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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Black market

    I also feel that in the current situation there's a difference between "black market" and "informal sector (for want of a better term)"

    "Black market" is buying a tv or bottle of booze that "fell off the back of a truck".
    "Informal sector" is buying smokes/booze/t-shirts from someone that is supplying a need that has come to be there through illogical, irrational and and plain stooopid decision making.

    However:

    When my tenant lost his job at the end of May, I was prepared to suspend payment of rent, electricity (from Escom) and water/services (from Municipality). These accounts are all in my name, so I carried on paying them.

    But:

    When he posted on the community WhatsApp group that as far as he's concerned paying R1500/week for a carton of smokes is still a bargain, I disconnected his water and electricity....
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  3. #42
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    Default Re: Black market

    If you call it Black Market or Informal Sector, all you are doing is supporting the increase in lawlessness and crime.

    I guarantee you that most of the booze and ciggies available on the street was looted or stolen.

    A licensed distributor or wholesaler won't easily risk the permission to trade by selling bootleg items that could be traced back to them.
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  4. #43
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    Default Re: Black market

    Quote Originally Posted by stephenplumb View Post
    I think it is high time to tell the corrupt thieving government exactly where to get off. I don't drink or smoke, but have no problem with those that do, indulging their habit. Sadly the current kleptocratic regime has lost any moral authority and the Taxi industry and Teachers union has shown that the only thing the government understands at this point is force.
    Maye we will get it right with these guys getting on the band wagon http://www.msn.com/en-za/news/nation...ed/ar-BB17Rjgi
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  6. #44
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    Default Re: Black market

    I buy, but not off the streets and I have my price limits.
    Recent reports in the media, Carte Blanche etc. have shown that BAT probably peddle their own cigarettes during these times, I'm of a very strong opinion that SAB and other liquor manufacturers does the same, never mind the smaller liquor stores.
    It's in pubs where the world's greatest ideas begin.

  7. #45
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    Default Re: Black market

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    If you call it Black Market or Informal Sector, all you are doing is supporting the increase in lawlessness and crime.

    I guarantee you that most of the booze and ciggies available on the street was looted or stolen.

    A licensed distributor or wholesaler won't easily risk the permission to trade by selling bootleg items that could be traced back to them.
    now you are just talking out of your arse or do you have any proof for the statement?

    Illegal ziggies were legally produced and "exported" before being sold locally - no way that volume was "looted or stolen"

    Booze is being sold by producers as a desperate means of generating income, I know of more than one craft brewer/distiller supplying product in unlabeled bottles for instance.
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  9. #46
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    Default Re: Black market

    Quote Originally Posted by mullerza View Post
    now you are just talking out of your arse or do you have any proof for the statement?

    Illegal ziggies were legally produced and "exported" before being sold locally - no way that volume was "looted or stolen"

    Booze is being sold by producers as a desperate means of generating income, I know of more than one craft brewer/distiller supplying product in unlabeled bottles for instance.
    Ja I dont know much about the smokes but I suspect at the quantities these funny brands are available it is very unlikely that is is looted stuff, and yes there are a few "distillers" small scale guys that put their booze in unlabeled bottles and sell them to try and eek out a living in this crazy times. Also there are a few pubs and restaurants that sell their stash of booze out the back door to at least try and survive and put food on their families tables.
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  10. #47
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    Default Re: Black market

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    If you call it Black Market or Informal Sector, all you are doing is supporting the increase in lawlessness and crime.

    I guarantee you that most of the booze and ciggies available on the street was looted or stolen.

    A licensed distributor or wholesaler won't easily risk the permission to trade by selling bootleg items that could be traced back to them.
    Feel free to back this up with proof.

    A number of wineries, craft beer manufacturers and also small retailers are doing what they can to survive.

    The big chain stores will most likely not, but most of them have huge other retail to keep them going.

    I see this in the same way as I see e-toll, senseless BS.

  11. #48
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    Default Re: Black market

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post

    I guarantee you that most of the booze and ciggies available on the street was looted or stolen.
    Don't agree with that. Some definately, but won't say most.

    I for instance know a guy I buy my Fat from (for when making Boerewors, DroŽwors, Venison mince, etc) that has a buddy with a Pub that is not allowed to trade. So he went and bought every single bottle of booze that the pub had in stock at a 50% markup, to help his friend (the pub owner) get some cash in. And now he is reselling that with a another 50% markup on his cost, to make himself a extra couple of bucks, as the cross border hunting ban has ground his business to almost standstill.

    So let say he bought 30 boxes of booze (what it looked like to me at a glance). Average Wholesale price per bottel on spirits, let say ave R150, so he bought it for R225 ea, and is selling it for R340 ea. His Pub owner friend made a quick R27k cash, and after he has re-sold it, he will have made himself a handy R34k cash.

    It is a win-win. And I'll bet most pub pwners have had to do something like this.

    I also know of quite a few bottle stores, and franchised ones at that, not just little no-name shops (including 2 Tops that I personally know of) that are selling boxes out the back door in the dark of night.
    Last edited by Brannas; 2020/08/12 at 11:44 AM.

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  13. #49
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    Default Re: Black market

    Quote Originally Posted by mullerza View Post
    now you are just talking out of your arse or do you have any proof for the statement?
    Nice, are you just picking a fight?

    Quote Originally Posted by mullerza View Post
    Illegal ziggies were legally produced and "exported" before being sold locally - no way that volume was "looted or stolen"
    Still illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by mullerza View Post
    Booze is being sold by producers as a desperate means of generating income, I know of more than one craft brewer/distiller supplying product in unlabeled bottles for instance.
    and I know of 20+ brewers that aren't, because they can't risk losing their license for the rest of their lives
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    Default Re: Black market

    Kobus

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    Default Re: Black market

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    Nice, are you just picking a fight?

    Still illegal.

    and I know of 20+ brewers that aren't, because they can't risk losing their license for the rest of their lives
    Maybe not the nicest comment I have ever made.

    You said looted or stolen, not illegal. There is a big difference between those terms

    But please do answer the question, do you actually have anything to back up your claim?
    Last edited by mullerza; 2020/08/12 at 11:59 AM.
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    Default Re: Black market

    Quote Originally Posted by mullerza View Post
    Maybe not the nicest comment I have ever made.

    But please do answer the question, do you actually have anything to back up your claim?
    I have several contacts in the area of Fox and Commissioner street in JHB that have confirmed.

    Remember that we aren't exposed to the underbelly of the black market.
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    Default Re: Black market

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    I have several contacts in the area of Fox and Commissioner street in JHB that have confirmed.

    Remember that we aren't exposed to the underbelly of the black market.
    Just consider the volume of trade in the black market for a moment

    now if its true that
    most of the booze and ciggies available on the street was looted or stolen
    , then we would be seeing a rampage of robberies the likes of which we have not seen before, and not liquor stores being robbed, but whole depot's being ransacked.

    I'm sure some of the trade is looted or stolen, but definitely not most.
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    Default Re: Black market

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    Default Re: Black market

    Quote Originally Posted by mullerza View Post
    Just consider the volume of trade in the black market for a moment

    now if its true that , then we would be seeing a rampage of robberies the likes of which we have not seen before, and not liquor stores being robbed, but whole depot's being ransacked.

    I'm sure some of the trade is looted or stolen, but definitely not most.
    Who is going to show you this? I think there is quite a large Media "blackout" happening in our country where many events are not publicly broadcasted.
    In my area we have received many videos and photo's of things that have happened. Something major that happened was the entire demolition of one of the major dirt oval track's in SA for landgrabbing. It only showed up in the Media about a week after it happened.

    How many other events are not published by the media?

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  21. #56
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    Default Re: Black market

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    Maye we will get it right with these guys getting on the band wagon http://www.msn.com/en-za/news/nation...ed/ar-BB17Rjgi
    Interesting development.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: Black market

    Quote Originally Posted by KobusDJ View Post
    I spent some of my misspent youth as a cigarette-rep - not for BAT, but for a company some on this FORUM might remember.

    That company eventually ended up in the brown and smelly stuff with SARS - amongs other things it was due to the fact that trucks carrying "export" cigarettes would (for a fee) be allowed to make a u-turn at certain border posts...
    Ettienne de Kock

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  23. #58
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    Default Re: Black market

    We can but hope. Maybe a genie will climb out of the kopdoek and deliver an almighty klap.

    But ja, I think a lot of rules are ignored by now and the economy is already much more 'open' than the rules allow for. If our esteemed government will just lift their snouts from the trough for a few hours, they will see and realize this.....
    Last edited by lekhubu943; 2020/08/12 at 12:28 PM.
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  24. #59
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    Default Re: Black market

    Quote Originally Posted by lekhubu943 View Post
    We can but hope. Maybe a genie will climb out of the kopdoek and deliver an almighty klap.

    But ja, I think a lot of rules are ignored by now and the economy is already much more 'open' than the rules allow for. If our esteemed government will just lift their snouts from the trough for a few hours, they will see and realize this.....
    Apart from the economy, crime is also rife. To a point where it is out of hand in our area. They just robbed the little family owned hardware down the road from me, shot the owner, still alive when the hopper fetched him. This is now weekly. every corner has people standing around ... walking the streets etc.

  25. #60
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    Default Re: Black market

    Quote Originally Posted by mullerza View Post

    now if its true that , then we would be seeing a rampage of robberies the likes of which we have not seen before, and not liquor stores being robbed, but whole depot's being ransacked.
    16 depots looted in the WC alone since start of this stuff up

    many many small bottle stores being looted in remote and poor areas
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