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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Mypro-D View Post
    Oh Dear

    I picked up a BN 104 this morning from Takealot.

    That is disappointing.
    Why is it disappointing?
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  2. #42
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by oradba69 View Post
    Why is it disappointing?
    Because it is being replaced with something better.
    It wasn't on the market for very long.

    As above, it going to be replaced with a 108AH unit.
    Was contemplating going that route but wanted the Bluetooth connectivity.

    PS: I know 4AH is not really an issue. Had I known I probably would have waited till their new one came out.
    Last edited by Mypro-D; 2020/09/10 at 07:37 PM. Reason: PS

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Mypro-D View Post
    Because it is being replaced with something better.
    It wasn't on the market for very long.

    As above, it going to be replaced with a 108AH unit.
    Was contemplating going that route but wanted the Bluetooth connectivity.
    Hmmm dont think 4ah is something to lose sleep about. As I understand it the 108 will have the same BT capabilities now so the only thing you lose is the 4ah.
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  4. #44
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by oradba69 View Post
    Hmmm dont think 4ah is something to lose sleep about. As I understand it the 108 will have the same BT capabilities now so the only thing you lose is the 4ah.
    I do agree

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Mypro-D View Post
    Oh Dear

    I picked up a BN 104 this morning from Takealot.

    That is disappointing.
    Return it ... TAL allows that.
    Political Correctness
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional illogical minority, rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd ... by the clean end!

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    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by TRON View Post
    That's an extremely good price for an extremely good LiFePO4!
    If I may ask, what was that price ? It is gone now.
    Discovery 1 1995 V8i 3.9l (Sold, owned for 20 years); Freelander 2 2013 SD4 SE; Discovery 4 2014 SDV6 SE; Bushlapa Boskriek


  7. #47
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Please can someone out there assist this technoidiot with his understanding. Once I get back to Southern Africa I will almost certainly need to replace my batteries in my Bush Lapa and I want to go lithium. From what I understand there area number of different types of Lithium, the most commonly spoken about are Lithium Iron and Lithium Ion. As I understand it the Lithium Iron also contains phosphate and commonly referred to as LiFePO4, these appear to be the version used for camping rather than the Lithium Ion which are used in cell phones and other devices. My assumption is gathered from having read various debates and is also seen in the attached website

    https://www.evergen.com.au/batteryte...20high%20rate.

    I thought I had it clear in my head. However now when I look at the adverts on lithiumbatteriessa.co.za website such as the attached they are advertising Lithium Ion batteries as LiFePO4.

    https://lithiumbatteriessa.co.za/col...sphate-diy-kit

    Is this just careless advertising and a spelling error or have I got it wrong? I assume someone selling batteries must know that there is a world of difference between Lithium Ion and Lithium Iron. What am I missing?
    John 2014 Toyota Hilux 4x4 3.0 D4D
    Baobab BL1715 "Kamba"
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  8. #48
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by TRON View Post
    They also have a 13V 154kW Mini HP battery (with Yittrium fortified cathodes) available which is in robust case with a complete BMS included plus local and remote monitoring for firmware updates. Useable capacity 2,000Wh. Weighs in at 25kg and dimensions are 410 x 290 x 300mm (W x D x H) thus it is not suitable as a "drop in" battery. Price is about 50% more that the current 104/108 models thus the cost per kW is slightly higher for the 154HP battery. I attach a spec sheet for information.

    If I was in the market for batteries (I have 2X108's installed in my Companion) that don't have to be drop in's and the space then I would go for a single 154kW Mini HP instead of my current set-up.
    If I was in SA now, instead of sitting waiting in Australia, I would certainly look very closely at the BN13V-154-2k Mini that Tron mentions. These are currently on a special at sustainable.co.za for R14,725 about R4,000 cheaper than I have seen them elsewhere.

    https://www.sustainable.co.za/blueno...4-battery.html

    I would try and reorganize my drop-in to make certain these fit.
    John 2014 Toyota Hilux 4x4 3.0 D4D
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  9. #49
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Tedx2 View Post

    I thought I had it clear in my head. However now when I look at the adverts on lithiumbatteriessa.co.za website such as the attached they are advertising Lithium Ion batteries as LiFePO4.

    https://lithiumbatteriessa.co.za/col...sphate-diy-kit

    Is this just careless advertising and a spelling error or have I got it wrong? I assume someone selling batteries must know that there is a world of difference between Lithium Ion and Lithium Iron. What am I missing?
    To me it seems the cells being sold are LiFePO4 and fail to see any problem. They look similar to the cells that Will Prowse have been posting videos on youtube on his channel.

    Not sure what is termed "CARELESS ADVERTISING"

    The current offer of R5000 for 120Ah including BMS seems a superb deal.
    Last edited by ekkekan; 2020/09/12 at 08:18 AM.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Mypro-D View Post
    Because it is being replaced with something better.
    It wasn't on the market for very long.

    As above, it going to be replaced with a 108AH unit.
    Was contemplating going that route but wanted the Bluetooth connectivity.

    PS: I know 4AH is not really an issue. Had I known I probably would have waited till their new one came out.

    return it
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  11. #51
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by ekkekan View Post
    To me it seems the cells being sold are LiFePO4 and fail to see any problem. They look similar to the cells that Will Prowse have been posting videos on youtube on his channel.

    Not sure what is termed "CARELESS ADVERTISING"

    The current offer of R5000 for 120Ah including BMS seems a superb deal.
    The problem is that their advert reads "LiFePO4 Lithium Ion". My understanding is that this is not possible. "IF" I am correct, and I'm not certain I am, it is impossible to have a LiFePO4 Lithium Ion, I believe it should be "LiFePO4 Lithium Iron". The spelling of Ion vs Iron makes a difference to what you are buying.

    I agree 100% that if these are Lithium Iron that price is very good and a great deal.
    John 2014 Toyota Hilux 4x4 3.0 D4D
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  12. #52
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Those are 2nd life batteries.
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  13. #53
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Jola View Post
    If I may ask, what was that price ? It is gone now.
    If I remember correctly R8,200

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  15. #54
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Tedx2 View Post

    I agree 100% that if these are Lithium Iron that price is very good and a great deal.
    OK. But if you had to google the very same cells you will find they are sold across the world and are indeed LiFePO4 and not Li-Iron. Thats why I feel he calls them by what they are.

    Also a number of guys here have bought them and I am sure they will give the REAL CORRECT answer.

    The current price from LithiumbatteriesSA is as quoted at R5000 for 120Ah.
    Last edited by ekkekan; 2020/09/12 at 11:59 AM.

  16. #55
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by bfreesani View Post
    Those are 2nd life batteries.
    Is that true ?

    WRT https://lithiumbatteriessa.co.za/col...sphate-diy-kit
    Discovery 1 1995 V8i 3.9l (Sold, owned for 20 years); Freelander 2 2013 SD4 SE; Discovery 4 2014 SDV6 SE; Bushlapa Boskriek


  17. #56
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    As i have it
    LifePO4 relates to the chemical composition of the battery, from the periodic table
    Li = Lithium
    Fe= Iron
    P = phosphorous
    O= oxygen
    4 = refers to 4 oxygen molecules

    Lithium Ion

    Lithium is obviously Lithium whereas the ion reference relates to the Lithium having a different number of atom/molecules , in this case I think less

  18. #57
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Tedx2 View Post
    Please can someone out there assist this technoidiot with his understanding. Once I get back to Southern Africa I will almost certainly need to replace my batteries in my Bush Lapa and I want to go lithium. From what I understand there area number of different types of Lithium, the most commonly spoken about are Lithium Iron and Lithium Ion. As I understand it the Lithium Iron also contains phosphate and commonly referred to as LiFePO4, these appear to be the version used for camping rather than the Lithium Ion which are used in cell phones and other devices. My assumption is gathered from having read various debates and is also seen in the attached website

    https://www.evergen.com.au/batteryte...20high%20rate.

    I thought I had it clear in my head. However now when I look at the adverts on lithiumbatteriessa.co.za website such as the attached they are advertising Lithium Ion batteries as LiFePO4.

    https://lithiumbatteriessa.co.za/col...sphate-diy-kit

    Is this just careless advertising and a spelling error or have I got it wrong? I assume someone selling batteries must know that there is a world of difference between Lithium Ion and Lithium Iron. What am I missing?

    The sells you talking about is LifeYPO4. Here is a bit more info:
    ThunderSky Winston produce High Power LiFeYPO4 (Lithium Iron Phosphate - LFP) cells since 1998. As the only LFP producer, Winston incorporate Yttrium to enhance the cell temperature flexibility as well as performance overall.

    This the cells that Bluenova and Victron use in there battery units. They abit more expensive the LifePO4 cells but both use the same chemistry and safe.

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  20. #58
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Jola View Post
    They got 2nd life's that I'm using and then there is brand new one's up for sale. They call them A grade.

    The second life batteries was in there first life 150ah. They use till a certain SOC and then remove and replace. Capacity test is then done and then send. So far my 120ah 2nd life tested at 140ah and they running like soet stroop. One pack is running already 7 months and used everyday.

    Revov sells 2nd life battery units to. They come from BYD where been use in EV buses. They use for certain amount of cycles then taken out and tested and sell to solar market.

    Same with Nissan Leaf batteries.

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  22. #59
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by ekkekan View Post
    To me it seems the cells being sold are LiFePO4 and fail to see any problem. They look similar to the cells that Will Prowse have been posting videos on youtube on his channel.

    Not sure what is termed "CARELESS ADVERTISING"

    The current offer of R5000 for 120Ah including BMS seems a superb deal.
    Yes, good deal, then build boxes like I did and you have yourself a very lekker lifepo4 battery pack. Works superbly.

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  24. #60
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    1. The D250SA was not designed for Lithium charging therefore the updated model S250SE
    2. Blue Nova is a local developed Lithium battery I doubt it if it is on par with the accepted International Certification specifications required for various uses. The ENERTEC Lithium does comply.
    3. In this case bigger is better when looking at lead acid batteries. You can upgrade to Discover AGM that is a lot tougher than the standard flooded lead acid battery.(remember that the Discover you can take down to 20% vs the 50% of the flooded lead acid before it gets hurt)
    4. Safety of 30kg strapped down is a lot safer than a rooftop tent for instance.
    5. Battery lifespan- an AGM dry cell battery last x 3 times longer than the flooded lead acid battery in leisure application. A lithium battery last x 3 times longer than AGM battery, therefore x 6 times longer than a flooded battery.


    See attached article on batteries placed in 4x4 Magazine it puts it in perspective.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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