Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please





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  1. #1
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    Default Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    Gentlemen, and ladies,

    Some advice please. At this stage we want to keep names out of the issue, as you will understand, so I will be a little vague.

    My son in Pretoria needed a vehicle to go down to the Cape when his work resumed, back when the lockdownmoved down a notch. He finds a good vehicle, rushes through the purchase without bargaining the price down, gets it registered, drives down, back up a week later, very happy. But a small handling niggle. Drives down again, and the niggle becomes a little bigger. He talks to the dealer in George, does research, and consensus is that an important part in the transmission is giving up. Vehicle is sold with normal sales contract, insurance covers all mechanical issues. He heeds wheels, arranges with dealers in George. They replace the part for some R 12 000. (Sounds like a bargain to me.) Insurance refuses to pay as they say it was a pre-existing condition. Seller in Pretoria says they should have been given the option to repair it, it might have been something small. Costs of bringing the vehicle to Pretoria on a rollback to replace something small would have been more, and driving would have risked the whole drivetrain. Dealers in Georg is sure the replaced part was the culprit.

    So now he is being sent from pillar to post.

    It seems to me his options are:

    Name and shame on this and similar forums,
    Lawyer's letter, adding legal fees to what they owe,
    HelloPeter,
    Motor Industry Federation,
    Consumer Council,
    Consumer pages in newspapers.

    Any suggestions would be very welcome.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    Did he speak with the seller in pta before the dealer in George carried out the repairs?
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    Default Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    I don't understand. Handling niggle in the transmission? George is far from Cape Town? 6000Km? Think you can give some more detail, what was replaced?
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    Default Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    If your son autherised the repairs without notifying selling dealer, then I'd say he's on his own?

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    Default Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    Quote Originally Posted by sparewheel View Post
    If your son autherised the repairs without notifying selling dealer, then I'd say he's on his own?
    If that was the case I would agree.

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    Default Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    Unfortunately your son must have spoken to the selling dealer right from the beginning and the selling dealer must have given the go ahead to do repairs at another dealer.
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    Default Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    Quote Originally Posted by ZuluCowboy View Post
    I don't understand. Handling niggle in the transmission? George is far from Cape Town? 6000Km? Think you can give some more detail, what was replaced?
    Lets not exaggerate too much ................... George is 425 km from Cape Town central, not 6000 km!!
    Last edited by SamM; 2020/08/13 at 06:55 AM.
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    Default Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    Unfortunately, the rush to get it fixed was the problem. If I understand the process that was followed correctly, the repair was done under the mechanical insurance and then the selling dealer didn't have to be consulted. I also assume there was no pre-authorization obtained from the insurer, who subsequently refused to pay when authorization was seeked. The selling dealer was then asked to pay, which I think will not happen. I also think it isn't reasonable to expect of them to pay after the fact.
    I agree with the previous posts, I think your son is on his own with this one. It hurts, I know.

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    Default Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    As a business owner, I might be inclined to contribute to the cost as a gesture of good will - but out of a marketing and word of mouth support exercise - not out of obligation... but it’s not my business...

    As a business owner I’d also be pretty upset if (and this has not happened here) I was named and shamed for not contributing, if the facts as outlined speculatively above are true.

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    Cool Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    Thanks dad.

    If i may jump in here, thank you for the replies so far.

    Its my vehicle and here is the time line.

    I work in the middle of the karoo. I work and live 30km outside of the nearest town. The nearest civilisation is george with cape town a close second. Internet and communication is....... challenging.

    I purchased the vehicle on friday, it was delivered on monday. The vehicle was serviced by the sellers preferred ( not agent) service centre. RMI registered and stamped in the book.

    I left for work on tuesday morning at 3 am.
    When i filled up in bloemfontein i noticed a slight judder when turnig sharp to exit the garage. No further issues till i pulled in at work / home. There i noticed the judder again.
    I wrote it off as being the live front axle, it being an all wheel drive monster.

    Fast forward 2 weeks. I had to drive to george for several reasons and took the car to the financing agent ( important but i will get back to it). They looked at a small niggle and it was sorted. Driving in town i noticed the judder again.
    I kept an eye out and noted that it is not there when the car is cold but any time i drive any distance it starts.
    Over the next month i noted the judder getting progressively worse till i put a question to the manufacturers forum.

    Everyone immediately told me that a component had failed and that it can damage the whole drivetrain.

    I contacted the dealer in george and they said i must claim from the warranty company.

    Up and down emails for 3 weeks. Eventually they say they want the vehicle inspected. There is an RMI workshop in town, they refuse to touch the vehicle, they dont have the tooling.

    I have one option. Take the day off, drive to george and get the agents to look at the vehicle and then drive home. Thats a 700km trip with a drivetrain that everyone warns me not to drive with........
    More emails. I spoke to the workshop manager at the agents and they are sure from my explanation that the component has failed.

    At this point the warranty tell me that based on the timeline of the failure it was a pre existing condition and they are not paying.

    At the same time the car is now juddering after a trip to town for food. This is an emergency.

    I arrange it so that i am in george at 8 to drop off the car and i pick up a company car for the trip back.
    When i turned off the road to the agency the rear wheels locked up so i believe i got the vehicle there just in time.
    I told them to find the problem and fix it.

    There were also 3 recall items that they needed to do so they did that and the repair was done by the end of the next week.
    I got a lift to george and picked up the car at 8 pm. I slept there and drove back the next morning.

    Over the swartberg pass. ( bucket list item&#128526 no more issues with the car at all.

    I contacted the dealer in george who then had a whole episode about appealing the warranty and so on. I eventually told them i am holding them responsible for the repair after another month of screwing me around.

    Here is the whole sordid tale.....
    The dealer in pretoria where i bought the car, finance the cars through the dealer in george. But..... this car was their own personal car that they sold.

    If i were to go full tilt on the name and shame and lawsuit i will have to go after the dealer in george who actually have nothing to do with the car.

    I need my money back, but what are my options?
    I am tempted to put the broken component back in the car and tell them to cancel the sale and come fetch the car. But then i sit with my finger where the sun dont shine.

    Advice appreciated, but this needs fixing soon..........🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

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    Default Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    Your best recourse via the CPA.
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    Default Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    Quote Originally Posted by SamM View Post
    Lets not exaggerate too much ................... George is 425 km from Cape Town central, not 6000 km!!
    Pretoria to George twice is 5000km, plus the 700km, close enough to 6000. You drove the car this distance knowing there was a fault.

    What vehicle is it?

    What Juddering?

    It is a bit vague.
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    Default Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    I agree with the Seller on this. Sorry, you should have followed due process....

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    Default Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    If it was a pre-existing condition, then the CPA is surely in play?
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    Default Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    If it was a pre-existing condition, then the CPA is surely in play?
    Sure, but only if the seller, and not the financier, had the opportunity to fix it themselves first.

    It sucks, but what should have happened was the new owner should have parked the car, and gotten the sellers to come and fetch it to have it repaired, and made it their problem from the get go. I have learned this lesson myself as well.

    I highly doubt CPA would be in his favor now, as the sellers will just claim that they were not given the opportunity to inspect and fix the car, and now they will also claim that should anything go wrong with the drivetrain further down the line, that they are not liable, as they could not guarantee the work that was done.

    In a nutshell, unfortunately, the OP's son is stuck with the bill, as he did not follow the correct procedure. A hard lesson to learn, but one that you will not soon forget.

    BTW, in my honest opinion, a seller in this case seems to mostly want to dodge a bullet, but you would be able to decide for yourself. I would not name and shame, as they are not fully at fault, same as I did not name and shame the guys who did it to me, but, I will never buy from them again, ever.

    LASTLY, when purchasing a second hand vehicle, ALWAYS, absolutely always, let them deal with any and all faults found on the vehicle within 6 months of purchasing.
    Last edited by lizardalpha; 2020/08/13 at 09:39 AM.
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  23. #16
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    Default Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    Quote Originally Posted by lizardalpha View Post
    Sure, but only if the seller, and not the financier, had the opportunity to fix it themselves first.

    It sucks, but what should have happened was the new owner should have parked the car, and gotten the sellers to come and fetch it to have it repaired, and made it their problem from the get go. I have learned this lesson myself as well.

    I highly doubt CPA would be in his favor now, as the sellers will just claim that they were not given the opportunity to inspect and fix the car, and now they will also claim that should anything go wrong with the drivetrain further down the line, that they are not liable, as they could not guarantee the work that was done.

    In a nutshell, unfortunately, the OP's son is stuck with the bill, as he did not follow the correct procedure. A hard lesson to learn, but one that you will not soon forget.

    BTW, in my honest opinion, a seller in this case seems to mostly want to dodge a bullet, but you would be able to decide for yourself. I would not name and shame, as they are not fully at fault, same as I did not name and shame the guys who did it to me, but, I will never buy from them again, ever.

    LASTLY, when purchasing a second hand vehicle, ALWAYS, absolutely always, let them deal with any and all faults found on the vehicle within 6 months of purchasing.
    Can i refit the old (stuffed) component and remove all the extra stuff i installed and tell the to come fetch the car and cancel the deal?.
    I am not in the mood to play the game. I need a vehicle for the trip to pretoria twice a month and must have ABSOLUTE reliability. What else will they now claim was not their problem?

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    Default Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexvanwyk View Post
    Can i refit the old (stuffed) component and remove all the extra stuff i installed and tell the to come fetch the car and cancel the deal?.
    I am not in the mood to play the game. I need a vehicle for the trip to pretoria twice a month and must have ABSOLUTE reliability. What else will they now claim was not their problem?
    No, you cannot. You have commissioned work on the car, and they are aware of this obviously by now. Again, I am sorry for you, but you are stuck now. Anyway, this is how I understand it.

    If the problem is sorted, and you have no other issues, then just keep the car?
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    Default Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    Right to Return Goods
    A consumer is entitled to return unsafe or defective goods, including goods that are not of a good quality. This right is enforceable for a period of six months, calculated from the date of the delivery of the goods to the consumer. Where the goods are so returned, the consumer does so without penalty and at the supplier’s risk and expense.
    If the goods are prematurely delivered to a consumer, the consumer may accept delivery or require delivery or performance at the agreed time and date. The consumer may also cancel the agreement without penalty and treat the delivered goods or services as “unsolicited goods or services.”

    The Issue of Strict Liability
    The CPA imposes strict liability on producers, importers, distributors or retailers for supplying unsafe goods. Strict liability is also imposed in respect of product failure, defective and hazardous goods. This liability shall also arise where a consumer is given inadequate instructions or warnings pertaining to any hazard that is likely to arise from the usage of the goods. Liability is said to be “strict” as a producer, importer, distributor or retailer shall be held liable irrespective of “whether the harm resulted from any negligence on the part of the producer, importer, distributor or retailer.” Such liability is joint and several and extends to suppliers of services whose rendering of services necessitates the application, supply, installation or provision of access to goods.

    https://www.bregmans.co.za/what-the-...-means-to-you/



    Motor cars are covered by the Consumer Protection Act and you are fully entitled to the full protection of the above Act.
    Your used car must be of good quality and usable for a reasonable time, there is no specific time mentioned but the car should have a six months warranty against defects.
    The consumer does have a right to request a refund if the vehicle is not of good quality or in a reasonable and drivable condition, keep in mind that you must have a good and legitimate reason to request a refund.

    http://www.saconsumercomplaints.co.za/about-us/: You can get a free opinion here, and detailed assistance on how to proceed.
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  27. #19
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    Default Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    Quote Originally Posted by Fabfender View Post
    Right to Return Goods
    A consumer is entitled to return unsafe or defective goods, including goods that are not of a good quality. This right is enforceable for a period of six months, calculated from the date of the delivery of the goods to the consumer. Where the goods are so returned, the consumer does so without penalty and at the supplier’s risk and expense.
    If the goods are prematurely delivered to a consumer, the consumer may accept delivery or require delivery or performance at the agreed time and date. The consumer may also cancel the agreement without penalty and treat the delivered goods or services as “unsolicited goods or services.”

    The Issue of Strict Liability
    The CPA imposes strict liability on producers, importers, distributors or retailers for supplying unsafe goods. Strict liability is also imposed in respect of product failure, defective and hazardous goods. This liability shall also arise where a consumer is given inadequate instructions or warnings pertaining to any hazard that is likely to arise from the usage of the goods. Liability is said to be “strict” as a producer, importer, distributor or retailer shall be held liable irrespective of “whether the harm resulted from any negligence on the part of the producer, importer, distributor or retailer.” Such liability is joint and several and extends to suppliers of services whose rendering of services necessitates the application, supply, installation or provision of access to goods.

    https://www.bregmans.co.za/what-the-...-means-to-you/



    Motor cars are covered by the Consumer Protection Act and you are fully entitled to the full protection of the above Act.
    Your used car must be of good quality and usable for a reasonable time, there is no specific time mentioned but the car should have a six months warranty against defects.
    The consumer does have a right to request a refund if the vehicle is not of good quality or in a reasonable and drivable condition, keep in mind that you must have a good and legitimate reason to request a refund.

    http://www.saconsumercomplaints.co.za/about-us/: You can get a free opinion here, and detailed assistance on how to proceed.
    Sure, but as per my explanation, the seller was not afforded the opportunity to fix the car, which will become a big argument in the CPA thing. He can try, but I strongly believe he will fail at this point in time.

    Also, people need to remember that the CPA is not a blanket 6 month warranty. There are limitations to it. This point has been discussed many times on this forum.
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  28. #20
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    Default Re: Sellers trying to duck out of obligations - advice please

    So, I have just had something similar.
    I bought a car, an opel, it gave engine management and went into limp mode after having it for a few weeks. I contacted dealer where car was from, they then sent me a loan car and collected the opel. A few weeks later they said all is sorted I can fetch it. I got the opel back and after a few weeks it again went into limp mode.
    The opel was going into limp mode only for a short period, when switching off and restarting most times the problem was gone and car drove perfect again.
    The dealer then had the car for another 2 weeks or so and told me there is no fault that they can find and must be due to the car being low on fuel (which got me mad as no car goes into limp mode for low fuel)
    At this point I told the dealer to rather return my car I traded in and cancel the deal.
    The dealer after a few times of me telling them to cancel deal agreed to reverse the deal.
    Deal 1 was, purchase for 89990 and trade in for 95000, load settlement balance onto opel as settlement was 127366
    Deal 2 was purchase my Honda back at 95000 and trade in opel at 89990 and load settlement balance onto Honda as settlement was 129127 now.
    I now have my Honda back and a new deal basically on my Honda.

    The dealer does have the right as per cpa to repair the car each and every time but, also you have to contact the dealer first as banks did not worry about anything about the deal at all and said it is all up to dealership.


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