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  1. #381
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by WantOnsKan View Post
    I did a test with mine, connected to an empty 65l SM, set it to - 22 deg C and ambient temps in side around 18 deg C. It ran for about 39 hours and battery reached +-10%. Opened lid once or twice.
    It increasingly appears that my test was not fair to the point of exclusion. I set the Engle to where I know it will stay at about 3, in an eye-wateringly cold house, opened about twice, with a bottle of water. It probably almost never cycled.

    I'll do a detailed tv-station test, with constant draw, when the power goes down again. That event at least is as certain as death and taxes.
    Leon Smith
    2020 Toyota Hilux XtraCab 2.8 4x4
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  3. #382
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by WantOnsKan View Post
    I bought it from Tentpro, this is the 50 cal. Fat ammo box.
    Thank you!

  4. #383
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by leons View Post
    Ran a 40l Engel for 30 hours, with some phone charging, and brought the SOC down to 94%.
    Quote Originally Posted by WantOnsKan View Post
    I did a test with mine, connected to an empty 65l SM, set it to - 22 deg C and ambient temps in side around 18 deg C. It ran for about 39 hours and battery reached +-10%. Opened lid once or twice.
    Quote Originally Posted by leons View Post
    It increasingly appears that my test was not fair to the point of exclusion. I set the Engle to where I know it will stay at about 3, in an eye-wateringly cold house, opened about twice, with a bottle of water. It probably almost never cycled.

    I'll do a detailed tv-station test, with constant draw, when the power goes down again. That event at least is as certain as death and taxes.

    Leons, I had similar-ish results camping 2 weekends ago in Marakele. The engel 40L has (or had when I got mine) the lowest power draw out of all 40L 12V fridges, max 2.5A / hour. I guess this would be at freezing.

    Mine is in a bag, insulated. After +- 48 hours, cold, 2 and 5 at night, running fridge at 1, camping so using the fridge, charging cell phone, my BN108 was at 72% soc. That was from 100% soc with no recharging.

    Needless to say, pleasantly surprised
    Stuart

    2006 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 4.7L V8

  5. #384
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by slodj View Post
    Leons, I had similar-ish results camping 2 weekends ago in Marakele. The engel 40L has (or had when I got mine) the lowest power draw out of all 40L 12V fridges, max 2.5A / hour. I guess this would be at freezing.

    Mine is in a bag, insulated. After +- 48 hours, cold, 2 and 5 at night, running fridge at 1, camping so using the fridge, charging cell phone, my BN108 was at 72% soc. That was from 100% soc with no recharging.

    Needless to say, pleasantly surprised
    Thanks for the feedback Stuart! I tell you, these little Engel's seem to be the bee's knees. And the BN batteries are amazing. Mine just won't lose charge...
    Leon Smith
    2020 Toyota Hilux XtraCab 2.8 4x4
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  6. #385
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by slodj View Post

    Mine is in a bag, insulated.
    I can't find an insulated bag anywhere! Where did you get yours?
    Leon Smith
    2020 Toyota Hilux XtraCab 2.8 4x4
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  7. #386
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    It's a Howling Moon Engel 40L cover. IIRC from Outdoor Warehouse, though I can't find it now on their site.

    4x4 MW also have a cover which looks similar to mine.

    https://www.4x4megaworldonline.com/r...-fridge-cover/

    The picture here is wrong:

    https://www.howlingmoon.co.za/produc...dge-cover-40l/
    Last edited by slodj; 2021/06/16 at 06:43 PM.
    Stuart

    2006 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 4.7L V8

  8. #387
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Die SwartKat View Post
    You're installation is very very neat. But I swallow a little hard on this part. Maybe run that test for us again to make sure.

    Even with the fridge outside with ambient temps around 10 degrees. That sounds a little too good to be true.
    I have testet my 60l NL on a 100Ah lifepo. Fridge set @1Deg [email protected] Just left it. After 80hrs the battery was plat. It is winter but still very impressive
    2002 Discovery td5

  9. #388
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    It is not about how long it runs without use. It is all about how many times you open it and or replenish stock....
    Last edited by Dungbeetle; 2021/06/17 at 07:52 PM.
    Dont blame yourself over past mistakes. Its like driving down the N1 while looking in the rear view mirror only.

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  11. #389
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Dungbeetle View Post
    It is not about how long it runs without use. It is all about how many times you open it and or replenish stock....
    I suppose this discussion really has to do with the efficiency of LFP batteries vs. that of lead based ones. We know that LFP's can be discharged to a lower SOC. So that's a plus.

    I wonder if there is a big difference in C rates. The Blue Nova is rated as 108Ah at C10. So what about at C30, or C50? Because that's what's happening here, and even slower C rates. And how does lead handle C rates? Any experts out there?
    Leon Smith
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  13. #390
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by leons View Post
    I suppose this discussion really has to do with the efficiency of LFP batteries vs. that of lead based ones. We know that LFP's can be discharged to a lower SOC. So that's a plus.

    I wonder if there is a big difference in C rates. The Blue Nova is rated as 108Ah at C10. So what about at C30, or C50? Because that's what's happening here, and even slower C rates. And how does lead handle C rates? Any experts out there?
    Firstly, definitely not an expert, but I'll give it a try.

    The interwebs say:

    'The C Rating is defined by the rate of time it takes to charge or discharge a battery.
    As the rate of discharge increases, the battery's available capacity decreases.'

    For example: 1C is 1 hour. C10 is 10 hours.

    This means that one should get the full power of the BN108 battery if it is discharged at a rate of 10.8A/hour for 10 hours.

    If a battery is discharged at a lower rate that its C rate, one gets ever-so slightly more power. At a higher rate, increasingly less power.

    In the latter case the capacity / power is not 'lost'. It's still there, just currently unavailable, 'scuse the pun
    If the then-flat battery is left for some hours, or a day or more, it recovers and the last remaining power can be used.

    Each battery chemistry, and possibly battery construction, is affected to a greater or lesser extent by this phenomenon,
    which is known as Peukert's Law.
    Last edited by slodj; 2021/06/19 at 10:42 AM.
    Stuart

    2006 Toyota Land Cruiser 100 4.7L V8

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  15. #391
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by slodj View Post
    Firstly, definitely not an expert, but I'll give it a try.

    The interwebs say:

    'The C Rating is defined by the rate of time it takes to charge or discharge a battery.
    As the rate of discharge increases, the battery's available capacity decreases.'

    For example: 1C is 1 hour. C10 is 10 hours.

    This means that one should get the full power of the BN108 battery if it is discharged at a rate of 10.8A/hour for 10 hours.

    If a battery is discharged at a lower rate that its C rate, one gets ever-so slightly more power. At a higher rate, increasingly less power.

    In the latter case the capacity / power is not 'lost'. It's still there, just currently unavailable, 'scuse the pun
    If the then-flat battery is left for some hours, or a day or more, it recovers and the last remaining power can be used.

    Each battery chemistry, and possibly battery construction, is affected to a greater or lesser extent by this phenomenon,
    which is known as Peukert's Law.
    You are correct. Defenition of c-rate
    Charge and discharge rates of a battery are governed by C-rates. The capacity of a battery is commonly rated at 1C, meaning that a fully charged battery rated at 1Ah should provide 1A for one hour.
    2002 Discovery td5

  16. #392
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by slodj View Post
    Firstly, definitely not an expert, but I'll give it a try.

    The interwebs say:

    'The C Rating is defined by the rate of time it takes to charge or discharge a battery.
    As the rate of discharge increases, the battery's available capacity decreases.'

    For example: 1C is 1 hour. C10 is 10 hours.

    This means that one should get the full power of the BN108 battery if it is discharged at a rate of 10.8A/hour for 10 hours.

    If a battery is discharged at a lower rate that its C rate, one gets ever-so slightly more power. At a higher rate, increasingly less power.

    In the latter case the capacity / power is not 'lost'. It's still there, just currently unavailable, 'scuse the pun
    If the then-flat battery is left for some hours, or a day or more, it recovers and the last remaining power can be used.

    Each battery chemistry, and possibly battery construction, is affected to a greater or lesser extent by this phenomenon,
    which is known as Peukert's Law.
    The Peukert Law expresses the efficiency factor of a battery on discharge. W. Peukert, a German scientist (18551932), was aware that the available capacity of a battery decreases with increasing discharge rate and he devised a formula to calculate the losses in numbers. The law is applied mostly to lead acid to help estimate the runtime under different discharge loads.
    2002 Discovery td5

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  18. #393
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by leons View Post
    I suppose this discussion really has to do with the efficiency of LFP batteries vs. that of lead based ones. We know that LFP's can be discharged to a lower SOC. So that's a plus.

    I wonder if there is a big difference in C rates. The Blue Nova is rated as 108Ah at C10. So what about at C30, or C50? Because that's what's happening here, and even slower C rates. And how does lead handle C rates? Any experts out there?
    Just got this info from BlueNova themselves:
    The BN13V-108-1.4k MPS battery is 108Ah at C10, but 100Ah at C1. So there's really not much difference in capacity at different rates.
    Do however take note that the MPS range has a 3year warranty when sticking to the stated specs (Discharge @ C1 max, Charge @ C2 max).

    The warranty does not tell you how long the battery will last as it should last 5-10+ years if used correctly.
    Riaan

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  20. #394
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Does anyone know of any 3.2v 120Ah cells that are in stock.
    Cant find them anywhere.

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