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  1. #1
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    Default YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    Trying to assist my BIL. The "professionals" that installed the system really were beyond poor.

    The system works but for one thing. The generator starter motor cranks the generator to a start but then the starter motor does not disengage and switch off.

    Anyone with a wiring diagram, my translated one is a little confusing.

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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    Are you sure it's a wiring issue? Not perhaps the starter itself?
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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    The manual start works.

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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Leigh View Post
    Trying to assist my BIL. The "professionals" that installed the system really were beyond poor.

    The system works but for one thing. The generator starter motor cranks the generator to a start but then the starter motor does not disengage and switch off.

    Anyone with a wiring diagram, my translated one is a little confusing.
    You need to incorporate a timer into the contact coil or run a live to press button and live to stop. To start generator, press button till it kicks in, to stop, press stop button.
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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    Quote Originally Posted by hunter26 View Post
    You need to incorporate a timer into the contact coil or run a live to press button and live to stop. To start generator, press button till it kicks in, to stop, press stop button.
    Ok been sussing this thing out.

    1. When power is applied to the Automatic Crossover Switch, and the Genny is off (no power failure). Is the contactor of the Automatic Crossover Switch NO or NC? NO makes sense for me.
    2. How does the power hold for long enough for the starter to kick in, are there a bunch of capacitors that deliver power for a brief period of time?
    3. What is the startup sequence generally? Power Drops, Contactor remains NO, Genny starts, Timer waits a couple of seconds, contactor pulls in and power is resumed?

    One would have thought that on an Automatic Crossover Switch their would be internal relays to control the start and the killing of the starter motor. In this sequence the starter need to get a signal to start, once started it then needs a signal to stop cranking, then when power is resumes then the Genny need to get a signal to the cut switch.

    I think that the generator should be connected across 301 and 306 from the below. This connection goes to a special plug on the Genny, there are three wires and three pins.

    Name:  Automatic Switch Wiring.JPG
Views: 252
Size:  73.6 KB

    The Generator is a JDP6000-LDENS Air cooled Diesel Generator.

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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Leigh View Post
    Ok been sussing this thing out.

    1. When power is applied to the Automatic Crossover Switch, and the Genny is off (no power failure). Is the contactor of the Automatic Crossover Switch NO or NC? NO makes sense for me.
    2. How does the power hold for long enough for the starter to kick in, are there a bunch of capacitors that deliver power for a brief period of time?
    3. What is the startup sequence generally? Power Drops, Contactor remains NO, Genny starts, Timer waits a couple of seconds, contactor pulls in and power is resumed?

    One would have thought that on an Automatic Crossover Switch their would be internal relays to control the start and the killing of the starter motor. In this sequence the starter need to get a signal to start, once started it then needs a signal to stop cranking, then when power is resumes then the Genny need to get a signal to the cut switch.

    I think that the generator should be connected across 301 and 306 from the below. This connection goes to a special plug on the Genny, there are three wires and three pins.

    Name:  Automatic Switch Wiring.JPG
Views: 252
Size:  73.6 KB

    The Generator is a JDP6000-LDENS Air cooled Diesel Generator.
    As per the drawing of the switch I don't see a mains monitor or remote start signal output. Is there another controller or sorts next to the ATS switch?

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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiler Keiler View Post
    As per the drawing of the switch I don't see a mains monitor or remote start signal output. Is there another controller or sorts next to the ATS switch?
    No unfortunately not, what you see is what was installed. What do I need to get and how is that wired into the Genny?

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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Leigh View Post
    No unfortunately not, what you see is what was installed. What do I need to get and how is that wired into the Genny?
    Two options

    1 ATS Controller at ATS switch and engine controller at generator.

    2. AMF controller that controls the ATS switch and the generator.

    How far is the ATS switch from the generator?

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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    Quote Originally Posted by Geiler Keiler View Post
    Two options

    1 ATS Controller at ATS switch and engine controller at generator.

    2. AMF controller that controls the ATS switch and the generator.

    How far is the ATS switch from the generator?
    The ATS Switch is around 2.5m cable run to the Genny.
    Last edited by Andrew Leigh; 2021/04/18 at 09:38 AM.

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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    Have a look at the 12v outputs of the generator for a positive when it starts.

    If there is a suitable 12v available - you get a positive as soon as it starts, you can fit a change over relay. The positive must be enabled so the starter does not run on, or cuts the starter off too soon.

    You could also try a positive to an additional oil pressure switch but the timing must be accurate to avoid the above.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.

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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    Another point if the positive to the relay coil goes to 12V and engine is still crancking the relay might be replaced with a timer that can be set to a few seconds. Trail and error to find the actual setting. With this then the killing of the genny must be worked in when grid is on.

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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    Thanks for bearing with me on this.

    Okay I get the solenoid setup, I think.

    Relay is connected with the NC contacts in series with the Starter, which is permanently connected to the ATS, the relay is unenergized. When ATC activates starter kicks in, when voltage lifts sufficiently the relay is activated taking the starter motor out if circuit. Great I can get this sorted. A couple of questions though.

    The output from the ATS, when I find it will be is 12V +?
    We will not need a timer?

    So we can easily switch off the starter motor now thanks.

    How do we get the Genny to stop. Is it simply a matter of another relay wired in the reverse to ground out the ignition coil?

    I did notice this a.m., from a picture sent to me that there is an ATS output port on the Genny with a 6 pin connector and a 3 pin port that appears to have been added later. The three pin port is the one that was used to go to the ATS. So it would appear is if somebody has already found the relative connections already.

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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    Quote Originally Posted by ekkekan View Post
    Another point if the positive to the relay coil goes to 12V and engine is still crancking the relay might be replaced with a timer that can be set to a few seconds. Trail and error to find the actual setting. With this then the killing of the genny must be worked in when grid is on.
    I would prefer to avoid trial an error. It is a 70km drive to test or replace part every time. So the relay is probably R 30 and the timer probably R 300.

    What about a capacitor across the relay coil to give a couple of seconds more?
    Last edited by Andrew Leigh; 2021/04/18 at 11:26 AM.

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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    Simplest is what hunter said. Might save problems where the gen set is cold or hot regarding different starting times.

    To switch off, you could use a 4 pin relay connected to the diesel pump solenoid if fitted. How do you switch it off on manual start.

    Don't forget insulated lugs, wire, insulation tape, cable ties, crimper etc......

    Have a look at the gen set battery charger side for another possible 12v supply or check the output from the alternator if fitted.
    Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.

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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    [QUOTE=Andrew Leigh;4623344]The ATS Switch is around 2.5m cable run to the Genny.[/QUOTE

    If its that close I would go for a AMF setup.

    With a AMF controller you have protections like:

    Mains over / under voltage
    Mains high / low frequency
    Mains phase sensing / rotation
    Gen over / under volt
    Gen over / under frequency
    Gen over load protection
    Gen oil pressure
    Battery charger / DC alternator voltage

    You will be able to read:

    Mains Voltage
    Mains Frequency
    Gen Voltage
    Gen Frequency
    Gen current
    Gen DC Voltage
    Run Hours

    Then there are load of programmable timers:

    Main abnormal delay
    Mains normal delay
    Start delay
    Gen safety delay
    Gen stop delay

    And some AMF controllers have built in battery changers.

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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Leigh View Post
    I would prefer to avoid trial an error. It is a 70km drive to test or replace part every time. So the relay is probably R 30 and the timer probably R 300.

    What about a capacitor across the relay coil to give a couple of seconds more?
    The trail and error was when installed to test with cold and hot engine.
    Capacitor won't work when you energise the coil. The relay will still pick up as soon as energised. If it was time delay to drop off it would work.

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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    Quote Originally Posted by ekkekan View Post
    The trail and error was when installed to test with cold and hot engine.
    Capacitor won't work when you energise the coil. The relay will still pick up as soon as energised. If it was time delay to drop off it would work.
    The capacitor was meant to to keep the relay in for that little bit longer to avoid the timer. If the voltage picks up too quickly the generator may not be fully started and may cut out again?

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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Leigh View Post
    The capacitor was meant to to keep the relay in for that little bit longer to avoid the timer. If the voltage picks up too quickly the generator may not be fully started and may cut out again?
    When the genny starts the relay picks up and stays picked up. Thus one needs to delay the picking up until the genny runs. This delay must be long enough for cold and hot starts. Not easy to get a cold enough day to trail and error cold starts as it is still quite warm but winter is coming.

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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    Quote Originally Posted by HobieDave View Post
    Have a look at the 12v outputs of the generator for a positive when it starts.

    If there is a suitable 12v available - you get a positive as soon as it starts, you can fit a change over relay. The positive must be enabled so the starter does not run on, or cuts the starter off too soon.

    You could also try a positive to an additional oil pressure switch but the timing must be accurate to avoid the above.
    Ok so I cannot get it to work. I have + power from the GenSet when the Genset is started manually. But I cannot get the the GenSet to start on the loss of mains power. I do not understand what the internal electronics of the Change Over Switch is. Is it a relay or what is it.

    Any ideas of what outputs 301 and 306 are, do , are connected? This is where my problem is.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ATS.jpg 
Views:	100 
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ID:	620844



    Genny Wiring.pdf
    Last edited by Andrew Leigh; 2021/06/28 at 09:53 PM.

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    Default Re: YES1-160 GA/4P Automatic Transfer Switch

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Leigh View Post
    Ok so I cannot get it to work. I have + power from the GenSet when the Genset is started manually. But I cannot get the the GenSet to start on the loss of mains power. I do not understand what the internal electronics of the Change Over Switch is. Is it a relay or what is it.

    Any ideas of what outputs 301 and 306 are, do , are connected? This is where my problem is.

    Genny Wiring.pdf

    Try get the manuals from the installer and supplier, including the auto unit fitted to the genset.

    I think the change over switch is operated by a built in motor. You can confirm this by using the supplied manual change over lever and listening for the sound it makes, switch off the mains first. It fits over the big square next to the switchover key.

    I would suggest you build a housing to fit around the cps. 1. For safety. 2. You can incorporate the fuses and lights.

    You need 2 indicator lights of one colour and two of another and two fuseholders. This will help you to confirm which state the cps is in.

    Fit the fuses and connect them with 0.5 or 1mm squared panel/auto wire.

    Looking at your cps picture, it looks like an external power supply/battery is connected to 306 and 301 is the output to generator.

    You will have to confirm with a multimeter. It is also possible that it could supply a continuous output voltage when the power is on and with power failure it has no voltage. The schematic does not show a battery inside the unit.

    On the generator you are going to need another change over relay to switch on and off - wiring will depend on the cps generator output voltages. If you look at the ignition key you will find a constant positive, you can use that wire. Cut, fuse it and join into the relay. The starter relay will have the positive coming from the ignition relay now instead of the cps.

    The only issues is that it will power up with a load unless the cps needs 220v power to activate the motor inside the unit giving a slight delay and it will power down without a cooling off period - letting it idle for 5 minutes after power is back.
    Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.

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