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  1. #281
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by RossJ View Post
    Dungbeetle
    .....................nee boet
    i had a higher bar set for you
    OK RossJ I just noticed this:

    Thus far I have received thanks from forum members for 78.8% of my posts

    You have been thanked for 5.6% of your posts.....
    Last edited by Dungbeetle; 2021/04/19 at 12:51 PM.
    Donít blame yourself over past mistakes. Itís like driving down the N1 while looking in the rear view mirror only.

    2000 Patrol GU 4.2D(onkey) "old-timer" chugging along towards 900 000 km.
    2014 Patrol GU 3.0CRD "teenager" in puberty - 126 000 km
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    2012 NP300 YD2.5 D/C 2x4 High Rider "platkar" - 125 000 km

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  3. #282
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by RossJ View Post
    Dungbeetle

    a long rambling post

    i assume you have empherical data to backup your fairly wild claims regarding the bms involved

    either understand a bms or stick to your ford thingy

    nee boet
    i had a higher bar set for you
    I'm pretty off-base and tongue in cheek with a lot of my posts. I know that there are various forumites who probably despise me. However, your comment is rude and totally uncalled for. :|

    Quote Originally Posted by Dungbeetle View Post
    OK RossJ I just noticed this:

    Thus far I have received thanks from forum members for 78.8% of my posts

    You have been thanked for 5.6% of your posts.....
    Ignore him. It is fairly obvious Mr. Jones is trying to troll you.
    Last edited by iandvl; 2021/04/19 at 01:12 PM.
    Ian de Villiers
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  5. #283
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by TRON View Post
    Can anyone advise on a simple Voltage adjustable charger (and a supplier). I have a Moto-quip simple 6V/12V charger (not adjustable) but the 12V output at 17V is too high and a no-no for LiFePO batteries.
    The Victron 5A as suggested is a good unit. But to charge a LiFePO4 battery at 5A will take forever.

    But what Iím looking for something that will not interfere with the LiFePO4ís BMS, and you can adjust the charge V manually and not a Smart unit. BT is also not necessary.

  6. #284
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by Dungbeetle View Post
    OK RossJ I just noticed this:

    Thus far I have received thanks from forum members for 78.8% of my posts

    You have been thanked for 5.6% of your posts.....
    @dungbeetle; thank you for your posts. I have found them immensely helpful.

    Regards,

    Grant
    SUV: 2014 BMW X3 2.0d :-) (not a real 4x4 etc I know... but man does it drive lekker)

    4X4: 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee 3.0 CRD Overland

    Jurgens XT 65B with Howling Moon TTT

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  8. #285
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by TRON View Post
    The Victron 5A as suggested is a good unit. But to charge a LiFePO4 battery at 5A will take forever.

    But what Iím looking for something that will not interfere with the LiFePO4ís BMS, and you can adjust the charge V manually and not a Smart unit. BT is also not necessary.
    These with a adjustment at the far right should work well if adjusted to about 14.2V AFAIK

    https://www.securityandmore.co.za/pr...smart_campaign

  9. #286
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by TRON View Post
    The Victron 5A as suggested is a good unit. But to charge a LiFePO4 battery at 5A will take forever.

    But what Iím looking for something that will not interfere with the LiFePO4ís BMS, and you can adjust the charge V manually and not a Smart unit. BT is also not necessary.
    Good point. You get bigger Victron chargers.

    What I've learnt, actively doing, is to adjust the charge volts on the charger, you need quick and easy access for that. Victron has got that.

    3.45v per cell will never interfere with the BMS.
    What DOES interfere is if a cell "jumps out".
    To sort that you need a BMS that you can see each cell voltages, or at LEAST Min/Max cell voltages.

    Pic 1 on is on the Victron Venus.
    Pic 2 is the Bluetooth software on my phone.
    Pic 3 the new Venus feature, to simply and easily override any settings fast.
    Note: Pics not taken at the same time, illustration only of what I see.
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    Political Correctness
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    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

  10. #287
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    I am considering changing from lead acid to LiFePO4 - mine has recently done it's last trip and is not holding charge.

    From a suggestion on another thread I am looking at a VICTRON BLUE SMART IP65 CHARGER Ė WITH BLUETOOTH

    I will probably look at a 120Ah LiFePO4 battery - so which Victron out of the range is suitable ? (12V: 4/5/7/10/15/25A)

    The battery I am looking at is one of the kits offered by lithiumbatteriessa.co.za

    This is for a camping setup, not home use. Will also be charged with a DC - DC unit plus solar while travelling.
    I just like to use AC when it is available, so the Victron would be permanently mounted in my vehicle.

    Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
    Safe Diving - Andy

    2013 Isuzu KB6 300 DC 4X4

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrews_underwater_images/


  11. #288
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyT View Post
    I am considering changing from lead acid to LiFePO4 - mine has recently done it's last trip and is not holding charge.

    From a suggestion on another thread I am looking at a VICTRON BLUE SMART IP65 CHARGER – WITH BLUETOOTH

    I will probably look at a 120Ah LiFePO4 battery - so which Victron out of the range is suitable ? (12V: 4/5/7/10/15/25A)

    The battery I am looking at is one of the kits offered by lithiumbatteriessa.co.za

    This is for a camping setup, not home use. Will also be charged with a DC - DC unit plus solar while travelling.
    I just like to use AC when it is available, so the Victron would be permanently mounted in my vehicle.

    Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
    You must look at what max current the battery can be charged at, that is the limiting factor, I think their 12v battery pack cells are rated at 1C charge and discharge, meaning, 120 Amps, so any of those should do, now it depends on how fast you want the batteries to be charged VS budget, ie higher amp charger=$$

    In my situation I would pick a smaller amp rated charger as I'll most probably charge them when having AC at home and my next camping trip is only going to be in a weeks time, battery can charge slowly, no haste...

    Also, lower charge and discharge amps gives you longer life out of a lithium battery, assuming that it is not seeing high ambient temps.

    If you're new to lithium batteries, I would suggest watching this guy's YouTube videos, he explains very well https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCoj6RxIAQq8kmJme-5dnN0Q
    Last edited by WantOnsKan; 2021/04/19 at 08:18 PM. Reason: Added link

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  13. #289
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyT View Post
    I am considering changing from lead acid to LiFePO4 - mine has recently done it's last trip and is not holding charge.

    From a suggestion on another thread I am looking at a VICTRON BLUE SMART IP65 CHARGER Ė WITH BLUETOOTH

    I will probably look at a 120Ah LiFePO4 battery - so which Victron out of the range is suitable ? (12V: 4/5/7/10/15/25A)

    The battery I am looking at is one of the kits offered by lithiumbatteriessa.co.za

    This is for a camping setup, not home use. Will also be charged with a DC - DC unit plus solar while travelling.
    I just like to use AC when it is available, so the Victron would be permanently mounted in my vehicle.

    Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
    The lithiumbatteriessa.co.za kits are awesome except for the BMS it is not the greatest in an overlanding set up because it lacks Bluetooth which is becomes your lifeline as you switch supply from to different charging sources.

    So here's my setup
    BMS - https://e-glow.co.za/jbd-smart-bms-4...html?cat=79506
    Battery Balancer - https://e-glow.co.za/active-equalize...html?cat=79506
    Cells - I went second life 120ah as capacity was more important than cycles https://lithiumbatteriessa.co.za/pro...31983589359706
    Ac-dc Charger - https://sunstore.co.za/products/vict...33080571428898
    DC-DC Charger https://sunstore.co.za/products/vict...8aAk6vEALw_wcB
    Solar Charger - https://wrnd.co.za/index.php?route=p...&product_id=57
    Solar Panel - 130watt monocrystalline

    Having just returned from a typical overlanding trip in the Kgalagadi and using roughly 17-24 ah between sunset to sunrise, we were on the road from 9h00 and 14h00. We were fully charged 2.5 hours into the drive with the fridge connected and the Solar charger maintained the charge to sunset. The PWM is rough and ready and sends the battery whatever it could take but I found the BMS stop the charging process quite often when the cells inevitably become unbalanced in this phase of charging. As Dungbeetle suggested this was sorted out the next day during the float charge of the Victron Dc to Dc charge phase of roughly 2.5 hours.

    If I had to point out a weakness in my system it would be the PWM solar charger when you have an extended stay where this was the primary charger and the float phase would be missed and the cell balancing would be less effective. I would consider a better quality MPPT charger that has a float charge function to allow the cell balancing to be as efficient as possible. As a point of reference I use the Ip65 when I got home and the cell balancing was sorted with an overnight charge.

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  15. #290
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by River Rat View Post
    The lithiumbatteriessa.co.za kits are awesome except for the BMS it is not the greatest in an overlanding set up because it lacks Bluetooth which is becomes your lifeline as you switch supply from to different charging sources.

    So here's my setup
    BMS - https://e-glow.co.za/jbd-smart-bms-4...html?cat=79506
    Battery Balancer - https://e-glow.co.za/active-equalize...html?cat=79506
    Cells - I went second life 120ah as capacity was more important than cycles https://lithiumbatteriessa.co.za/pro...31983589359706
    Ac-dc Charger - https://sunstore.co.za/products/vict...33080571428898
    DC-DC Charger https://sunstore.co.za/products/vict...8aAk6vEALw_wcB
    Solar Charger - https://wrnd.co.za/index.php?route=p...&product_id=57
    Solar Panel - 130watt monocrystalline

    Having just returned from a typical overlanding trip in the Kgalagadi and using roughly 17-24 ah between sunset to sunrise, we were on the road from 9h00 and 14h00. We were fully charged 2.5 hours into the drive with the fridge connected and the Solar charger maintained the charge to sunset. The PWM is rough and ready and sends the battery whatever it could take but I found the BMS stop the charging process quite often when the cells inevitably become unbalanced in this phase of charging. As Dungbeetle suggested this was sorted out the next day during the float charge of the Victron Dc to Dc charge phase of roughly 2.5 hours.

    If I had to point out a weakness in my system it would be the PWM solar charger when you have an extended stay where this was the primary charger and the float phase would be missed and the cell balancing would be less effective. I would consider a better quality MPPT charger that has a float charge function to allow the cell balancing to be as efficient as possible. As a point of reference I use the Ip65 when I got home and the cell balancing was sorted with an overnight charge.
    I saw the 4s 60A Daly BMS (lithiumbatteriessa.co.za also uses Daly BMS) on banggood does have an option for Bluetooth, and pricing looks good, about R800 shipping incl, I'm planning on getting one.

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  17. #291
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyT View Post
    I am considering changing from lead acid to LiFePO4 - mine has recently done it's last trip and is not holding charge.

    From a suggestion on another thread I am looking at a VICTRON BLUE SMART IP65 CHARGER Ė WITH BLUETOOTH

    I will probably look at a 120Ah LiFePO4 battery - so which Victron out of the range is suitable ? (12V: 4/5/7/10/15/25A)

    The battery I am looking at is one of the kits offered by lithiumbatteriessa.co.za

    This is for a camping setup, not home use. Will also be charged with a DC - DC unit plus solar while travelling.
    I just like to use AC when it is available, so the Victron would be permanently mounted in my vehicle.

    Your advice would be greatly appreciated.

    just get a 200ah with victron charger and you will be ecstatic. KISS
    Bruce Hunter
    "your signature should not be used to judge you or your opinions"

  18. #292
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by River Rat View Post
    The lithiumbatteriessa.co.za kits are awesome except for the BMS it is not the greatest in an overlanding set up because it lacks Bluetooth which is becomes your lifeline as you switch supply from to different charging sources.

    Having just returned from a typical overlanding trip in the Kgalagadi and using roughly 17-24 ah between sunset to sunrise, we were on the road from 9h00 and 14h00. We were fully charged 2.5 hours into the drive with the fridge connected and the Solar charger maintained the charge to sunset. The PWM is rough and ready and sends the battery whatever it could take but I found the BMS stop the charging process quite often when the cells inevitably become unbalanced in this phase of charging. As Dungbeetle suggested this was sorted out the next day during the float charge of the Victron Dc to Dc charge phase of roughly 2.5 hours.

    If I had to point out a weakness in my system it would be the PWM solar charger when you have an extended stay where this was the primary charger and the float phase would be missed and the cell balancing would be less effective. I would consider a better quality MPPT charger that has a float charge function to allow the cell balancing to be as efficient as possible. As a point of reference I use the Ip65 when I got home and the cell balancing was sorted with an overnight charge.
    Thanks for the comprehensive response, much appreciated.
    Also to @WantOnsKan - thanks.

    Coincidentally I have also just returned from a Kgalagadi trip (Botswana side, we left the park on 10 April ).

    We had 8 days of no AC power so had to rely on the alternator and solar power.
    This is typical of the sort of trip that we undertake.
    Given that we has 2 days of no / minimum sun and I only have a 120w solar panel my dying battery was kaput early in the evening.
    Game drives were not so awesome with the long green grass, so we skipped a few days too - most notably those when we had rain .......... 2 consecutive days.

    Your set up looks great, pretty much what I was aiming at so I will certainly be taking your advice to heart.
    I did not know about the battery balancer, so something new for me to look at.
    I do plan on increasing my solar capacity - if my new rooftop tent works out I can hopefully go to 3 x 120w panels.

    Pity Victron do not make (a far as I know) a DC-DC charger with solar input.

    Thanks again for the very useful response.
    Safe Diving - Andy

    2013 Isuzu KB6 300 DC 4X4

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrews_underwater_images/


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  20. #293
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyT View Post
    Pity Victron do not make (a far as I know) a DC-DC charger with solar input.
    Maybe this will help: https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters

    https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-...orion-tr-smart

    Titbit for general sharing: I know of guys who use a 75/15 MPPT connected to a 48v bank to charge a 12/24v battery bank.
    Even using said little MPPT to power 12/24v devices like say a 12v Rpi.
    Last edited by the_terrible_triplett; 2021/04/19 at 11:09 PM.
    Political Correctness
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional illogical minority, rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd ... by the clean end!

    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

  21. #294
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    Maybe this will help: https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-converters

    https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-...orion-tr-smart

    Titbit for general sharing: I know of guys who use a 75/15 MPPT connected to a 48v bank to charge a 12/24v battery bank.
    Even using said little MPPT to power 12/24v devices like say a 12v Rpi.
    Hi, thanks for the response.

    I was looking for a Victron equivalent to the CTEK 250 Dual or Nat Luna DC-DC 40A Dual or similar.

    The Victron stuff looks awesome, I just could not see where they offered a dual input DC - DC charger.
    Safe Diving - Andy

    2013 Isuzu KB6 300 DC 4X4

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrews_underwater_images/


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  23. #295
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyT View Post
    Hi, thanks for the response.

    I was looking for a Victron equivalent to the CTEK 250 Dual or Nat Luna DC-DC 40A Dual or similar.

    The Victron stuff looks awesome, I just could not see where they offered a dual input DC - DC charger.
    I was on the same page with regards to having a combined solar and DC charger until my WRND died on my Namaqua trip, so without AC I was out of options. I won't consider a combined unit again and at R450 I carry a spare PWM solar charger just in case.

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  25. #296
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyT View Post
    Hi, thanks for the response.

    I was looking for a Victron equivalent to the CTEK 250 Dual or Nat Luna DC-DC 40A Dual or similar.

    The Victron stuff looks awesome, I just could not see where they offered a dual input DC - DC charger.
    In my previous van we had the CTek 250 hooked up to 200Ah lead Crystals, worked a treat and never ever had an issue. New van, and knowing how the duals worked and performed, I purchased a NL40-40. Worked OK in KNP, but just could not get it to do what I thought it should. Sold it and changed to Victron. Victron does not have a single unit but different units doing the same. Now running an Orion 12/30, MPPT 100/50 and a 12/30 Blue smart to take care of the AC.

    Takes up more space, but in the long run think it will be worth the change.

    What I like about this setup is the fact that I can set it to the T, and I can check everything from either my phone or IPad. And I think, a big part of going this direction is the monitoring and adjustability that can be achieved in the field.
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    Last edited by Rooikop; 2021/04/20 at 08:47 AM.
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
    - Leonardo Da Vinci
    Also on

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  27. #297
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    An idea to consider is a AC charger and inverter all in one. For example:
    MultiPlus 12v/500VA/20A
    MultiPlus 12v/800VA/35A
    MultiPlus 12v/1200VA/50A
    MultiPlus 12v/1600VA/70a

    They are portable so can be used for camping, vehicle power and at home as a UPS.
    Political Correctness
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional illogical minority, rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd ... by the clean end!

    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

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  29. #298
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Another idea which not many are using where one can get support would be the 1kw Axpert. Included is a PWM or MPPT controller and a peak output of 2kVA. 20A AC charger and can work with panels from 17V to 80V with 102Voc. Panels up to 500W can be connected.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  30. #299
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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by ekkekan View Post
    Another idea which not many are using where one can get support would be the 1kw Axpert. Included is a PWM or MPPT controller and a peak output of 2kVA. 20A AC charger and can work with panels from 17V to 80V with 102Voc. Panels up to 500W can be connected.
    My setup is simple, a 270w panel, Victron mppt 75/15, Victron 15A 220v BT - never been used, and a 200ah Lifepo4. This battery is unbelievably good and needs minimal charging. I have camped under a tree with mainly shade for 3 days and this battery never dropped below 90% SOC. I was running a NL 90l and a Dometic 50l. By 9am it was fully charged again. No electricity used at all as it was a bush camp. I do carry a spare mppt, external panel and a BN 82ah battery for emergency.
    Bruce Hunter
    "your signature should not be used to judge you or your opinions"

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    Default Re: Lithium vs Lead Acid

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceHun View Post
    My setup is simple, a 270w panel, Victron mppt 75/15, Victron 15A 220v BT - never been used, and a 200ah Lifepo4. This battery is unbelievably good and needs minimal charging. I have camped under a tree with mainly shade for 3 days and this battery never dropped below 90% SOC. I was running a NL 90l and a Dometic 50l. By 9am it was fully charged again. No electricity used at all as it was a bush camp. I do carry a spare mppt, external panel and a BN 82ah battery for emergency.
    BruceHun

    Hi. Please advise which 200ah Lifepo4 battery you are using. I am setting up a similar system thinking about a Blue Nova 200ah with Flexopower's Mojave 240w Foldable panel. I was looking at using a Vectron 100/30 controller but this might be overkill from what you are saying.

    Regards Gavin
    2015 Discovery 4 30 SDV6 SE
    2007 Defender 90 Puma 2.4
    Bush Lapa Baobab 2470
    Previous
    Metalian Off Road Trailer
    2010 Discovery 4 30 TDV6 SE
    Discovery 3 V6 S
    Discovery 2 TD5
    Defender 90 TDI
    Defender 110 V8 Hard Top
    Jurgens Xplorer

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