range over the 3lD4D. To me the older GD6 was not not an improvement over the D4D in the Prado, might the reason TSA hesitate to get it?. (The D4D in the Hilux was a lower spec than the one in the Prado. )

    The kzte was useless in a farm situation, with the mostly low speed driving.
    Johan Kriel

  13. #348
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by Schambies View Post
    The current V8 is underpowered to maximise longevity. I would take an underpowered, reliable engine over a highly strung one if it means that components are under less stress. I really hope that the new V6 will be "underpowered" and over-engineered.. Let's not forget the sort of "reliable" power figures tuners get out of the 2jz. Toyota is known for not focusing on numbers alone.
    Agreed. As a Prado D4D owner, I am very happy that my car's engine is underpowered and hopefully more reliable than a V6 TD from a Land Rover or one of the Germans. Alxrow001 still made a good point that the engine is underpowered compared with rivals and that's a fact.

    The fact that most Toyota owners appreciate that is besides the point in my opinion.

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  15. #349
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by Lou07 View Post
    Agreed. As a Prado D4D owner, I am very happy that my car's engine is underpowered and hopefully more reliable than a V6 TD from a Land Rover or one of the Germans. Alxrow001 still made a good point that the engine is underpowered compared with rivals and that's a fact.

    The fact that most Toyota owners appreciate that is besides the point in my opinion.
    Mmmmm......

    Using Alex's methodology, your D4D prado is

    120kw - 40kw/l
    44nm - 133nm/l

    Carting along a 2.5ton SUV

    My Touareg

    190kw - 63kw/l
    600nm - 200nm/l

    also carting along a 2.5ton SUV

    So compared to the Touareg, the D4D is underpowered yes, a V6 vs a 4pot. Which engine will work the hardest

    Bit TIC but still interesting!!
    Gert Grobler

    VW Touareg V6 Tdi Escape; Land Cruiser 105
    Bush Lapa Boskriek 816

  16. #350
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by Nys View Post
    So compared to the Touareg, the D4D is underpowered yes, a V6 vs a 4pot. Which engine will work the hardest
    The Touareg. The D4D will feel very little strain in the engine.
    Johan Kriel

  17. #351
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by Nys View Post
    Mmmmm......

    Using Alex's methodology, your D4D prado is

    120kw - 40kw/l
    44nm - 133nm/l

    Carting along a 2.5ton SUV

    My Touareg

    190kw - 63kw/l
    600nm - 200nm/l

    also carting along a 2.5ton SUV

    So compared to the Touareg, the D4D is underpowered yes, a V6 vs a 4pot. Which engine will work the hardest

    Bit TIC but still interesting!!
    Jip, very true. That's why I buy 7 year old cars - someone else pays the school fees if there are issues


    In all seriousness, I drove a Land Rover for 3 years and it's time for some boring Toyota reliability for a while... The wife has a German diesel which I am more than happy to use if I need to hit the road and get somewhere QUICKLY

  18. #352
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by JLK View Post
    Haven't seen the torque curve of these now engines, but the fact that they use a 10 speed it tells me it will be sharp parabolic type of curve. Maybe not a bad thing but off road it might not be ideally?, or not better than the old engine in term of low rev torque?

    The GD 6 (not the latest one) in the Prado only had more torque in a very limited rev range over the 3lD4D. To me the older GD6 was not not an improvement over the D4D in the Prado, might the reason TSA hesitate to get it?. (The D4D in the Hilux was a lower spec than the one in the Prado. )

    The kzte was useless in a farm situation, with the mostly low speed driving.
    Here are the Torque curves of both engines compared to the old V8's.
    I think at Toyota you don't call the engines underpowered we rather call them understressed!
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Jörg Reddig

    1995 Discovery V8 ( Thor intake system , controlled by Spitronics Mercury 2)
    Land Rover 3.9 V8 " Defender 90 " Under Construction
    2021 Hilux Legend D/CAB ( Company Vehicle)

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  20. #353
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by Nys View Post
    Mmmmm......

    Using Alex's methodology, your D4D prado is

    120kw - 40kw/l
    44nm - 133nm/l

    Carting along a 2.5ton SUV

    My Touareg

    190kw - 63kw/l
    600nm - 200nm/l

    also carting along a 2.5ton SUV

    So compared to the Touareg, the D4D is underpowered yes, a V6 vs a 4pot. Which engine will work the hardest

    Bit TIC but still interesting!!
    Definitely the D4D. I have a 3.0 and I don't believe the kW and nm figures toyota claims. I find it quite gutless compared to the officially "less powerful" 2.2 mhawk I had previously. Maybe it's the gearing and turbo lag...

  21. #354
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by JWR View Post
    Here are the Torque curves of both engines compared to the old V8's.
    Thanks . Looks like the 5.7 petrol should be better at idle speed.
    Johan Kriel

  22. #355
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by Schambies View Post
    Definitely the D4D. I have a 3.0 and I don't believe the kW and nm figures toyota claims. I find it quite gutless compared to the officially "less powerful" 2.2 mhawk I had previously. Maybe it's the gearing and turbo lag...
    Could it be the VNT mechanism or motor on the turbo?
    Those things might get sticky and the VNT system won't work as intended anymore. A good clean might improve it.
    2012 FJ Cruiser
    1983 FJ60 Landcruiser -sold-

  23. #356
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by HugoNotte View Post
    Could it be the VNT mechanism or motor on the turbo?
    Those things might get sticky and the VNT system won't work as intended anymore. A good clean might improve it.
    Might be - but it only feels a little pap in 1st and 2nd and at 190k km it's a little strange that the VNT would give issues? Not too concerned though, maybe I am just being too picky. Also although the torque doesn't throw you back in the seat like the mhawk it picks up speed much faster, so it could be the gear ratios

  24. #357
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    Remember, that in the old days(older tech), it was a given that cars with bigger, slower revving engines last longer…, advances in technology mustn't be left out though.
    Im a reloader and I see a lot of similarity between engine combustion and that of firearms(firearms being much much higher though.)
    With advances in slower burning powders and longer barrels its possible to push bullets at lower pressure with much higher velocity…… with barrels lasting longer.
    With modern multiple injection systems in engines is possible to lengthen the combustion process giving a much longer bang at lower pressure on the piston. Leading to much higher power while still giving the same power and reliabilty.
    A downside of big engines is always higher fuel consumption, thats always a given.

    Engines have always become more reliable with time. My experience is that it is not engines acting up nowadays, its the bodys and chassis not able to handle the bad roads.
    Last edited by Mapog; 2021/07/16 at 10:28 PM.

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  26. #358
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by Mapog View Post
    Engines have always become more reliable with time. My experience is that it is not engines acting up nowadays, its the bodys and chassis not able to handle the bad roads.
    True. Plus the other complex driver aiding electronics and tech added to the vehicles.

  27. #359
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel


  28. #360
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    Default Re: Land Cruiser 300 - 3.3L V6 diesel

    Not strange at all. It is a well known fact that terrorist/ISIS received brand new Cruisers bought directly from dealers in the Middle East. Toyota has been trying to stop it for years.
    Quote Originally Posted by byaru1 View Post
    ....

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