TD5 starting problem - Stumped





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  1. #1
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    Default TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    Hi Guys

    I have a starting problem on my 2003 Disco 2 TD5 Facelift. Im trying to sell her but would prefer the get this fixed first.

    After standing over night. First attempt to start the car in morning she either dies immediately, then starts perfectly on the next turn. Or on first turn coughs and splatters to life. In both cases she then starts perfectly the entire day.

    I have had her at three independent landrover specialists in Cape Town and none have been able to find the problem. One of them went to great lengths to find the problem and we had limited success with remapping but after a short period the problem returned.

    This is what we have done, some items needed replacing in any event.

    1. New fuel pressure regulator
    2. New Glow plugs
    3. New fuel pump (fuel pressure in the system fine as well)
    4. New injector Seals
    5. New non return valve fuel filter (edit: Air bleed valve replaced)
    6. New Battery
    7. Remapped ECU (limited success but problem returned shortly thereafter)

    I'm a bit frustrated with this issue to be honest any assistance will be appreciated and any TD5 specialists in CT who could help?

    Thanks in advance

    Ryan
    Last edited by frogstar; 2020/07/08 at 12:00 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    On 300Tdi it will be the spill return that's leaking.

    Does a Td5 have something like that?
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    I'm not sure if it has. There are no diesel leaks anywhere that we have noticed though.
    Last edited by frogstar; 2020/07/07 at 08:36 PM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    The return line sucks air during the night, draining all the diesel.

    But I'm not sure how the Td5 fuel system works.
    It's got an electric pump, so that should eliminate air.

    Someone more knowledgeable about this system will come shortly.
    '07 Land Rover Defender 110 TDI 300 Kalahari (Meisiekind˛)
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    I have no clue on how a Td5 work... but on the 2.5 and 3.0 rangers, the mechanical diesel bleeding pump by the fuel filter gives trouble and when the bakkie stands overnight the diesel will drain back to tank, no diesel leaks, causing an airlock in the filter.
    First start in the morning would start and die or splutter for a few seconds and then run pergect the whole day.
    I got a new pump thingie and all has been well for 3 years now.

    Hope that helps or narrows your poblem find a bit.


    .

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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    How is the MAF sensor doing?
    After I sorted out my MAF issue I have found that my Td5 starts up better and you can feel that the ecu regulates the idle. Higher when its cold and lower when warming up. When the ecu receives info from the MAF it knows how to calculate the diesel mix. It might just be this if everything else seems fine.
    Last edited by Wildkyker; 2020/07/07 at 08:59 PM.
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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    Quote Originally Posted by Bushbuk View Post
    I have no clue on how a Td5 work... but on the 2.5 and 3.0 rangers, the mechanical diesel bleeding pump by the fuel filter gives trouble and when the bakkie stands overnight the diesel will drain back to tank, no diesel leaks, causing an airlock in the filter.
    First start in the morning would start and die or splutter for a few seconds and then run pergect the whole day.
    I got a new pump thingie and all has been well for 3 years now.

    Hope that helps or narrows your poblem find a bit.


    .
    Thanks. Number 5 on my list was that fix

  8. #8
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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildkyker View Post
    How is the MAF sensor doing?
    After I sorted out my MAF issue I have found that my Td5 starts up better and you can feel that the ecu regulates the idle. Higher when its cold and lower when warming up. When the ecu receives info from the MAF it knows how to calculate the diesel mix. It might just be this if everything else seems fine.
    Thanks will add it to the list of things to check out

  9. #9
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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    Quote Originally Posted by frogstar View Post
    Hi Guys

    I have a starting problem on my 2003 Disco 2 TD5 Facelift. Im trying to sell her but would prefer the get this fixed first.

    After standing over night. First attempt to start the car in morning she either dies immediately, then starts perfectly on the next turn. Or on first turn coughs and splatters to life. In both cases she then starts perfectly the entire day.

    I have had her at three independent landrover specialists in Cape Town and none have been able to find the problem. We had limited success with remapping but after a short period the problem returned.

    This is what we have done, some items needed replacing in any event.

    1. New fuel pressure regulator
    2. New Glow plugs
    3. New fuel pump (fuel pressure in the system fine as well)
    4. New injector Seals
    5. New non return valve fuel filter
    6. New Battery
    7. Remapped ECU (limited success but problem returned shortly thereafter)

    I'm a bit frustrated with this issue to be honest any assistance will be appreciated and any TD5 specialists in CT who could help?

    Thanks in advance

    Ryan
    The starting problems are usually caused by the ''air bleed valve" (WJN500110) which is in the rear wheel side port not by the NRV in the front chassis side
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    Quote Originally Posted by sierrafery View Post
    The starting problems are usually caused by the ''air bleed valve" (WJN500110) which is in the rear wheel side port not by the NRV in the front chassis side
    Thanks yes that was done as part of point 5. My wording is probably not correct
    Last edited by frogstar; 2020/07/08 at 08:14 AM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    Don't discount air leaks at the filter.
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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    Have you checked the glow plug relay and fusable link for the glow plugs.

    I know my TD5s glow plugs are dead but it starts first time even in the winter then idles a bit uneven for about 3 seconds then its fine.
    Last edited by FWM; 2020/07/08 at 09:38 AM.
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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    Check the water trap, they tend to crack when overtighten.
    Put clear hoses on the fuel lines to see if there are air bubbles coming through
    That should tell you if you have an airleak..

    You will also see on those hoses if there is a leakdown overnight

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  15. #14
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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    Quote Originally Posted by Disco Trok View Post
    Check the water trap, they tend to crack when overtighten.
    Put clear hoses on the fuel lines to see if there are air bubbles coming through
    That should tell you if you have an airleak..

    You will also see on those hoses if there is a leakdown overnight

    thank you, Fuel pressure is fine when tested, would that not be a problem if there was an air leak?

    the one indi put a new filter trap on the car when he was testing, no change

  16. #15
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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    Quote Originally Posted by FWM View Post
    Have you checked the glow plug relay and fusable link for the glow plugs.

    I know my TD5s glow plugs are dead but it starts first time even in the winter then idles a bit uneven for about 3 seconds then its fine.
    thnk you i will check, i assume this was tested when the glo plugs were replaced, but you never know
    Last edited by frogstar; 2020/07/08 at 11:47 AM.

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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    When you start the car, stop at position 2, wait for 30 seconds. Push the pedal 5 times to bleed the system... Do you hear a gurgling sound? It sounds like water rushing around inside the dash. If so then its air in the fuel lines.

    If not the above, clean the Crank Position sensor and the started motor contacts (Might as well do this anyway, a dirty CPS is an issue)

    I know its hard to believe, but the starter motor, when its going south, interferes with the CPS signal and the car won't start..
    (I did not believe it either but Walter at LRXtreme mentioned this and it solved my problem...)

    You can even remove the MAF, the car should still run, start fine, just not optimally. IIRC at idle it runs richer than normal but an top end runs leaner with the AFM removed/unplugged.
    Last edited by NewLandy; 2020/07/08 at 04:02 PM.

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  19. #17
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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    Quote Originally Posted by NewLandy View Post
    When you start the car, stop at position 2, wait for 30 seconds. Push the pedal 5 times to bleed the system... Do you hear a gurgling sound? It sounds like water rushing around inside the dash. If so then its air in the fuel lines.

    If not the above, clean the Crank Position sensor and the started motor contacts (Might as well do this anyway, a dirty CPS is an issue)

    I know its hard to believe, but the starter motor, when its going south, interferes with the CPS signal and the car won't start..
    (I did not believe it either but Walter at LRXtreme mentioned this and it solved my problem...)

    You can even remove the AFM, the car should still run, start fine, just not optimally. IIRC at idle it runs richer than normal but an top end runs leaner with the AFM removed/unplugged.
    AFM or MAF?
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  21. #18
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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    Glad NewLandy mentioned the CPS. After that comprehensive aforementioned list, I’d start there now.
    Jordan

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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    I have had various of these sorts of problems. Airlock overnight, etc.

    Easiest way to make sure it is and stays happy is to fit a high pressure petrol pump. This will act as a lift pump. Also has a non return valve in. These pumps deliver 3bar pressure.
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    Default Re: TD5 starting problem - Stumped

    ... each glow-plug is about 5A load and on TD5 there are 4 ... so thats 20A load so connections need be good ...
    Check your fusebox elect feed (in) and earth connections (two screws connect each wire) make sure those connections are good and dont get hot at start-up.
    ... also can check the relays clicking in and out there as you start
    if they warm & which clicks as engine fades ... can press the relevant relays lightly in case their blade connections not good (resist bending or twisting male blades w pliers as many folk do... !)

    ... beware steam cleaning etc , esp of engine, (if selling car etc) as this can affect engine sensors like CPS ... ? or perhaps cover such electricals with plastic or clingfilm before cleaning etc ...
    Last edited by BushNomad; 2020/07/10 at 05:47 AM.
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