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  1. #41
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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof View Post
    Raymond has also become quiet.....
    and your point is?
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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof View Post
    Raymond has also become quiet.....
    People must be happy with the service
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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceHun View Post
    and your point is?
    There was some aggro around and maybe it wasn't appreciated

    My take
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  4. #44
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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    In this particular case I had unfortunately had the exact similar experience with the specific company. I however did not post it publicly and go on a rant. I sent the commercial member / owner a direct message raising my issue. He was unfortunately very defensive and not listening to what I was trying to raise. I left it at that and decided to do business elsewhere.

    People should in my opinion firts try and resolve it directly (even twice if need be) , before jumping online and bashing businesses. If all else fails, walk away.
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  6. #45
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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwayne P View Post
    and probably under the rock he comes from, has not heard about Covid yet.

    I am in manufacturing and there are a lot of back order issues and companies working half day etc. We need to work around this and understand that.
    I see this too frequently and more so recently. There is a fine line between clearing backlogs and rolling this months revenue to pay last months creditors. I have seen this months client commencement deposits used to fund this months costs and parts of other client projects from previous months. None of these have ever ended well for any party involved.
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  8. #46
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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    Quote Originally Posted by Slow Ranger View Post
    That was one of the more entertaining stories on the forum. I wonder what happened to the wood fetcher and what he's doing now.

    Lurking under a different name perhaps
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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    I see this too frequently and more so recently. There is a fine line between clearing backlogs and rolling this months revenue to pay last months creditors. I have seen this months client commencement deposits used to fund this months costs and parts of other client projects from previous months. None of these have ever ended well for any party involved.
    This is exactly why I only have COD accounts. 30 day accounts tend to become 60, 90, 120 days.
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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    Time to deconstruct this fred as there are a number of issues being merged into one.

    The first issue is the company. This has no bearing on this thread.

    The second issue is the complaints. This is a part of our society and people have a right to raise concerns and other people have a right to know. It has no bearing on this thread.

    The third is the issue of people joining the forum with the sole purpose to complain about a product or commercial member. This is what this thread is about.

    Caveat Emptor still rings true and personally, I prefer to do my own research on products or companies prior to either procuring a product or service or booking a holiday or taking on a client. If I find untoward complaints or issues, I can still decide to evaluate whether to proceed or not based on my own judgement of the issue being an isolated case. If I do proceed and find that I might have been wrong, the last thing I will do is make it public. My own selection process failed, not just the supplier or service provider.

    We seem to be in an age of idiots who get caught up in the prospect of owning something and who fail to do their own research before spending their money. If you are reading this and you have had or continue to have ''problems'' with suppliers or service providers and you take exception to me calling you an idiot, then realise that 80% of your problem lies in your lack of research, the supplier or service provider only highlighted that you failed in this.
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  12. #49
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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    Time to deconstruct this fred as there are a number of issues being merged into one.

    The first issue is the company. This has no bearing on this thread.

    The second issue is the complaints. This is a part of our society and people have a right to raise concerns and other people have a right to know. It has no bearing on this thread.

    The third is the issue of people joining the forum with the sole purpose to complain about a product or commercial member. This is what this thread is about.

    Caveat Emptor still rings true and personally, I prefer to do my own research on products or companies prior to either procuring a product or service or booking a holiday or taking on a client. If I find untoward complaints or issues, I can still decide to evaluate whether to proceed or not based on my own judgement of the issue being an isolated case. If I do proceed and find that I might have been wrong, the last thing I will do is make it public. My own selection process failed, not just the supplier or service provider.

    We seem to be in an age of idiots who get caught up in the prospect of owning something and who fail to do their own research before spending their money. If you are reading this and you have had or continue to have ''problems'' with suppliers or service providers and you take exception to me calling you an idiot, then realise that 80% of your problem lies in your lack of research, the supplier or service provider only highlighted that you failed in this.
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  13. #50
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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post



    We seem to be in an age of idiots who get caught up in the prospect of owning something and who fail to do their own research before spending their money and suddenly have access to interweb and can voice their idiotness to like minded idiots. If you are reading this and you have had or continue to have ''problems'' with suppliers or service providers and you take exception to me calling you an idiot, then realise that 80% of your problem lies in your lack of research, the supplier or service provider only highlighted that you failed in this.
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  14. #51
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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    Time to deconstruct this fred as there are a number of issues being merged into one.

    The first issue is the company. This has no bearing on this thread.

    The second issue is the complaints. This is a part of our society and people have a right to raise concerns and other people have a right to know. It has no bearing on this thread.

    The third is the issue of people joining the forum with the sole purpose to complain about a product or commercial member. This is what this thread is about.

    Caveat Emptor still rings true and personally, I prefer to do my own research on products or companies prior to either procuring a product or service or booking a holiday or taking on a client. If I find untoward complaints or issues, I can still decide to evaluate whether to proceed or not based on my own judgement of the issue being an isolated case. If I do proceed and find that I might have been wrong, the last thing I will do is make it public. My own selection process failed, not just the supplier or service provider.

    We seem to be in an age of idiots who get caught up in the prospect of owning something and who fail to do their own research before spending their money. If you are reading this and you have had or continue to have ''problems'' with suppliers or service providers and you take exception to me calling you an idiot, then realise that 80% of your problem lies in your lack of research, the supplier or service provider only highlighted that you failed in this.

    This post makes zero sense. Let’s follow the logic:

    1. Customer to do “own research”
    2. Makes a decision to buy.
    3. Finds out decision was wrong/poor service received.
    4. Blames self, stays silent.

    Please then explain how step 1 occurs. What are you researching? Are you beta-testing their customer service department? Are you calling their bank?

    This is simple:

    as a business - provide good service. When you fail, fix it.

    as a customer, expect good service. When you don’t get it, discuss it with the merchant and try to resolve.

    when the merchant does not resolve, then help your community by providing information. Hence #1 is enabled. That business either corrects path or fails. It is that business operators choice to make.

    What you appear to be suggesting is that others should post their bad experience, but you should not. That is a logical impossibility.

    just to add: there comes a point where enough is enough. Should not turn to stalking. And when/if the company makes it right, the customer should also report that.
    Last edited by heyyahhey; 2020/07/03 at 08:45 AM.

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  16. #52
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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    Quote Originally Posted by heyyahhey View Post
    This post makes zero sense. Let’s follow the logic:

    1. Customer to do “own research”
    2. Makes a decision to buy.
    3. Finds out decision was wrong/poor service received.
    4. Blames self, stays silent.

    Please then explain how step 1 occurs. What are you researching? Are you beta-testing their customer service department? Are you calling their bank?

    This is simple:

    as a business - provide good service. When you fail, fix it.

    as a customer, expect good service. When you don’t get it, discuss it with the merchant and try to resolve.

    when the merchant does not resolve, then help your community by providing information. Hence #1 is enabled. That business either corrects path or fails. It is that business operators choice to make.

    What you appear to be suggesting is that others should post their bad experience, but you should not. That is a logical impossibility.

    just to add: there comes a point where enough is enough. Should not turn to stalking. And when/if the company makes it right, the customer should also report that.
    I will take your cultural background into consideration when answering.

    You might be familiar with Supplier Partnering Programmes from a work perspective. You establish a set of criteria for the product and then you go and match potential suppliers. You research these suppliers including chatting to some of their customers amongst others and you start to build up a picture. You have a specification for both the product and other terms and conditions. You then embark on a process (maybe a tender) and short list potential suppliers. Eventually you end up identifying, appointing and managing a supplier according to the specifications you have determined. Any deviations from these you address with the supplier. Yes?

    If you dont have such in place an appoint a supplier because they are a cousin, or lowest price and the wheels fall off and your business comes to a stand still, causing you, your shareholders, stakeholders and customers major issues, or it results in injury or death, who is to blame? The supplier?

    No, you and the supplier are to blame, you because you failed due process in selecting a supplier. Had you been thorough, you would have prevented or minimised the risk.

    The same applies to personal purchases.
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  17. #53
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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    I will take your cultural background into consideration when answering.

    You might be familiar with Supplier Partnering Programmes from a work perspective. You establish a set of criteria for the product and then you go and match potential suppliers. You research these suppliers including chatting to some of their customers amongst others and you start to build up a picture. You have a specification for both the product and other terms and conditions. You then embark on a process (maybe a tender) and short list potential suppliers. Eventually you end up identifying, appointing and managing a supplier according to the specifications you have determined. Any deviations from these you address with the supplier. Yes?

    If you dont have such in place an appoint a supplier because they are a cousin, or lowest price and the wheels fall off and your business comes to a stand still, causing you, your shareholders, stakeholders and customers major issues, or it results in injury or death, who is to blame? The supplier?

    No, you and the supplier are to blame, you because you failed due process in selecting a supplier. Had you been thorough, you would have prevented or minimised the risk.

    The same applies to personal purchases.

    Sorry, no. B2b and B2c are not the same. And again, on a purely logical level, your post self-contradicts. My cultural heritage has nothing to do with it, unless you are saying South Africans are illogical and Americans are not. I don’t find that to be the case

    Or are you saying South Africans should not expect good service? TIA? So tired of that poor excuse.

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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    Quote Originally Posted by heyyahhey View Post
    Sorry, no. B2b and B2c are not the same. And again, on a purely logical level, your post self-contradicts. My cultural heritage has nothing to do with it, unless you are saying South Africans are illogical and Americans are not. I don’t find that to be the case

    Or are you saying South Africans should not expect good service? TIA? So tired of that poor excuse.
    I am refering to the US being the home of the phoney science of Marketing and related blurbs that form consumer views, perspectives, anticipations and expectations while releasing them from their own obligation of conducting in depth research into who they do business with. Good principles and practice remain true whether you are buying from a company for a company, buying from a company for personal use or buying from a person for personal use. Hence the term Caveat Emptor.

    Your views and a lot of other people too, are probably based on one blurb; '' the customer is always right''. This changes the nature of the relationship totally, because even idiots and fools easily parted with their money are technically, always right.

    Everyone should expect good service and products, however, they should also be responsible for checking that they will receive this. SA has a celebrated Bill of Rights. Do you know it also has a Bill of Responsibilities? We are very quick to spout our rights while being oblivious to our obligations and responsibilities.


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    Last edited by Estee; 2020/07/03 at 09:39 AM.
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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    Lurking under a different name perhaps
    Not any more.

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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    I am refering to the US being the home of the phoney science of Marketing and related blurbs that form consumer views, perspectives, anticipations and expectations while releasing them from their own obligation of conducting in depth research into who they do business with. Good principles and practice remain true whether you are buying from a company for a company, buying from a company for personal use or buying from a person for personal use. Hence the term Caveat Emptor.

    Your views and a lot of other people too, are probably based on one blurb; '' the customer is always right''. This changes the nature of the relationship totally, because even idiots and fools easily parted with their money are technically, always right.

    Everyone should expect good service and products, however, they should also be responsible for checking that they will receive this. SA has a celebrated Bill of Rights. Do you know it also has a Bill of Responsibilities? We are very quick to spout our rights while being oblivious to our obligations and responsibilities.


    https://www.gov.za/about-government/...eat%20country.

    I understand what you are saying. I do not agree that the customer is always right. There are plenty with irrational expectations, and some that are just bat-poop crazy. The vendor, however, has the obligation to offer good service and when there are failures (inevitable), to try to fix it to the best of their ability. In those cases where the customer is wrong/unreasonable, the vendor has every right, if aired in a public forum, to point out the facts of the case, to protect their reputation.

    But again - your approach to holding the customer equally accountable for a failure in research, but also not publishing your experiences, is incompatible, in my view.

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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    You have to take into account the different problems that a customer may experience, there can be Issues with
    1. Quality
    2. Price
    3. Availability

    On all 3 of those the customer has to do his research and decide whether he accepts the terms offered, and the information is not difficult to find.
    The problem in this instance that this thread refers to is that the product is advertised as available , the transaction concluded and only after that it is revealed the product is not actually available.
    This is their "Business model" and the true nature of it is hidden in "administrative problems". This Business model have persisted over long duration, so there is no intention of correcting it which means it is how they intend to operate.

    Researching this particular problem is thus limited to customers reporting it in whatever way that can. I just googled Tactical distributors and on the first google page there are only adverts from them and 2 other link , one to the Hello Peter and one to the thread on this forum. the algorithms involved means that the google result will differ for everyone , but I for one was spared experiencing their customer service by coming across a similar thread a few years ago and my opinion is that I am thankful for those that have gone to the effort to report the problems they have had.

    When the virus situation started they advertised PPE products when no one could find any and I was in dire need of some, I tried to find out whether they had the products in stock and they avoided giving a direct answer to that affect https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum...able-from-TDSA! , confirming to me that they intend to continue with their modus operandi. Yes they did reply requesting that i mail them my requirements, but I have observed that to be part of how they operate as well.

    To get back to the specific question of this thread , I agree that the person should at least return when his problems has been sorted out to report on that , but i would not disallow registering just to complain/warn others as it does provide information that can serve others.
    Last edited by Bex; 2020/07/03 at 11:49 AM.

  24. #58
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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    Quote Originally Posted by heyyahhey View Post
    I understand what you are saying. I do not agree that the customer is always right. There are plenty with irrational expectations, and some that are just bat-poop crazy. The vendor, however, has the obligation to offer good service and when there are failures (inevitable), to try to fix it to the best of their ability. In those cases where the customer is wrong/unreasonable, the vendor has every right, if aired in a public forum, to point out the facts of the case, to protect their reputation.

    But again - your approach to holding the customer equally accountable for a failure in research, but also not publishing your experiences, is incompatible, in my view.
    A small point of order. I dont advocate people not complaining. I use Hello Peter and Tripadvisor often in my looking up suppliers, which are dependent on people reviewing services and products. But I do look them up first.

    Vendors who consistently offer poor service or products wont be around for long if people did their research first and used logic in their decisions (Land Rover is a great example of not using logic).

    The risk element though is that a company could have 1 000 000 customers of which 100 post negative stuff on whereas the satisfied customers dont post at all. Keep in mind that a 6 Sigma business has 3.4 cock-ups per million opportunities, a 4 Sigma one has 6 210 cock-ups per million opportunities but that is still a 99.38% positive yield and a 3 Sigma has 66 800 cock-ups at a 93.32% positive yield. Now imagine if each of these opportunities was a customer interaction. A 3S company would have 66 800 complaints on Hello Peter for instance if everyone complained bitterly about what they received. The potential damage to that company which has a 93% positive yield would be astronomical. Heinz's experience proves this. So I am not alone in not publicly complaining but I like to think it is because I do my homework first and dont have much to complain about.

    We digress, should people join the forum just to complain about a service or product they did or did not receive especially if there are indicators that one should be wary?
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  26. #59
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    Default Re: People joining the forum to come and complain about comercial members

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post

    We digress, should people join the forum just to complain about a service or product they did or did not receive especially if there are indicators that one should be wary?
    Personally; to complain i.e. post your experience with a product, I have no issue with, as long as the supplier has and is given the same opportunity to publish their side.

    But joining to flame/burn/spew, no. Not the platform for that. that is what Facebook is for
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