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  1. #81
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    Quote Originally Posted by Blikka View Post
    The Discovery Sport's tail light looks different. That looks like a Disco 5 tail light. I have a Disovery Sport and thinking of trading in for a D5. Did the offroad course in a D5 and for where I want to drive it, was more than capable. I loved the D5. Will have a look at the Defender out of curiosity, but I doubt it will win my heart over. My next choice will be a D5.

    Agree its a D5 - even the front bumper gives it away. I had the D5. Brilliant vehicle but #### I used to ### about making its interior dirty especially when raining and muddy. For such a big vehicle I also averaged 7.8ltrs down to CT doing 120 to 130km/h and the usual bursts of speed to pass other vehicles.


    D-tox - I agree its very nice and why I sold my D5 and why I am still more than likely going to buy one.....waiting for the excitement to die down and the test drive........
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  2. #82
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    Quote Originally Posted by Byron View Post
    Of course you can make things work but why the admin of doing that when there are better suited vehicles?
    That's true - but its a balance right? Do you want a vehicle dedicated to overlanding? Or do you want a car to use every day and also for the occasional trip? If its the latter you may be willing to compromise on a few things for overlanding if it ticks all your boxes as a daily driver.

    That's why I say each persons use case is different.
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  4. #83
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    And that is why I tried to use an overlander and a off tar holiday to differentiate them.
    BruceT
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  5. #84
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    Quote Originally Posted by D-tox View Post
    I recon with the Grenadier soon to be present, LR will do a face lift in a drastic way (read model upgrade) similar to what happend to the new Jimny, the the Defender will look "the part"

    the new model is quite nice though..
    Except the new Jimny went backwards according to many.

    I think the Grenadier is going to be sold to a small niche market and it will not affect the sales of the New Defender. i would be very scared to buy one until I see the back up and whether the company lasts.
    Last edited by BruceT; 2020/07/07 at 02:44 PM.
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  7. #85
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceT View Post
    And that is why I tried to use an overlander and a off tar holiday to differentiate them.
    I realised after posting that it now seemed like I was agreeing with you

    Theoretically there is nothing stopping someone with lots of money from stripping out a new Defender and turning it into a dedicated overlander. Probably not the most cost effective but it could be done
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  9. #86
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceT View Post
    Except the new Jimny went backwards according to many.

    I think the Grenadier is going to be sold to a small niche market and it will not affect the sales of the New Defender.
    Agreed - I also thing peoples eyes are going to water when they see the price of the Grenadier. It will not be cheap to produce a vehicle like that in small production volumes.
    Last edited by PaulMark; 2020/07/07 at 02:54 PM. Reason: Typos
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  11. #87
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    Haha. yes and then the complaints will come and it will be pulled apart.

    I bet the New Defender will be amazing off road and out perform my 130 and any other old standard Defender off road but it will loose on the practicality side to all old defenders.
    BruceT
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    Definitely keen to get one of those in a few years time with my Lotto winnings !!!
    Last edited by SwaziRic; 2020/07/07 at 05:49 PM.

  13. #89
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    The new Defender is a great looker. It has arrived in Nelspruit but I question whether it would not be a better option to buy one of the D4's coming on the market. The D4 has definitely got a better entrance and wider to the boot area and a bigger boot volume. All other dimension seem similar. The Defender would probably have more updated technology. What a hard choice. Maybe 2nd hand low mileage 2017 G'wagen then there will not be any regrets after all.
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  14. #90
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    Have a look here compare the New Defender to the Discovery 4... Discovery 4 bigger ?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2fBTD12YtQ

  15. #91
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    For me a Defender is a work horse, something you would expect to see on a farm in the highlands of Scotland, or on some dust road in Africa.
    The new Defender is now geared for the Luxury car market, the Evoques and Range Rovers class, and even if you can convince someone to buy it, it at the expense of though LR luxury models.
    The new Defender should of been stripped of technology and comfort, should of been pushed for reliability and a lower competive price.

    For someone who wants a work horse, an expedition vehicle or to simply tow a horse trailer /fishing boat to some far off rugged destination then LR is no longer an option, for someone who wants a luxury vehicle fill of gadgets that will never see a dirt road, then new Defender is for you, so is the Evoque, so is the range rover, and a dozens other vehicles from a dozen other manufactorers.

    Just look at Dakar - LR can no longer compete as don't have a Defender, look at UK military - LR were always used as the main work horse support vehicle, now gone, look at Kenya police that in the past used LR Defenders, can you now see the Kenya government giving the police force the new Defender.

  16. #92
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    Quote Originally Posted by john, Defender View Post
    For me a Defender is a work horse, something you would expect to see on a farm in the highlands of Scotland, or on some dust road in Africa.
    The new Defender is now geared for the Luxury car market, the Evoques and Range Rovers class, and even if you can convince someone to buy it, it at the expense of though LR luxury models.
    The new Defender should of been stripped of technology and comfort, should of been pushed for reliability and a lower competive price.

    For someone who wants a work horse, an expedition vehicle or to simply tow a horse trailer /fishing boat to some far off rugged destination then LR is no longer an option, for someone who wants a luxury vehicle fill of gadgets that will never see a dirt road, then new Defender is for you, so is the Evoque, so is the range rover, and a dozens other vehicles from a dozen other manufactorers.

    Just look at Dakar - LR can no longer compete as don't have a Defender, look at UK military - LR were always used as the main work horse support vehicle, now gone, look at Kenya police that in the past used LR Defenders, can you now see the Kenya government giving the police force the new Defender.
    Highly unlikely at R1.0 mil a pop.

    I took a look at one in the dealer at Menlyn and its size is quite deceptive. A lot bigger in the flesh. The inside is awesome. The outside, well I reserve the right to not comment, I remember what a backlash I got from the LR guys when I called the Disco 5 fugly....and no, im not saying its fugly at all. I just cant put my finger on it yet.
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  17. #93
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    My 130 doing duty alongside the new rugrats ... so far it has more thumbs up and had a few offers

    Had a good look at the undercarriage without having to getting level with grevel ...

    IMHO the New Defender is an absolutely stunning vehicle and will be a winner for JLR ✔️

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  19. #94
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    So I finally got to drive the New Defender in Stellenbosch.
    I have to declare that I am a firm believer that this is the real Discovery 5 so
    my comments are based on the comparison to the Discovery 4 and not the old Defender:
    Green Flags
    • Great exterior, imposing on the road, elevated ride height
    • Bigger than what I expected, wide , bold and high
    • Interior practical, elegant, progressive and lots of electronics
    • Doors closed solid, great legroom at the back, many USB charge points
    • Instruments new age, plenty of storing space at co-driver side, spacious
    • Smooth gearbox, great braking ability, smooth and responsive ride
    • Air suspension silky smooth and ride height adjustment significant
    • Electronic 4wd adjustments top of its class
    Red Flags
    • Distinctive 2 litre engine roar. I really missed the 3 litre V6 growl
    • Responsive, but not as dynamic as the current V6 diesel
    • Legroom at the back not adjustable in 5 seater configuration, so a lot
    of space is wasted, especially for younger families
    • Rear luggage space very limited, and the rear seats cannot shift upright, so that
    takes more space away from the rear luggage compartment
    • Wind noise will be considerable once optional packs are added
    • I am not sure about this vehicle’s ability to tow an off road caravan on
    the Sandridge road to Savuti. That 2 litre will have a tough time me thinks


    Overall impression
    I stand with my personal view that this is the new Discovery 5. The vehicle is really impressive but I did not get the butterflies I was expecting. Land Rover can call the current Discovery 5 the Velar X and call the current smaller Velar, the Velar Sport. I personally cannot see that the current Defender market will jump at the chance to purchase the New Defender, I think it will probably take on the market of the Discovery 4 and 5 drivers. I am led to believe that in 2021 they will introduce the 3 litre V6 , so I will bide my time until then.
    But these are just my own , biased views
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  21. #95
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    Quote Originally Posted by FransBR View Post
    • I am not sure about this vehicle’s ability to tow an off road caravan on
    the Sandridge road to Savuti. That 2 litre will have a tough time me thinks
    Or just get the P400..
    . With 295KW on tap, I dont think there's ANYTHING that it won't be able to tow...

  22. #96
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    Quote Originally Posted by john, Defender View Post
    For me a Defender is a work horse, something you would expect to see on a farm in the highlands of Scotland, or on some dust road in Africa.
    The new Defender is now geared for the Luxury car market, the Evoques and Range Rovers class, and even if you can convince someone to buy it, it at the expense of though LR luxury models.
    The new Defender should of been stripped of technology and comfort, should of been pushed for reliability and a lower competive price.

    For someone who wants a work horse, an expedition vehicle or to simply tow a horse trailer /fishing boat to some far off rugged destination then LR is no longer an option, for someone who wants a luxury vehicle fill of gadgets that will never see a dirt road, then new Defender is for you, so is the Evoque, so is the range rover, and a dozens other vehicles from a dozen other manufactorers.

    Just look at Dakar - LR can no longer compete as don't have a Defender, look at UK military - LR were always used as the main work horse support vehicle, now gone, look at Kenya police that in the past used LR Defenders, can you now see the Kenya government giving the police force the new Defender.
    No one can compete in the Dakar unless they spend Millions on the car
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  24. #97
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceT View Post
    Eish you guys are really harsh with each others vehicles. Forget about the looks as that is all related to taste for now. (ps. i think it looks awesome!) Also you can not compare this to the old Defender. Its in a whole other class and is clearly not aimed at hardened 4x4ers or traditional Defender owners, who dont spend money on new, more modern vehicles - in most cases anyway.

    My opinion has changed a little maybe due to having too much time over the last 3 months.

    For the sake of argument, lets just say overlanding is extended self reliant, off the grid travel where very little time is spent in official campsites and solar is required to keep your power requirements - say 4 weeks plus where you have to carry all your food, drinking water and fuel. Lets say a week or three in Botswana, Namibia, Zim, etc in official campsites and reserves is an "off tar holiday".

    Here is my take as a full on Landy fan who does a fair amount of overlanding and off the tar holidays, who may or may not still be buying one. I have owned, several defenders as well as D1, D3, D4 (x2), D5 and done Overlanding as well as off tar holidays in all of them to a certain extent.


    The New Defender is very nice. It is now, in my mind, a luxury 4x4 with some basic, practical features, like rubber flooring instead of carpet etc. Its also got some really nice electronic gadgetry and based on all other LR models with similar suspension it will drive really well. It will eat up those long boring roads in pure comfort. And it will tow better than the old Defender.

    Packing space is a problem though. I would say possibly the same or slightly smaller than a D4 but this could be because of the boot/door design? On the 110, if you fit a fridge I would say you have taken almost 50% of your boot space. Similar to a D4. For water and extra fuel you would have to either carry containers on the roof or inside of the vehicle somewhere - I dont believe auxiliary tanks can be fitted. If you are into very basic camping or pulling a trailer then you would not need to worry about packing space. Buying, collecting and carrying wood will be a concern with the OEM LR roof rack, and access to the roof rack without the expensive seemingly weak OEM ladder will be difficult......... perhaps in time aftermarket companies will solve this.

    The New Defender will be as good if not better off road compared to a D4. If I get one I will not use it on some of our trips where paint maybe scratched but I do have a 130 that I am trying to make into an Overlander. So for a well known example, traveling from Nossob to Mabau along the Boso trail, in some areas you are driving on a winding track where bushes are very close to the edge of the road and will scratch all vehicles using that route......I have seen Disco's fortuners etc traveling there so, its able to do the route but whether you are willing or not? ....... it will come down to how you like to look after your car. Then to carry all the provisions for a trip to mabua, will be a problem unless towing something. remember working out of water or fuel containers strapped to the roof is only good for off the tar holidays and not for Overlanding.

    Thats not to say the New Defender is not capable as I would say its probably more capable than a D4?

    I would fit the New Defender into the same league as a Toyota 200 series, D4, Prado/fortuner for traveling - although it will probably have far better off road ability. They are all brilliant 4x4's and brilliant for off the tar holidays but they are not overland vehicles.

    Look at the launch or thing they did in Namibia. It showed exactly how the vehicles will be used....... Apart from maybe carrying basic things and a couple carrying 40ltr engels, which i guess was packed for the day rather than the week, they didnt carry much. They also drove from lodge to lodge, or tented camps. They did not have to carry food, drinks, water, extra fuel etc.

    My guess is that the new defender is going to sell like hot cakes (without taking into account economies crashing due to Covid). It will take away sales from the D5. The New Defender will mostly be sold into a new market segment and mostly to people who have either moved on from the old Defender or to people who have never owned a Defender - exactly what LR needed to achieve. I think it will become a new craze, and sold to people who like Rubicons, cross fit and mountain bikes, and the odd off the tar holiday.
    Another negative is, it no longer has an iconic long lasting shape and will see many changes every 5 to 7 years like all other vehicle on the market, and will not stand out from the crowd, like Disco Sport, D5, and Range rover to a certain extent.......... but it will retain superior off road ability and gizmo's keeping with the Defender name.

    Perhaps the New 130 will become the New Overlander? The New 110 is brilliant for off the tar holidays but is not an Overlander.

    Now to go back to the vehicles Ive owned, they were all brilliant vehicles and I really enjoyed all of them for various reasons, but now that Im back in a Defender, I am more excited about Overlanding than I have been in a long time. Maybe I am reinfected with the Defender virus.

    Play nice.
    Bruce you tend to forget , we are Europeans , explorers , we will explorer in style ( read Defenders ) and we will have Africans ( read Toyota’s ) carrying al the messy stuff , ala Livingston
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  26. #98
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    Saw one of the new Defenders in the flesh over the weekend. Was quite taken aback by how ugly it is. It looks like a cash-in-transit van. To each his own, I guess.

  27. #99
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    Went to look at one on Saturday.

    Was disappointed. After I sat in it I did not even drive it. The B pillar encroached on my shoulder. Not as bad as an original defender but a D4 and D5 is definitely a much more comfortable place to sit. When the going gets rough a little bit of room can save bruises. I know a D4 can do everything I want which is a car that can cruise the worst Nam and Bots can throw at me as I take my family on holiday.

    Also the space was disappointing. In a D4 and D5 you can put three 6"(1.83m) adults one behind the other. WIth the centre seat right back there is no room for feet. A 1980's 911 had more room in the back seat. My 12 year old daughter made herself comfortable with the middle row just touching her knees then in the middle row she just fits behind me as aa driver. So the third row is a +2 occasional seat only.

    In the D4 going on holiday my grumpy eldest son now 21 gets one of the back seats. The other 2 kids each get an outer middle row and there is tons of space in between to pack the luggage. with the fridge between the the middle row seats. This would not be an option in the new Defender.

    Few cars beat the all around ability of a Discovery and the interior space offered by this New Defender leaves it lagging.

    I know I am lloking for a late model D4 or possibly a D5 instead.

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  29. #100
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    Default Re: New Defender arrived today

    I can't say I have done a proper survey, but I think you will really battle to beat the packing space of a D3/D4.

    Maybe the D4 can be for overlands and expeditions and the New Defender can be used for the daily runaround, shopping, and fetching the kids?
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