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  1. #121
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Mypro-D View Post
    The idea was from Fredsport originally: Ask for the 4 cell kit (R5400) and upgrade to 8 cells with extra connectors (R4800).
    This titbit the key: That BMS can only take 4 cells - count the red wires.
    So one needs a 2nd BMS for 4 more cells, for a 12v system.
    Last edited by the_terrible_triplett; 2020/09/25 at 12:10 PM.
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  2. #122
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    This titbit the key: That BMS can only take 4 cells - count the red wires.
    So one needs a 2nd BMS for 4 more cells, for a 12v system.
    Yep, that's what I thought. Wonder how he is only using 1BMS. Id like to do it properly.

    Thank you!

  3. #123
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    So the very very friendly folk at Lithiumbatterysa gave me this diagram. This is how it should be wired with their BMS.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #124
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Mypro-D View Post
    So the very very friendly folk at Lithiumbatterysa gave me this diagram. This is how it should be wired with their BMS.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Yip I done that, works
    Donít blame yourself over past mistakes. Itís like driving down the N1 while looking in the rear view mirror only.

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  6. #125
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Mypro-D View Post
    So the very very friendly folk at Lithiumbatterysa gave me this diagram. This is how it should be wired with their BMS.
    And there I learnt something new!!! Thanks for posting that here.
    Political Correctness
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    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

  7. #126
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Sharing is caring!

    I dont have enough busbars so I cant connect it up.
    Anyone know where I can get these in Cape Town? I am 4 short

  8. #127
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Mypro-D View Post
    Sharing is caring!

    I dont have enough busbars so I cant connect it up.
    Anyone know where I can get these in Cape Town? I am 4 short
    Get a alum flat bar from your local hardware shop. Make your own
    Donít blame yourself over past mistakes. Itís like driving down the N1 while looking in the rear view mirror only.

    2000 Patrol GU 4.2D(onkey) "old-timer" and wise at 854 000 km
    2014 Patrol GU 3.0CRD "teenager" in puberty at 121 000 km
    2007 Echo3 Trailer "the nest" Braked Axle fitted at +60 000 km
    2012 NP300 YD2.5 D/C 2x4 High Rider "platkar" at 125 000 km

  9. #128
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    And there I learnt something new!!! Thanks for posting that here.
    At each BMS on the website there is a detail picture how to connect the cells and BMS and the load/charger connections.
    Full marks for the information provided.

  10. #129
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    No one had the alu bars so just to test I bought some Copper Earth Strip and doubled it up.

    I am posting this here because I know absolutely nothing about these things and perhaps someone could learn from this.

    I bought the DIY kit from from lithiumbatteriessa along with 4 extra cells. I did not know these were 2nd life until it was posted elsewhere. Its my own fault as I didn't read it properly but its not an issue for me.

    Anyways nevertheless the plan was to install them just like the pic I posted earlier. Alas, they did not fit.
    So I put them in a different way. Initially, they did not fit as the bottom of the box was a little narrower than the top.
    I made a false floor to raise the cells off the ground and to allow the box to flex a little to accommodate the cells.
    I did not use the wires from the BMS as it had shaved through the protective sheath from trying to bend the wire around the box.
    Instead I used their wires provided ( 8 awg silicone rated at 200 Degrees ) Cut off the ring of two lugs and drilled holes to screw onto the BMS and then crimped onto their wire.

    I measured the cells once all was connected and got 13.1 volts. Success!
    I charged them up and they took 68AH and now read 13.2 Volts, 3.3 per cell. I am guessing this is because they are now only at 80% of their initial capacity.

    I connected the inverter up and tested with a load ( Heat Gun ) it pulled 109 Amps for one minute and all was fine. Wires from the inverter were a little warm but not hot. I connected a Nespresso machine and made a cup of coffee, no problem. Inverter peaked at 1380 Watts. Voltage dropped to around 12.1 and once there was no load settled at 13.2 within 30 seconds.

    I was going to order a BMV 712 but considering this is a budget build I have ordered a TR16 350A from Banggood +- R 850-00.
    The charger in the vehicle is a NL 25A DC-DC and for home charging a Victron Energy Blue Smart 12/25.

    Excuse the pics as this was to test, I will get the correct Busbars soon and sort that out.
    Thanks for all the info in this thread, it was a great learning experience!

    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #130
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Mypro-D View Post
    ... I will get the correct Busbars soon and sort that out.
    Just order more from LithiumBattSA, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mypro-D View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Because of THAT pic, how it is wired, now I want to double up on my APC UPS battery replacement too, using 8 more cells (24v), totaling 16 of these cells in the end, on the same BMS.

    It would then be 24v 12ah (2x6ah) with max 10amps relaxed charging (BMS limit), more than ok as the previous 4 x 12v 7ah cells was 24v 14ah.

    But for the life of me I cannot figure out how the red balancing wires should then be connected.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Political Correctness
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    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

  13. #131
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    Just order more from LithiumBattSA, no?



    Because of THAT pic, how it is wired, now I want to double up on my APC UPS battery replacement too, using 8 more cells (24v), totaling 16 of these cells in the end, on the same BMS.

    It would then be 24v 12ah (2x6ah) with max 10amps relaxed charging (BMS limit), more than ok as the previous 4 x 12v 7ah cells was 24v 14ah.

    But for the life of me I cannot figure out how the red balancing wires should then be connected.
    Full Disclosure here. The other half is an Engineer and helped me with my layout even after they sent me a pic. I will ask her to draw me a picture. Unfortunately her field is more Mechanical but, has a basic understanding of how these nodes should be positioned.

  14. #132
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Mypro-D View Post
    Full Disclosure here. The other half is an Engineer and helped me with my layout even after they sent me a pic. I will ask her to draw me a picture. Unfortunately her field is more Mechanical but, has a basic understanding of how these nodes should be positioned.
    That teeny titbit caught my attention ... please do.

    Full disclosure here too - between 2 males:
    1) I've blow one 16s 150amp BMS already.
    Being the first time ever that I had to wire said BMS in on 16 cells, it was not mentioned that on cell 9, that you connect the black wire to the neg pole, and not the pos pole.
    A teeny weeny extremely salient and easy to communicate piece of info for a first time newbie connecting a brand new BMS.

    2) 2nd one I did everything by the book ... yet it had to be sent back as faulty.
    This time I got a 2nd opinion in before sending it back ... by the book I say.

    Ps. I so wish, in the world we live in today, that we had more females in the driving seat, also in politics ... we desperately need them today to help un-f..k this world we live in. I'm dead serious.
    Political Correctness
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional illogical minority, rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd ... by the clean end!

    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

  15. #133
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Mypro-D View Post
    No one had the alu bars so just to test I bought some Copper Earth Strip and doubled it up.

    I am posting this here because I know absolutely nothing about these things and perhaps someone could learn from this.

    I bought the DIY kit from from lithiumbatteriessa along with 4 extra cells. I did not know these were 2nd life until it was posted elsewhere. Its my own fault as I didn't read it properly but its not an issue for me.

    Anyways nevertheless the plan was to install them just like the pic I posted earlier. Alas, they did not fit.
    So I put them in a different way. Initially, they did not fit as the bottom of the box was a little narrower than the top.
    I made a false floor to raise the cells off the ground and to allow the box to flex a little to accommodate the cells.
    I did not use the wires from the BMS as it had shaved through the protective sheath from trying to bend the wire around the box.
    Instead I used their wires provided ( 8 awg silicone rated at 200 Degrees ) Cut off the ring of two lugs and drilled holes to screw onto the BMS and then crimped onto their wire.

    I measured the cells once all was connected and got 13.1 volts. Success!
    I charged them up and they took 68AH and now read 13.2 Volts, 3.3 per cell. I am guessing this is because they are now only at 80% of their initial capacity.

    I connected the inverter up and tested with a load ( Heat Gun ) it pulled 109 Amps for one minute and all was fine. Wires from the inverter were a little warm but not hot. I connected a Nespresso machine and made a cup of coffee, no problem. Inverter peaked at 1380 Watts. Voltage dropped to around 12.1 and once there was no load settled at 13.2 within 30 seconds.

    I was going to order a BMV 712 but considering this is a budget build I have ordered a TR16 350A from Banggood +- R 850-00.
    The charger in the vehicle is a NL 25A DC-DC and for home charging a Victron Energy Blue Smart 12/25.

    Excuse the pics as this was to test, I will get the correct Busbars soon and sort that out.
    Thanks for all the info in this thread, it was a great learning experience!

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I really wouldnít bother getting the bus bars. Aluminum is coppers cheap underperforming cousin anyway.

    Those copper links will carry a 10 times what you are doing without breaking a sweat.
    Cheers

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  16. #134
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Those copper links will carry a 10 times what you are doing without breaking a sweat.
    Fluffy, this is very interesting!
    Just to confirm I understand properly, we can use the same Copper Earth Strip as in the picture, instead of those horrible aluminum busbars, to connect these type of cells?
    Can one go single or double up as Myprodol, whoops, Mypro-D did?

    My case call it 200amps max DC the inverter can do.
    Political Correctness
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional illogical minority, rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd ... by the clean end!

    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

  17. #135
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    Fluffy, this is very interesting!
    Just to confirm I understand properly, we can use the same Copper Earth Strip as in the picture, instead of those horrible aluminum busbars, to connect these type of cells?
    Can one go single or double up as Myprodol, whoops, Mypro-D did?

    My case call it 200amps max DC the inverter can do.
    Those earth strips are only 3.5sq mm per single strip so perhaps you need 4 or even more for 200A.

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  19. #136
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Trying this for my alarm system back up, 4s2p 12ah.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  20. #137
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by leoridge View Post
    Trying this for my alarm system back up, 4s2p 12ah.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Great idea! Where did you source those holders?
    Political Correctness
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional illogical minority, rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd ... by the clean end!

    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

  21. #138
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    Great idea! Where did you source those holders?
    Banggood , AliExpress have as well.Click image for larger version. 

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  23. #139
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by leoridge View Post
    Banggood , AliExpress have as well.
    Found some here in SA too: https://www.electromannsa.com/produc...osite-bracket?
    Last edited by the_terrible_triplett; 2020/09/30 at 09:18 PM.
    Political Correctness
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional illogical minority, rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd ... by the clean end!

    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

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  25. #140
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Mypro D,

    Your aux box looks mighty neat! I see on the outside it says 12V aux box but...Ö..

    But please explain to me what you did in the 1st pic.

    For the life of me, I cannot figure out how those cells are connected.

    This will bug me for the whole day and I need to know. It would've helped a lot if I could figure out which side of each battery is + and which is -

    It looks like parallel / serie connection? There just too many bars in my layman mind

    What capacity are the individual cells and how did you connect them?
    Nico Swart

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