Ineos Grenadier revealed!! - Page 9





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  1. #161
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    The old Defender started losing sales when the Td5 and Puma came along, they tried to turn a workhorse into a show pony and failed miserably. As soon as they got computerized everything went South.
    I was offered a low milage Puma up here for 60 000 rand I offered him 5 000 for the bonnet, that's how much we think of them. I know this will get the Puma and Td5 owners backs up but remember you might be doing 5% dirt roads we're lucky if we do 5% tar.
    I don't know about SA but the rest of the places I've been in Africa the government, parks, roads departments are littered with Pumas etc that can't be fixed. At the auctions they sell for peanuts and most people who buy them immediately drop a 300Tdi engine in.
    If the Grenadier is reliable, minimum elec, spares available, fuel comparable, extremely good off-road etc it stands a good chance of thriving if not.....
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  2. #162
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.8i rocks View Post
    The old Defender started losing sales when the Td5 and Puma came along, they tried to turn a workhorse into a show pony and failed miserably. As soon as they got computerized everything went South.
    I was offered a low milage Puma up here for 60 000 rand I offered him 5 000 for the bonnet, that's how much we think of them. I know this will get the Puma and Td5 owners backs up but remember you might be doing 5% dirt roads we're lucky if we do 5% tar.
    I don't know about SA but the rest of the places I've been in Africa the government, parks, roads departments are littered with Pumas etc that can't be fixed. At the auctions they sell for peanuts and most people who buy them immediately drop a 300Tdi engine in.
    If the Grenadier is reliable, minimum elec, spares available, fuel comparable, extremely good off-road etc it stands a good chance of thriving if not.....
    With a modern BMW diesel under the bonnet, you can bet your last dollar it will have lots of electronic tech as well. If they want to sell it in the rest of the world it will have to adhere to ever stricter emissions control, requiring more electronic intervention to achieve.

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  4. #163
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    '07 Land Rover Defender 110 TDI 300 Kalahari (Meisiekind≤)
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  6. #164
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by 2.8i rocks View Post
    The old Defender started losing sales when the Td5 and Puma came along, they tried to turn a workhorse into a show pony and failed miserably. As soon as they got computerized everything went South.
    I was offered a low milage Puma up here for 60 000 rand I offered him 5 000 for the bonnet, that's how much we think of them. I know this will get the Puma and Td5 owners backs up but remember you might be doing 5% dirt roads we're lucky if we do 5% tar.
    I don't know about SA but the rest of the places I've been in Africa the government, parks, roads departments are littered with Pumas etc that can't be fixed. At the auctions they sell for peanuts and most people who buy them immediately drop a 300Tdi engine in.
    If the Grenadier is reliable, minimum elec, spares available, fuel comparable, extremely good off-road etc it stands a good chance of thriving if not.....
    The Defender started losing sales when the EU emissions and safety requirements made it obsolete in a very large part of its original market.

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  8. #165
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Any indication as to what the Grenadier will weigh?Alu body panels?
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  9. #166
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois Theron View Post
    So why do farmers do this then with Hiluxes/Isuzus/Rangers etc?

    I don't understand your reasoning.
    Money money money , itís a rich mans word , more and more they start to drive Mahindras etc , if you want to be a player in that market , you better get your pricing right . The farming community is practical and conservative . Everything over R400k is for the church and everything under for the farm
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  10. #167
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    I watched Mark Evans's interview with Jim Ratcliffe, its very clear that this is a purposefully designed vehicle, it's first and foremost designed to be a rugged reliable and capable offroad vehicle, but he did say that it will be comfortable to use, so although it looks like a Defender I think the interior will be thoroughly modern. I also suspect it to be wider than a Defender for more interior comfort, no sitting squashed against the door like in a Defender.

    I also read that Magna Steyr is involved in the design, so we can expect G Class competence as far as drivetrain is concerned. If they can get the engine and gearbox combination right and sell it at a reasonable price they will have a winner.

    The only other vehicles on the market today that was designed to be a workhorse and tough off roader from the outset and that has stuck to that are the 76/79 Land Cruisers, and Jeep Wranglers, that's why they are still in existence today.

    As far as the new Defender goes it is trying to wear too many hats at the same time, it no longer is a purposeful off roader only. Landrover should have done to the Defender what Mercedes Benz did with the G Class not talking about the outrageous AMG models of course! More talking about the G Class Professional. The same thing that Chrysler did with the Jeep Wrangler. Not changing the basic recipe but rather improving it with newer more reliable technology.
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  12. #168
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooly View Post
    Landrover should have done to the Defender what Mercedes Benz did with the G Class not talking about the outrageous AMG models of course! More talking about the G Class Professional..
    It's all about money. I suspect they sell much less G-class professional than the "outrageous" AMG versions.

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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by byaru1 View Post
    It's all about money. I suspect they sell much less G-class professional than the "outrageous" AMG versions.
    Even the professional is over 2 Million! Imagine if the Defender cost that!

    So a 76 Landcruiser is over R 800k and the defender starts at R 1 Million. What must the Grenadier sell for to be competitive.

    My guess is with that Bmw motor it will be more expensive than the bottom of the range Defender
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  14. #170
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Here is a very balanced look at the Grenadier / Defender comparison...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjGTeAeDORo

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  16. #171
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveHarris View Post
    Here is a very balanced look at the Grenadier / Defender comparison...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjGTeAeDORo

    Ciao
    I know exactly where this guys comes from. And he makes a lot of sense. His video should be watched by all manufacturers. Unfortunately much of what he says will go right over the heads of many in the car industry.
    I hope Grenadier pays attention.
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  18. #172
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jfh View Post
    Brilliant video, a lot of unconfortable truths...

    And yes, stay away from '30 something' car journalists!

    The 'let's go for an adventure' - 'let's go for a latte' joke was worth the 11 mins in itself!

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  20. #173
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Two very thought provoking videos. Interesting how we have always been telling each other that SA's needs are very different from the developed world and here two Brits are echoing many of our thoughts.

    I do get a sense that for certain applications, users are getting to the point where "technology" is becoming too much for many. I certainly hope that is the case and that manufacturers will start realising that putting in extra complications just for the sake of doing it, does not always cut it. Anyway, will be interesting to see how things pan out.
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  21. #174
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois Theron View Post
    I do get a sense that for certain applications, users are getting to the point where "technology" is becoming too much for many.
    Yes. There is a difference between use full technology, and technology for the sake of technology.
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  22. #175
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fontuin View Post
    Yes. There is a difference between use full technology, and technology for the sake of technology.
    Indeed. Unfortunately JLR has started doing the latter as a sales technique.
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  23. #176
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    Indeed. Unfortunately JLR has started doing the latter as a sales technique.
    Which excite many people, so there is a massive market, but it's not what everyone wants.

    We should also not forget necessary technology, so for example it is unlikely that an engine will meet emission standards in many parts of the world without an ECU, we also can't have 250 kW and 16" rims, legislation will demand larger brake calipers, so we have to deal with that.

    Different specs for different parts of the world may be a solution, not sure what it will do to production costs though, building many different variants of the same vehicle?

    Just thinking off the top of my head here, but I wonder if Grenadier wouldn't be able to partner with manufacturers in different parts of the world for region specific products. So in Europe BMW and ZF supply engines and gearboxes, but in SA Isuzu supply the engines and gearboxes for the African market with it's lower emissions standards and poor fuel.
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  24. #177
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooly View Post

    The only other vehicles on the market today that was designed to be a workhorse and tough off roader from the outset and that has stuck to that are the 76/79 Land Cruisers, and Jeep Wranglers, that's why they are still in existence today. .
    It is funny how everybody leaves one of the best vehicles out the whole time, in discussions about work horses
    Last edited by Koos Best; 2020/07/08 at 12:23 PM.
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  26. #178
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Koos Best View Post
    It is funny how everybody leaves one of the best vehicles out the whole time, in discussions about work horses
    Because Nissan ZA just was too useless to sell them.
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  28. #179
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Koos Best View Post
    It is funny how everybody leaves one of the best vehicles out the whole time, in discussions about work horses
    Yes and the previous generation Patrol Wagon, most underrated vehicles, and so easily forgotten.
    Last edited by Fontuin; 2020/07/08 at 01:00 PM.
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  30. #180
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooly View Post
    I I also suspect it to be wider than a Defender for more interior comfort, .
    Its about the same 1800mm
    Last edited by oradba69; 2020/07/08 at 01:05 PM.

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