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  1. #21
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    Quote Originally Posted by heyyahhey View Post
    Whether heís American, Chinese, an Alien... facts are facts. The economy did continue to grow under Trump, largely on the back of rollbacks or regulation and a big tax cut, which my kids and their kids will pay for. That post simply shows a complete partisan hack.

    Iím mixed on his racism. I think itís pretty hard to quantify the statement that heís done more for blacks and Latinos than anyone else. He got 8% of the black vote in 16. Iím willing to bet he gets less in November. Thatís really what matters. Obama was a foreign policy disaster. I think Trump has in some ways been better. The US economy today is in the toilet, and the US is by far the worst in the world in COVID response. Best president since, and better than, Reagan? As another poster noted - when viewed thru the lens of time, Donald will be viewed as the worst president in US history, except for by his diehard fans, who cannot actually see thru the BS.
    I'm not an American or a Trump fan, but i do find it amusing that the left in America routinely complain about the tax cuts and the cost to future generations, while at the same time pushing for universal healthcare, open borders, writing off student debt and free tertiary education.

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Frikkie5000 View Post
    I'm not an American or a Trump fan, but i do find it amusing that the left in America routinely complain about the tax cuts and the cost to future generations, while at the same time pushing for universal healthcare, open borders, writing off student debt and free tertiary education.

    And what makes you come to that conclusion about me? More baseless assumptions?

    Do you realize that the US, before Obamacare, (and still) spends a larger percentage of GDP on health care than any other country on earth?

    what mainstream Democrat actually advocates for open borders? That is a trump propagated myth to stoke the xenophobia of his minions.

    Nonsense.
    Last edited by heyyahhey; 2020/07/10 at 08:57 PM.

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  5. #23
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    Default The Lincoln Project

    First off, i don't know what your political inclination is, but judging by your old lady clutching her pearls tipe reaction to neutral statements i would guess left(ish)

    Now, the following Dems have stated that they would seek the repeal of criminal penalties for people apprehended while crossing the border: Gillibrand, Harris, Sanders, Warren and Yang.

    I don't know how much more mainstream you want to get.

    Of course i know that the US spends the most (17.8% of GDP), it's common knowlege. If, however, you think that getting the government involved to bring that cost down you are beyond help. Governments don't save money. Ever.

    You really should stop assuming that people who differ from you politically are uninformed/stupid (ie lemmings)
    Last edited by Frikkie5000; 2020/07/10 at 09:27 PM.

  6. #24
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Frikkie5000 View Post
    First off, i don't know what your political inclination is, but judging by your old lady clutching her pearls tipe reaction to neutral statements i would guess left(ish)

    Now, the following Dems have stated that they would seek the repeal of criminal penalties for people apprehended while crossing the border: Gillibrand, Harris, Sanders, Warren and Yang.

    I don't know how much more mainstream you want to get.

    Of course i know that the US spends the most (17.8% of GDP), it's common knowlege. If, however, you think that getting the government involved to bring that cost down you are beyond help. Governments don't save money. Ever.

    You really should stop assuming that people who differ from you politically are uninformed/stupid (ie lemmings)
    You consider those mainstream? Incidentally - decriminalize does not equal “open borders”. Most “illegals” are in the US as a result of visa overstay. Walls don’t solve that. And overstay of a visa is not a criminal offense.

    I don’t assume others who have different political views are stupid. I think those who regurgitate Trump falsehoods, however, or make wantonly false statements, are.

    Your reply to my post was not “neutral” and it was directed at me - no reason to try and back away from that. It was also full of assumptions and inaccurate.

    Many developed countries (the vast majority actually) have socialized medicine. A number of them provide a higher overall standard or care than the US, and at lower cost. Other systems are terrible...
    Last edited by heyyahhey; 2020/07/10 at 09:50 PM.

  7. #25
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    If they all ran for the Democrat nomination then it would suggest that they are mainstream, not so?

    Incidentally, most of the above are also keen on healthcare for all illegal immigrants and a path to citizenship for all illegal immigrants.

    Free healthcare, minimal deportations and a path to citizenship for all illegal immigrants (lapsed visas included) really does incentivize illegal immigration. There really is no way around that.

    I agree with regards to people blindly defending Trump. My problem is that for some on the left, being conservative automatically makes you a Trump lemming.

  8. #26
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Frikkie5000 View Post
    If they all ran for the Democrat nomination then it would suggest that they are mainstream, not so?

    Incidentally, most of the above are also keen on healthcare for all illegal immigrants and a path to citizenship for all illegal immigrants.

    Free healthcare, minimal deportations and a path to citizenship for all illegal immigrants (lapsed visas included) really does incentivize illegal immigration. There really is no way around that.

    I agree with regards to people blindly defending Trump. My problem is that for some on the left, being conservative automatically makes you a Trump lemming.
    fortunately more conservatives are coming out against him. About time.

    Illegal immigration was trending down significantly under Obama. Itís really not a major issue in the US. Does need reform, and laws need to be enforced.

  9. #27
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    Quote Originally Posted by heyyahhey View Post
    You consider those mainstream? Incidentally - decriminalize does not equal ďopen bordersĒ. Most ďillegalsĒ are in the US as a result of visa overstay. Walls donít solve that. And overstay of a visa is not a criminal offense.

    I donít assume others who have different political views are stupid. I think those who regurgitate Trump falsehoods, however, or make wantonly false statements, are.

    Your reply to my post was not ďneutralĒ and it was directed at me - no reason to try and back away from that. It was also full of assumptions and inaccurate.

    Many developed countries (the vast majority actually) have socialized medicine. A number of them provide a higher overall standard or care than the US, and at lower cost. Other systems are terrible...
    To be fair, you do support socialized medicine. And you don't seem to like the tax cuts. So if i assumed, i did so correctly.

    Socialized medicine. Can of worms. The ONLY places it does work is where the cost of it can be carried by insanely high taxes and a low population. Not the best system imho.

  10. #28
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Frikkie5000 View Post
    If they all ran for the Democrat nomination then it would suggest that they are mainstream, not so?

    Incidentally, most of the above are also keen on healthcare for all illegal immigrants and a path to citizenship for all illegal immigrants.

    Free healthcare, minimal deportations and a path to citizenship for all illegal immigrants (lapsed visas included) really does incentivize illegal immigration. There really is no way around that.

    I agree with regards to people blindly defending Trump. My problem is that for some on the left, being conservative automatically makes you a Trump lemming.
    Immigration brought to you by Ronald Reagan https://youtu.be/ObqBtoz_fRA

  11. #29
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    QUITE INCORRECT.

    spoken like someone who only follows MSM....

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew D View Post
    He rode on the back of Obamaís work. The economy was already recovering. Heís a very divisive racist and absent leader. Total narcissist, which makes for the worst type of leadership. Can appear powerful, but basically self centered
    Merit before Race - anything else IS Racism.
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  12. #30
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Chaos View Post
    QUITE INCORRECT.

    spoken like someone who only follows MSM....

    it’s actually 100% correct. Even the most basic effort at research will bear that out.

    edit: my comment is in regards to the economy, and not specifically racism. He is a narcissist - zero doubt or debate about that.

    edit2: to correct elementary spelling error, thanks prof!
    Last edited by heyyahhey; 2020/07/11 at 07:22 PM.

  13. #31
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    Quote Originally Posted by heyyahhey View Post
    itís actually 100% correct. Even the most basic effort at research will bare that out.
    Is that bare a$$ed fact....?
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  14. #32
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof View Post
    Is that bare a$$ed fact....?

    I canít bear it!!

  15. #33
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    To answer your question. Change is dangerous. Politicians and to some extend newspaper people are scared of change and Trump is not a politician. Fat cats are simply worried about their very profitable jobs. Soviet Union had Khrushchev, Finland has had 3 or 4, UK has Boris... Most of those who rock the boat are pushed out. We are in the same boat. If ANC loses a vote in a municipality just look what they do to get it back.

    Quote Originally Posted by lizardalpha View Post
    I don't really follow American politics, but didn't he actually succeed in both creating jobs for Americans, and also strengthening their economy? I get he can spew utterly dumb stuff, but if he made it a better place, why all the hatred?
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Chaos View Post
    QUITE INCORRECT.

    spoken like someone who only follows MSM....
    Iím not even sure what MSM is ? Quite a bizarre comment , actually

  17. #35
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    Didn't Trump achieve a 49 year unemployment low of 3.7% just before Covid?
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt Chaos View Post
    QUITE INCORRECT.

    spoken like someone who only follows MSM....
    So I googled MSM. Apparently itís Methylsulphonylmethane. MSN on the other hand is some sort of Microsoft portal. Never been there either, but I assume it must be scary bad news! Shudder. Fortunately Iím able to independently form my own opinions, from my own reading.

    By the way, the Lincoln project are not the only critics of Trump. Mainstream Republicans are also speaking up.

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  20. #37
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    Quote Originally Posted by lizardalpha View Post
    I don't really follow American politics, but didn't he actually succeed in both creating jobs for Americans, and also strengthening their economy? I get he can spew utterly dumb stuff, but if he made it a better place, why all the hatred?
    He rode on Obama's coat tails for the state of the economy in the beginning, then proceeded to undo all that by cancelling NAFTA and starting an unwinnable economic war with China.
    Ask the Nebraska and other farmers about their employment and financial prospects...ask the coal miners he promised to put back to work...

    As for spouting dumb stuff, that is a pre-requisite, however, outright lying, racism, homophobia, misogyny and the rest of his list of widely and stridently demonstrated character flaws are not what the supposed "Leader of the Free World" is meant to demonstrate in the quest to lead by example.

    Factor in his interference in getting his mates off the hook for admitted crimes, obstructing investigations and the way he treats long time allies, and you suddenly have an odious and thoroughly unpleasant individual who does not fit the bill for the position.
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  22. #38
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    Quote Originally Posted by stephenplumb View Post
    Obama was a socialist that killed the economy and gave american sovereignty to China. Trump has pulled a good chunk of that back. He is in my mind the best president since Reagan, and probably even better than him. He is direct and may offend some, but he has done more to make America great than any recent president. Obama was a disaster and can claim no part of the Trump economic success.
    When was Obama elected?
    Obviously, the sudden drop off at the end cannot be fully laid at Trump's feet, but a fair proportion of it can. If he is so pro-the working class, why have lots of his cronies got aid and small businesses haven't?



    https://www.cbpp.org/research/econom...ession-economy
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Karol View Post
    Its interesting how Islamic terrorist attacks on the West have all but stopped under his watch and ISIS is nowhere
    They are in Mozambique and soon to be in SA, instead....
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    Default Re: The Lincoln Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew D View Post
    Iím not even sure what MSM is ? Quite a bizarre comment , actually
    MainStream Media

    For the left, it's CNN etc and for the right, it's Fox et al.
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