Ineos Grenadier revealed!! - Page 15





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  1. #281
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fontuin View Post
    What are Land Rover so worried about? They abandoned the Defender's market, nobody stole it from them.
    Well, it was their design (in use or not) and they have kept the name. There is a chance that there may come a time when people start saying the real Defender replacement (Grenadier) is better than the Defender.

    Itís egg on face stuff really.

  2. #282
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fontuin View Post
    What are Land Rover so worried about? They abandoned the Defender's market, nobody stole it from them.
    May be they have not fully abandoned the old defender project? Perhaps a reincarnation is in the works, akin to MB's effort with the G-class..

  3. #283
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    "The Ineos Grenadier is expected to make its local debut in 2022."

    Pull the other one!

  4. #284
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    They seem to have gone a little quiet?

    Perhaps realising that revealing everything so early in the game might be working against them as they continue to make product decisions?
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  5. #285
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by byaru1 View Post
    May be they have not fully abandoned the old defender project? Perhaps a reincarnation is in the works, akin to MB's effort with the G-class..
    That's right, I forgot about that.

    The Mercedes ML was supposed to be a replacement for the G, but Mercedes decided not to discontinue the G in the end.
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  6. #286
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    No.

    The G was first and foremost a military vehicle and never to be discontinued. Built in Graz in Austria

    The ML was originally designed for the US market and built in the US.

    Totally different concepts.
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  7. #287
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by JohanMaree View Post
    No.

    The G was first and foremost a military vehicle and never to be discontinued. Built in Graz in Austria

    The ML was originally designed for the US market and built in the US.

    Totally different concepts.
    I agree with you that they are different concepts, but the ML was originally meant to replace the G.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M-Class

    That's according to Wikipedia anyway, which could be incorrect?

    "Mercedes-Benz proposed a plan to replace the G-Class, which at the time had been in production for 11 years. A joint agreement with Mitsubishi Motors to develop and produce a sports-utility vehicle was made in early 1991 and was confirmed publicly that June. Plans were made to base it on the Montero/Pajero platform, with one of them being badged as a Mercedes-Benz and the other a Mitsubishi. In May 1992, these plans were abandoned citing "technical problems" and Mercedes-Benz continued on with in-house development from January 1993."

    In essence, replacing the Old Defender with the new, is the same as if Mercedes-Benz had replaced the G-Class with the ML.
    Last edited by Fontuin; 2020/08/05 at 08:06 PM.
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  8. #288
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by JohanMaree View Post
    No.

    The G was first and foremost a military vehicle and never to be discontinued. Built in Graz in Austria

    The ML was originally designed for the US market and built in the US.

    Totally different concepts.
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  9. #289
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by JohanMaree View Post
    No.

    The G was first and foremost a military vehicle and never to be discontinued. Built in Graz in Austria

    The ML was originally designed for the US market and built in the US.

    Totally different concepts.
    Built by Magna Steyr (the Canadian company) in Graz in Austria. This is the same company Ineos claims it has a relationship with. Of course, a billionaire can buy a relationship with just about any one (ask Donald Trump).

    The G-Wagen (its actual name in the US) is a profitable venture given the military contracts and then the "lifestyle" models are gravy on top at +$100K a pop. There was one left on the street for months near my place collecting tickets for no road tax - I guess the owner was too busy in the Middle East to bother.

    Magna has a great track record of producing top-end vehicles at a top-end price. If a Grenadier ever actually happens, its price will be similar to today's G-Wagen

  10. #290
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by JBX View Post
    Very interesting. It looks like they will fit 6 cylinder BMW petrol and diesel turbo engine options combined with 8 speed gearbox (probably auto) and their own transfer box. This will be combined with 2 solid beam axles on coil suspension. 3 difflocks to be fitted.

    Just hope they do not get locked into some design copy battle in court.

    The BMW engine LR we built in SA was an early warning that this is what the market wants.

    Just show what can happen if you don't listen to your own customer base. LR spent 50 + years building a good product and reputation and then change direction into something not suited or affordable to their market.

    If the Grenadier sell at between R 400K and R 600K then LR Defender will have an uphill battle.
    I read somewhere recently that Land Rover have already launched a copyright infringement lawsuit against INEOS - and the initial court decision went against LR. With the cash resources of the TATA group behind them, They will probably appeal and keep appealing. The silly thing is that the new Defender and the Grenadier appeal to different types of customers. The Grenadier will poach few, if any, potential new Defender customers and vice versa. I agree with the comments that the Grenadier is what LR should have done to update the Defender.

  11. #291
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by sandyba View Post
    I read somewhere recently that Land Rover have already launched a copyright infringement lawsuit against INEOS - and the initial court decision went against LR. With the cash resources of the TATA group behind them, They will probably appeal and keep appealing.
    And rightly so.

    Intellectual property is intellectual property.

    The silly thing is that the new Defender and the Grenadier appeal to different types of customers. The Grenadier will poach few, if any, potential new Defender customers and vice versa. I agree with the comments that the Grenadier is what LR should have done to update the Defender.
    You and I both don't know what JLR has in plan and why they are fighting to preserve IP behind their icon.

    You never know, may be they are prepping a surprise for the old defender crowd....

  12. #292
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by byaru1 View Post
    And rightly so.

    Intellectual property is intellectual property.



    You and I both don't know what JLR has in plan and why they are fighting to preserve IP behind their icon.

    You never know, may be they are prepping a surprise for the old defender crowd....
    if landrover keep frustration Ineos with appeals, they could just set up shop in China.

    China has been copping cars for a decades.


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  13. #293
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!


  14. #294
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    The traction control always seems to be a bit late in catching the spin. Makes it look a bit toy-like. Though not really a fair comparison.
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  15. #295
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    TC is shite. Fit lockers.
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  16. #296
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Almal wat fotos opsit wys net buite om fotos, hoe lyk hy binne?

  17. #297
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    TC is shite. Fit lockers.
    Hahaha like the locker fitted Rubicon getting its ass kicked by the TC Defender in the video on the other thread.
    Just imagine having both TC and lockers.
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  18. #298
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stofdonkie View Post
    Almal wat fotos opsit wys net buite om fotos, hoe lyk hy binne?
    Niemand weet nie.
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  19. #299
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Quote Originally Posted by CanAmSteve View Post
    Built by Magna Steyr (the Canadian company) in Graz in Austria. This is the same company Ineos claims it has a relationship with. Of course, a billionaire can buy a relationship with just about anyone (ask Donald Trump).

    The G-Wagen (its actual name in the US) is a profitable venture given the military contracts and then the "lifestyle" models are gravy on top at +$100K a pop. There was one left on the street for months near my place collecting tickets for no road tax - I guess the owner was too busy in the Middle East to bother.

    Magna has a great track record of producing top-end vehicles at a top-end price. If a Grenadier ever actually happens, its price will be similar to today's G-Wagen
    Time and time again the G - class gets a new lease of life thanks to military orders. Originally in 1973, the Shah of Persia (now Iran) ordered enough to convince MB the car had merit. So it went into production.
    The G-class was almost discontinued in 2005. This time the US ordered a number for the Marines saving it. I am not sure when the right-hand drive was lost but think it was around this time. Again in 2012 as Mercedes was thinking about discontinuing the G-class again, the Australian army came along with an order for around 2500 vehicles if they could come up with a 6x6 model to replace their Defender and Defender Perenties. MB did and the G-class was saved again as well as RHD models being available again. Also with the new 6x6 model.

    Without those military orders, the G-class would be dead. Sadly in 2005 when the US army was looking Ford was trying to offload Land Rover and again in 2012 Tata was trying to restructure Land Rover into JLR. I suspect inward-looking managers lost sight of how good military contracts could be to the brand.

    Again they have missed the reality of a great military vehicle (Sadly also amazing at ensuring the continuity of the Land Rover legend) leaving the door open to Ineos.

    About the court case, I can't see how they thought to win with the Santana Anibal and Iveco Massif both vehicles that grew out of a Defender concept.
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  20. #300
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    Default Re: Ineos Grenadier revealed!!

    Episode 5 - Engine & transmission

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmmt...&utm_campaign=


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