Lithium vs Lead Acid





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  1. #1
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    Default Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Hi All

    Im considering changing my portable battery pack battery to a Lithium Iron Battery. I have a few questions that I would appreciate advise on though.

    1) Will the original Ctek D250 S charge a Lithium Iron Battery

    2) Are there other options to consider other than Blue Nova

    3) The battery pack is used to run my 80ltr ARB freezer. Given that I drive a min 4 hours a day would a 82Amp Hr suffice or should i just go for the 104AMP Hr. It not a lot more expensive

    4) Apart from wanting the normal benefits of Litho Iron i'm also wanting to changing for safety reasons. Im not comfortable with a 30kg battery pack in the back of a car even though it is tied down

    5) Given the price difference difference Lead Acid to Lithium is this a stupid idea.

    Thanks in advance and regards
    Gavin
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Wedwo View Post
    Hi All

    Im considering changing my portable battery pack battery to a Lithium Iron Battery. I have a few questions that I would appreciate advise on though.

    1) Will the original Ctek D250 S charge a Lithium Iron Battery

    2) Are there other options to consider other than Blue Nova

    3) The battery pack is used to run my 80ltr ARB freezer. Given that I drive a min 4 hours a day would a 82Amp Hr suffice or should i just go for the 104AMP Hr. It not a lot more expensive

    4) Apart from wanting the normal benefits of Litho Iron i'm also wanting to changing for safety reasons. Im not comfortable with a 30kg battery pack in the back of a car even though it is tied down

    5) Given the price difference difference Lead Acid to Lithium is this a stupid idea.

    Thanks in advance and regards
    Gavin
    Hi Wedwo

    1. Yes and No. According to CTEK, the 250D charger does not work on Lithium batteries. The required charge voltage on a BlueNova MPS drop in replacement battery is 14.4v. If the CTEK gives a lower voltage, it will still charge, but maybe not up to 100% capacity.

    2. Yes there are other brands available. One other example of a drop in replacement LiFePO4 battery is FreedomWon. There may be other brands available too. The guys from BlueNova really know all the different batteries and LiFePO4 cells available internationally and use the best suited for the application to manufacture their batteries. They may not be the cheapest, but you get quality products and after sale service (if needed). I got mine from https://www.energyon.co.za/shop/13v-...ithium-battery.

    3. The 82Ah should be more than enough as you can actually use almost 70% to 100% of the 82Ah without damaging the battery. Because of the 95%+ efficiency of lithium batteries, you actually charge it faster than lead-acid using the same charge current.
    Do consider getting a bigger DC-DC charger (30A-50A) to charge the battery in a shorter time for your 4hr trips. You can charge the 82Ah BlueNova battery at up to 82A without any damage to the batyery. Just don't overload your alternator.

    4. Safety is one thing, but having a 100Ah Lead-Acid battery as "portable" is not portable at all (>35kg). Lithium should weigh about 11 to 15kg for the same physical size, but almost double the usable Wh capacity.

    5. It's the best move I ever made. Just make sure you do NOT put it in the engine bay. It gets too hot and makes the builtin BMS switch off the battery to protect it until it cools down. I had that issue when I had it in the engine bay driving 5 days through the Namib. :-(

    Look out for other comments. There's a lot of clever people here with different experience than me. :-)
    Last edited by Monkey-D; 2020/09/08 at 11:47 PM.
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  4. #3
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    If you are looking at the different Bluenovas, a small thing to keep in mind is that - at least last time I checked - the 104ah (1,300w) is the only one with Bluetooth - the battery monitoring app is nice to have.

    They can discharge much deeper and though they are more expensive, they will pay for themselves in longevity.

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  6. #4
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    What is the approximate price for an 80Ah Li-ion? And 100Ah?
    Kobus

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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    The other option you can check is this : https://lithiumbatteriessa.co.za/ I'm using this cells in my setup and they work really good. There was one person that did a Test over Des time with a 12v setup with Waeco fridge to see how long it will run while there where camping

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  10. #6
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by KobusDJ View Post
    What is the approximate price for an 80Ah Li-ion? And 100Ah?

    They are on takealot.

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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by heyyahhey View Post
    If you are looking at the different Bluenovas, a small thing to keep in mind is that - at least last time I checked - the 104ah (1,300w) is the only one with Bluetooth - the battery monitoring app is nice to have.

    They can discharge much deeper and though they are more expensive, they will pay for themselves in longevity.
    The drop in BN 108 does not have Bluetooth. They do have a model that does but it is larger in size but it is more expensive.

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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by TRON View Post
    The drop in BN 108 does not have Bluetooth. They do have a model that does but it is larger in size but it is more expensive.
    108 no Bluetooth
    104 does have bluetooth and smaller.
    www.lani4travel.com

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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by TRON View Post
    The drop in BN 108 does not have Bluetooth. They do have a model that does but it is larger in size but it is more expensive.

    The 104ah 1300w has bluetooth - I have 4 of them...

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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by oradba69 View Post
    108 no Bluetooth104 does have bluetooth and smaller.
    Yep.

  15. #11
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Many Thanks all

    I appreciate you taking the time to reply. It a pity about the Ctek D250s not being able to do the job. Given that I go for the BN 104Amp Hr What DC to Dc chargers would be recommended for this set up.

    Regards Gavin
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  16. #12
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Hi Gavin - the guys at BlueNova recommended the National Luna DC to DC (25 or 40A) units, I purchased the 25A version. I've got the 104A BlueNova with Bluetooth and the system performs flawlessly.

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  18. #13
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    What about Victron?

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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerlach View Post
    The other option you can check is this : https://lithiumbatteriessa.co.za/ I'm using this cells in my setup and they work really good. There was one person that did a Test over Des time with a 12v setup with Waeco fridge to see how long it will run while there where camping
    Their prices seem really good - about half that of Blue Nova. What battery charger do you use? Do you charge from 220v, or from Solar panels?

    Thanks
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  20. #15
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by nicom View Post
    Hi Gavin - the guys at BlueNova recommended the National Luna DC to DC (25 or 40A) units, I purchased the 25A version. I've got the 104A BlueNova with Bluetooth and the system performs flawlessly.
    Ditto, also have it and it works great.
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Great advice given already, I only have one more thing to add.
    Should you not go for the Blue Nova with bluetooth, then you'll need a proper battery monitor which can show you state of charge, something like the Victron BMV712 smart.

    With lithium batteries you can't gauge state of charge by the voltage like you can do with lead acid batteries, because the voltage stays constant until the battery is almost flat. Without a monitor to see the state of charge you'll be happily going along with your battery at 13.3V thinking you've got plenty left, then suddenly it will start dropping and dropping fast.

    I'm also a fan of Blue Nova even though they are expensive, something which impressed me a lot about that battery with the bluetooth is that it will actually show you the state of charge or SOC and not only voltage, so you don't need a external battery monitor.
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  23. #17
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerlach View Post
    The other option you can check is this : https://lithiumbatteriessa.co.za/ I'm using this cells in my setup and they work really good. There was one person that did a Test over Des time with a 12v setup with Waeco fridge to see how long it will run while there where camping
    also looking at this..
    However his cells are sold out....

    and i wonder about the compatibility of his bms with dc dc chargers..

    w
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by propofol View Post
    also looking at this..
    However his cells are sold out....

    and i wonder about the compatibility of his bms with dc dc chargers..

    w
    I built myself two 120AH portable batteries using his cells and BMS. Wors very nicely. One does not need to overthink Lifep04 batteries too much, especially for occasional camping use. They are easily compatible with most chargers that charge lead acid batteries. What you don't want is something that does a pulse type of charge. Any DC DC converter is perfect. In my practical experience the Lifep04's charge up nicely at exactly the same voltage as lead acid batteries, even off an alternator is fine. If the battery only charges to 99%, it really does not matter. At 13.3 v it's at 90%, 13.4v 99%, 13.6v 100% and 14.4v still 100%.

    I can run my NL 90 fridge on full tilt non-stop flat out for around 48 hours on one 120AH battery. Real-life camping in extreme conditions that would translate to three or four days easy.

    If you run Lifepo4's daily on a system in your house, then you might want to give the charge cycle much more consideration, i.e. no float charge should be applied constantly. For the odd weekend camping, it's really not going to matter.

    Probably the most important thing for camping use is that you should store them at 50% charge, never fully charged or fully discharged.

    I made nice compact portable boxes for mine, - sorry don't have a photo now.

    But best thing I ever did. Would never go back to traditional batteries. The freedom of being able to use them down to 0% without much worry is awesome.
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  26. #19
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Thx fir the reply:

    i wonder if anyone have charged them off an alternator.. I have a NL solenoid box spare at home...
    Wouter

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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Ps:

    would love to see the boxes you made...
    Wouter

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