Lithium vs Lead Acid

[bigboy529]

Hi Guys

Will be replacing Lead Acid batteries with Blue Nova Life PO4 Battery with Blue Tooth, my setup must support the BN Batteries.

Setup as follows, could you guys comment, feel free to add or remove :

* Victron MPPT 30amp Regulator
* Victron Blue Smart Charger 12/30
* CTEK D250S Dual Regulator - DC to Dc Charging & has Solar Panel Port(180w Max.)
* 2 x Rigid Solar 135w 8,5amps Panels

* Yes, Victron MPPT 100/30 is perfect, I would recommend Smartsolar with bluetooth over the Bluesolar. In a 12V system the 100/30 can utilize a max of 440W of solar, you'll still be able to plug in your 4 135W panels, you just won't get a full 540W of charge, maybe start out with 2 panels and if you see the need only add 1 more later, connect them in series.
* The Blue smart 12/30 is actually overkill for this application, unless you are buying such a big charger for other uses as well, you can actually go a bit smaller and save some money. A 15 amp, even 10 amp will be fine.
* Why the CTEK specifically since you already have a dedicated solar controller? I'd rather get a DC-DC charger only, something like the Victron Orion TR smart 18 amp or 30 amp, actually the 18 amp will be enough.
* If you don't get the Blue Nova battery with bluetooth, then I would highly recommend you get a Victron BMV712 smart monitor or the Smart shunt to be able to monitor your battery state of charge and much more.

[Gerlach]

Did a check now, 11836 CycleAH on my first Lifepo4 bank, I did use a Avg of between 45ah and 60ah a night out of the 140ah storage and a bit in the day when I'm busy dumping my extra solar to the geyser. Now with the second bank I'm using less AH per side now. 3de BMS arrived so 3de bank is in the plans of added, and extra 3 pannels to.

[ekkekan]

In a parallel connection, your watts and Volts stays the same, which is 135W in your case

The Volts yes but the watts do ADD up as more panels are connected in parallel.

[Die SwartKat]

The Volts yes but the watts do ADD up as more panels are connected in parallel.

Ai jai jai, how did I get this wrong

Thanks ekkekan, going to fix my post right now.

[Changa Bulanga]

Is it possible or advisable to parallel two lithium batteries to double AH capacity?

[Gerlach]

Is it possible or advisable to parallel two lithium batteries to double AH capacity?

Jip, correct. The more you parallel the bigger the AH capacity.

[Dungbeetle]

Is it possible or advisable to parallel two lithium batteries to double AH capacity?

No simple answer for this

It all depends if there is parallel compatible BMS on the battery.

Individual cells can be connected in parallel - a BMS will simply see it as one cell

Rather ask the supplier

For example - this one you cannot connect in Parallel:
(see the DATA SHEET link)

https://www.diygeek.co.za/wp-content...00-new-002.pdf

[the_terrible_triplett]

From what I have learnt so far, if you have a DC busbar for Pos and Neg, you can connect multiple similar battery banks onto the same system because each battery bank will have it's own BMS.

Vs paralleling cells on the same BMS, THAT is a whole new ballgame, and totality reliant on the BMS being used.

I know for a fact that Revov and LithiumSA's batteries can be paralleled if each bank is connected to the same busbar, with each bank having it's own BMS to manage the cells per bank.

Having said that: Best is to check with the manufacturer/supplier of the battery bank, or the BMS.

[BoyMeetsBush]

What about Victron?

In my opinion Victron is the best option. My complete setup is Victron
I have Orion Tr 12-12-30 DC DC charger, Solar is Victron MPPT 75/15, victron 375 pure sine wave inverter and victron Battery Protect 65. Victron products are with built in bluetooth and Blue Nova 104AH w/bluetooth.

[bigboy529]

From what I have learnt so far, if you have a DC busbar for Pos and Neg, you can connect multiple similar battery banks onto the same system because each battery bank will have it's own BMS.

Vs paralleling cells on the same BMS, THAT is a whole new ballgame, and totality reliant on the BMS being used.

I know for a fact that Revov and LithiumSA's batteries can be paralleled if each bank is connected to the same busbar, with each bank having it's own BMS to manage the cells per bank.

Having said that: Best is to check with the manufacturer/supplier of the battery bank, or the BMS.

True, every manufacturer have their own way so best to find out about the specific model. The Blue Nova Classic range for example can be paralleled, you connect the batteries to each other via the Can Bus port, you then configure the first BMS in the chain to be the master and tell it how many batteries are in the chain. The master BMS will then take over and manage the entire bank, but all the other BMS's in the chain will still have their protection in place in case something goes wrong with the master BMS, all very clever actually.

[ekkekan]

No simple answer for this

It all depends if there is parallel compatible BMS on the battery.

Individual cells can be connected in parallel - a BMS will simply see it as one cell

Rather ask the supplier

For example - this one you cannot connect in Parallel:
(see the DATA SHEET link)

https://www.diygeek.co.za/wp-content...00-new-002.pdf

Thanks for the link. Of interest is the last point i.r.o. inverters to be in parallel and not the batteries.


A point to take note of is the 0.5C max discharge current for the Mecer 200Ah. The 120Ah from lithiumbatteriessa.co.za has a 1.5C max discharge current.

[Gerlach]

As julle will baie probleme he, connect daai 12v lithium outjies wat op die diygeek page is in series. Ppppaappppaaa!!! Jy gaan so ^#(@^#(@ . Ek weet van 3 installs wat die ouens dit in 48v setup gedoen het. Maand later, niks werk nie. Die een battery weet nie wat die ander een langs hom doen nie. Over charge, under charge, op swell pouch cells en n helse gemors. Ons het op powerforum oor dit gepraat en ek fotos gepost hoe hulle binne lyk.

As jy parallel gaan connect en bly op 12v, dan sal die batterye werk. Die amp charge gaan net gesplit word tussen hulle tot die een vol is en die bms FIT's die charge stop en dan skywe daai extra amps oor na die ander battery unit toe.

Jip, battery unit wat coms en canbus het help baie want die batterye se bms praat dan met mekaar.

Ek het 2 x 48v units met elk 16s selle in met elk hulle eie bms maar hulle praat nie met mekaar tans nie, maar so ver werk hulle baie goed saam en is parallel connected.

[ekkekan]

Gerlach jou info is nou presies die teenoorgestelde wat Mecer mens wil wys maak soos op my foto wat geplaas is.

[Gerlach]

Gerlach jou info is nou presies die teenoorgestelde wat Mecer mens wil wys maak soos op my foto wat geplaas is.

Jammer. Was n mal dag die kant.

Ekkekan, jip. Dit is presies teenoorgestelde want ek het presies gesien wat gebeer. Die een setup het 4series en 2 parallel setup gehardloop, so 8 batterye. 48v setup. Na n maand lank toe begin die hele setup in die nag begin grid gebruik en die stats wat die inverter begin wys het nie begin sin maak nie. Toe ons die batterye begin meet, toe staan een op 18v, ander een 10v en ander batteryr se volts die wereld vol. Een se BMS was klaar uit gebrand ook. Wat gebeer is, die battery charge, een raak vol gecharge, dan sny die bms se FITs die charge op daai batterye, dan wat gebeer is, die klomp volts wat charge hardloop na die ander 3 batterye toe want onthou die discharge fits bly toe sy hy gee nog steeds volts uit.

Die hele setup raak uit sink uit so, presies die selfde soos wat lood suur batterye ook doen oor die tyd, dis hoekom jy sal sien op die Powerforum soek almal Ha2 ballancers of die victron sin. Dat dit kan help met ballancing van selle.

Daar was nog n setup wat die selfde installer ook gedoen het met n Sunsynk, presies die selfde. System maak goeie krag en dan so maand of 2 later begin ala rond neek.

Daar was so 2 of 3 maande terug nog iemand op FB wat op die solar groep gepost het wat 16 van die 12v lithium outjies gekoop het van n plek bo in JHB. Selfde storie gebad waar als ok werk en dan begin die volts hetemal uit sink uit raak tussen die selle. Dit was een helse fight tussen die koper en verkoper later gewees oo fb.

As jy google " can you use 12v lithium batteries in series" sal jy baie sien onder Victron se goed wat die ouens van proebleme praat.

[Prof]

...........

So met ander woorde jy benut of koop of maak Lithium batterye 'fit to size' as ek jou post reg verstaan.
Going parallel is ok?

So moenie Lithium dieselfde hanteer as loodsiur batterye nie.

Lithium nog lank buite my finansiele vermoe, maar kennis opdoen eindig nooit

[Gerlach]

So met ander woorde jy benut of koop of maak Lithium batterye 'fit to size' as ek jou post reg verstaan.
Going parallel is ok?

So moenie Lithium dieselfde hanteer as loodsiur batterye nie.

Lithium nog lank buite my finansiele vermoe, maar kennis opdoen eindig nooit

OP jou eerste gedeelte, Jy kan so se. EK bou vir my self en het al n paar ounes gehelp ook al met hulle DIY setups. Moet einste volgende week nog iemand gaan help met 32 sell setup. Ek speel al n tydjie en het vriende wat al lank in die game is so leer by hulle en deel kennis tussen mekaar soos wat ons find. Ek is op n ander forum oorsee waar hulle al jare lank met lithium/Lifepo4 batterye al werk so daar is baie om te leer tussen daai ounens. Dis hoekom ek in die DIY goed is, jy leer baie daar uit en dit is baie fun. Jy kom op baie snaakse goed af ook.

Jip, net soos jy daar se, moet nie Lithium die selfde hantoor soos lood batterye nie.

Wel, lithiums raak al hoe goedkoper nou en gaan nog geodkoper raak.

[Mypro-D]

From what I have learnt so far, if you have a DC busbar for Pos and Neg, you can connect multiple similar battery banks onto the same system because each battery bank will have it's own BMS.

Vs paralleling cells on the same BMS, THAT is a whole new ballgame, and totality reliant on the BMS being used.

I know for a fact that Revov and LithiumSA's batteries can be paralleled if each bank is connected to the same busbar, with each bank having it's own BMS to manage the cells per bank.

Having said that: Best is to check with the manufacturer/supplier of the battery bank, or the BMS.

I am new to this and have ordered one of these to try it out. i think for the price it was a no brainer.
So I went and ordered the normal DIY kit and added the extra cells.

Now I am wondering how to connect it all up? The standard kit is straight forward, but whats the best way ( Or Only Way ) to add the other cells?

[the_terrible_triplett]

I am new to this and have ordered one of these to try it out. i think for the price it was a no brainer.
So I went and ordered the normal DIY kit and added the extra cells.

Now I am wondering how to connect it all up? The standard kit is straight forward, but whats the best way ( Or Only Way ) to add the other cells?

Just to make sure, one cannot add more sells to a BMS than what it can handle.
To add more cells one would have to get a 2nd BMS to manage those cells.

If you have a 2nd bank and BMS, presuming both are similar type cells and BMS'es, then you connect both banks to the same inverter, at the same spot.
Each BMS will take care of the cells connected to it.

[Mypro-D]

Just to make sure, one cannot add more sells to a BMS than what it can handle.
To add more cells one would have to get a 2nd BMS to manage those cells.

If you have a 2nd bank and BMS, presuming both are similar type cells and BMS'es, then you connect both banks to the same inverter, at the same spot.
Each BMS will take care of the cells connected to it.

That makes ALOT more sense. I called and asked them to double the capacity and add any accessories I would need.
Seems as though they did not send another BMS. I was confused as to how to connect it all up. But a 2nd BMS makes more sense.

The idea was from Fredsport originally.

My lithium Eskom buster:
1) 8 lithium cells from www.lithiumsouthafrica.co.za. Ask for the 4 cell kit (R5400) and upgrade to 8 cells with extra connectors (R4800). 8 cells gives you 240Ah easily down to 10% capacity remaining. (Not like lead acid battery which you can take down to 50%, i.e. a typical 120Ah lead acid only gives you usable 60Ah). I think 4000 charge cycles if you really abuse/drain the battery until it switches off.
2) 1500W (peak 3000W) pure sinewave inverter. Facebook market place R2500 it was a good deal about a year ago.
3) WRND dual DC-DC charger. R2250.
4) Watt meter at 4x4 direct, harrison plugs, wire, crimping tools (like a kid in a candy store). R1000? (I bought too many things)
5) I reused my old National Luna battery box.
6) I reused my old 2x80W solar panels. Yesterday late afternoon gave 100W
7) i reused my old car battery charger. Charges at 8A
Alternator charges at 20A.
WRND takes "dirty" electricity (alternator/solar) and feeds it to the battery box. Watt meter showed 239W coming out of the the WRND.
DO NOT USE LiFePO4 cells without a BMS. It comes with the kit.
Car battery charger works off 240V as inhouse charging source.
And yes 240Ah LiFePO4 cells do fit in that box where Only 1x105Ah lead acid deep cycle could.
So now i have close to 240Ah useable compared to 55-ish Ah with my previous setup.
And yes it feels expensive, but I am thinking longterm with less hassle.

[the_terrible_triplett]

So I have a APC UPS that needed 4 x 12v batteries. I'm tired of lead acid replacements every 3-5 years.

Yea, see, I need said UPS for my own protection as it keeps the PC running when "alterations" take place on the main solar system and I "forget" my Pc is on.

Took out the lead acids, and put in a 24v lithium conversion for < R850 incl delivery.
Cells are 3.2v 6Ah LiFePo4 Lithium Ion Phosphate 32700 Battery Cell - Type A
BMS is a 24v 20amp discharge, 10amp charge on ... and it is small. Sjoe.

I cannot adjust any voltages on the APC so I hope the BMS will sort the details. Seems to be working.

It is not a 100% perfect solution, if the batts are drained there is no warning, the BMS just switches the batts off.
It also switched off during bulk charging ... no idea why, will monitor that.
And the cells and BMS did heat up a wee bit under the APC Runtime Calibration test. So there was that too.

But it is still cheaper than 4 x 12v 7ah batts, maybe it outlasts the UPS, I only need a few minutes of runtime ... and it is fun.

Next one will be a 12v little bank ... to replace the 9ah 12v battery in my portable solar system, one of those lights and cellphone charger ones, with a 10w panel. Because I can.