DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover - Page 4





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  1. #61
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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    Having travelled 149,000 Km in our last 3 big trips I can say that Land Rovers make up about 5-10% of the vehicles we've seen around South America, Africa, and Australia. Used to be 75%, and there's a good reason for this. Experience of friends with LRs has not been good. I would happily get a LR (old one) as a hobby vehicle, although I'd get a Willys Jeep first, and an old LC next, and the LR last, however as a vehicle to take travelling, I wouldn't even consider one.

    My first Pajero was in Congo and it was OK but the track was less than that of the Patrol with which I replaced it and which was excellent (much better). We've owned or used a variety of other vehicles in between however now have a "Big" Pajero - 3.8L V6 - actually a Montero (you wouldn't want to try to sell a "Pajero" in Latin America ...). It's excellent - rugged, reliable, capable, and half the price (here) of a Land Cruiser. Used it for a couple of years in Sputh America and took it to Australia for 9 months last year - zero problems!

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  3. #62
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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    Not sure that Pajero clearance isnt fairly (very) limiting and Ive heard acquiring spares is a religious process but otherwise they seem good.
    Most reliable Landrovers are D2, D1 and Defenders ... and most reliable engines 200TDI, 300TDI , simple V8s and TD5s ... probably in that order.
    If you go LR , I’d say go for a Defender with a fully recon 300TDi.
    LandRovers have more space and are a way of life and you are part of a fraternity ...
    To own a Defender is to belong to the most exclusive club there is.
    Pajero s ... what can I say ... more comfortable, more modern in most ways and very well built ... but to me just a car.
    Last edited by BushNomad; 2020/06/27 at 08:13 AM.
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  5. #63
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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    So Chas, every statement you made about the Pajero was based on actual vehicle ownership over many years?
    2014 Pajero 3.2DiD SWB

  6. #64
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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisWright View Post
    Hey all.

    So the hunt is on for a vehicle. Opinions by yourselves (the experts) are truly welcome.

    Some may remember about 18 months ago I was driving a LR F2 and had the opportunity of buying it (81k mileage - think it was a 2011) and your guys input was extremely valuable. In the end - decided not to take it and to be honest was a small blessing at the time.

    The hunt is on again, and looking to replace with a good vehicle, thatís lasts. Iím basically more interested in the engine, and getting the maximum out of it, whilst of course looking after it.

    I like Land Rovers - but always have had a vision and belief that the best place for a Land Rover is on the back of a flatbed. When there seems to be an issue, ITS AND ISSUE, and not something a bush mechanic could sort out stuck in the middle of the Kalahari with a welding torch, acacia thorns and some dung. And landy issues seem to be helluva expensive.

    The question is simple - LAND ROVER or PAJERO SPORT.

    Pajero 2008 to 2012 ish. A friend suggested they Pajero as he bought an older one and loved it.

    PS - Iím a Toyota fan, or maybe was.

    Any pertinent info on service related costs at minor / major intervals and other areas to look out for - please let me know, and any particular year / engine to look out for?

    Thanks, and hopefully can join you gents in KZN for a little get together in near future.
    Reading this OP again and unpacking the themes in it, your only real option is the Mitsubishi because youíre looking for longevity and reasonably priced repairs and spares etc.

    However, and this coming from a long time Pajero owner, I would also say to you that looking at a Fortuner is also a very good idea although you wonít get the same bang for buck as the Paj Sport when buying.
    2014 Pajero 3.2DiD SWB

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  8. #65
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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtG View Post
    So Chas, every statement you made about the Pajero was based on actual vehicle ownership over many years?
    ... not at all, young man, that’s why I limited my comments on Pajero s to the well known & obvious;
    maybe you, as a Pajero owner, should speak to those Pajero issues, I raise, that irk you;
    eg ground clearance, spares availability, engine sophistication/complexity etc ?
    Last edited by BushNomad; 2020/06/27 at 08:11 AM.
    ... Land Rover Owners dont idle long ...

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  9. #66
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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    Of the choice between the Land Rover and the Pajero, I will take the Patrol every time.

    The older Y60 4.2 square shapes 4.2 Petrol go for anything between R65 k to R100 k, the Y61 4.5s go for around R125 k and the 4.8s go for anything from R140 to R600k, depending on year model.

    The 4.2 diesels in Y60 and Y61 models are becoming extremely scarce and can fetch guite high prices. The 2005 and earlier 3.0 diesels are best left alone, their ECUs were wrong for local conditions. The later (2006 and later) Y61 3.0 diesels are going for anything from R150 to R500 or more for the last models.

    Patrols last forever, unless neglected or molested, most will do 1 million kms if looked after and serviced regularly.

    Your options are wide with the Patrol range and maintenance will not even come into the equation. You may even one day pass it on to your son!! (LOL!!)

    I will now sit back and wait for the fireworks from the unconverted heathens and naysayers.....

    LOL!

    LOL!

    LOL!

    Try as they may, they will not be able to prove my facts wrong.

    Just read Petri's post on Greens and Olive, his two recent purchases of two 4.5 Patrols at very affordable prices. He was not exactly a Patrol fan, but today, after owning and driving these two, he is a total Patrol convert.

    Ask him for his opinion....
    Last edited by mvcoller; 2020/06/27 at 09:24 AM.
    Malcolm van Coller - retired 2013 but remained in Johannesburg (maybe will look at moving south, Robertson or Wellington type of town, once the wife retires)
    2011 Nissan Pathfinder 2,5 CDi LE Manual (with front Lokka) - My Platkar...
    2008 Nissan Patrol 3.0 TDi GL with front Lokka (Use it mainly for Safari business)
    2003 Bushwakka Shorti (with 160 H/Moon Stargazer RTT and 100 lt water tanks)
    Ex 1999 Nissan Terrano 2.7 TDi
    Ex 2011 Conqueror Supra II
    Ex 1995 GQ Patrol GLX 3 speed Auto
    Ex 1984 Nissan Safari 2.8 Station wagon with 5 speed conversion,
    Ex 1995 Sani 3.0 V6 Exec
    Ex 1994 Venture 2200 with lock diff (Company vehicle).
    Many 4x4s in National Service (Landies, Jeeps, Willys, Bedfords, Unimogs and Buffels)

  10. #67
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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    Quote Originally Posted by mvcoller View Post
    Of the choice between the Land Rover and the Pajero, I will take the Patrol every time.

    The older Y60 4.2 square shapes 4.2 Petrol go for anything between R65 k to R100 k, the Y61 4.5s go for around R125 k and the 4.8s go for anything from R140 to R400k.

    The 4.2 diesels in Y60 and Y61 models are becoming extremely scarce and can fetch guite high prices. The 2005 and earlier 3.0 diesels are best left alone, their ECUs were wtong for local conditions. The later (2005 and later) Y61 3.0 diesels are going for anything from R150 to R500 or more for the last models.

    Patrols last forever, unless neglected or molested, most will do 1 million kms if looked after and serviced regularly.

    Your options are wide with the Patrol range and maintenance will not even come into the equation. You may even one day pass it on to your son!! (LOL!!)

    I will now sit back and wait for the fireworks from the unconverted heathens and naysayers.....

    LOL!

    LOL!

    LOL!

    Try as they may, they will not be able to prove my facts wrong.

    Just read Petri's post on Greens and Olive, his two recent purchases of two 4.5 Patrols at very affordable prices. He was not exactly a Patrol fan, today he is a Patrol convert.

    Ask him for his opinion....
    ... Land Rover Owners dont idle long ...

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  11. #68
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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    Quote Originally Posted by BushNomad View Post
    ... not at all, young man, thatís why I limited my comments on Pajero s to the well known & obvious;
    maybe you, as a Pajero owner, should speak to those Pajero issues, I raise, that irk you;
    eg ground clearance, spares availability, engine sophistication/complexity etc ?
    In 8 years of owning a Pajero I havenít had any issues with spares. Yes the prices are high but so are the spares prices for my 2012 Accord. Hence my suggestion to reconsider Toyota.

    Ground clearance has never been an issue for me as I drive within the vehicleís capabilities and if the OP goes for the Sport (as he indicated) then itís a moot point because itís the same as any bakkie based SUV, in any case (ladder frame, rear solid axle) and better than the larger LWB Gen4.

    Engine is bulletproof and very refined for what it is, a large 4-cylinder turbo diesel) and certainly a lot more refined and powerful than your Defender.

    Thatís about it.
    2014 Pajero 3.2DiD SWB

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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtG View Post
    In 8 years of owning a Pajero I havenít had any issues with spares. Yes the prices are high but so are the spares prices for my 2012 Accord. Hence my suggestion to reconsider Toyota.

    Ground clearance has never been an issue for me as I drive within the vehicleís capabilities and if the OP goes for the Sport (as he indicated) then itís a moot point because itís the same as any bakkie based SUV, in any case (ladder frame, rear solid axle) and better than the larger LWB Gen4.

    Engine is bulletproof and very refined for what it is, a large 4-cylinder turbo diesel) and certainly a lot more refined and powerful than your Defender.

    Thatís about it.
    The "engine sophistication" confused me.
    Is the Mitsu engine not sophisticated or too sophisticated.
    When the Di-D engine was launched, it was state of the art. Evolutions through the years kept it up to the rest.
    It's reliability is legendary.

    It amases me how somebody who has not owned a vehicle, can shoot it down in flames.

    I have not owned eg Land Rover or Toyota, so I reserve my opinion on them.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" - Martin Luther king Jr

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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    Quote Originally Posted by BushNomad View Post
    ... not at all, young man, thatís why I limited my comments on Pajero s to the well known & obvious;
    maybe you, as a Pajero owner, should speak to those Pajero issues, I raise, that irk you;
    eg ground clearance, spares availability, engine sophistication/complexity etc ?
    As far as engine sophistication and complexity goes, it's the year 2020. The Pajero 3.2 has been around for over twenty years now, in common rail form for over ten years and is still available new. The Tdi's and TD5's are dinosaurs for the enthusiast rather than for peace of mind overlanding.
    2001 Gen 3 Pajero swb 3.2 Di-D

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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    Patrols are good solid cars, But they are donkey slow and heavy on juice, one at a good price is 20 years old and with high mileage, did I mention the Box shape is ugly?
    Jeep Grand Cherokee? Dont let me start, not even an option
    LR? well, you saw here that even some LR guys says buy the Pajero.
    Buy the Pajero, its the best between the lot reliability wise, and performs well off road. The IFS suspension also gives a much better ride than the DISCO 2 or Patrol
    The super select 4wd is also a winner
    Last edited by Bostokkelos; 2020/06/27 at 09:36 AM.

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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    Quote Originally Posted by Jens78 View Post
    As far as engine sophistication and complexity goes, it's the year 2020. The Pajero 3.2 has been around for over twenty years now, in common rail form for over ten years and is still available new. The Tdi's and TD5's are dinosaurs for the enthusiast rather than for peace of mind overlanding.

    ja, what he said

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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    ... and there I was seriously thinking I was being quite complimentary about Pajero s !
    ... even on re-reading my post ; but it does appear I have upset the sensitive Pajero Squad ! Unintended.
    Horses for courses.
    I stand by my opinion and rest my case aficionados !
    Last edited by BushNomad; 2020/06/27 at 09:53 AM.
    ... Land Rover Owners dont idle long ...

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  18. #74
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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    Quote Originally Posted by Bostokkelos View Post
    Patrols are good solid cars, But they are donkey slow and heavy on juice, one at a good price is 20 years old and with high mileage
    Only the 4.2 NA is slow, the rest can sit above the speed limit all day long, how much faster do you want to go? It is an offroader, not a street racer... The 4.2 TD is quick enough and as with the 3.0 Di, 3.0 CRDi gives fuel consunption of 8 to 11km per litre on the open road, not bad for a spacious, large heavy vehicle...

    Yes, the 4.2, 4.5 and 4.8 Petrol engines use more fuel, between 4.5 and 7 km/lt, but if you get it for R100k less than a comparative vehicle, it will take you 10 years to save the extra R100k you spent to catch up what you saved on the Patrol, despite its heavier consumption.

    Despite that, any of the large, big engine competitor vehicles (4lt V6 Toyota Hulux/Fortuner and Nissan Navara/Pathfinder, Land Cruiser 6 cyl & V8, Older Pajero V6, LR V8, FJ Cruiser) all give the same type of fuel consumption.

    High mileage? What would that be? 300k or 400k km. At that mileage the Patrol's engine has hardly been run in. Ask Dungbeetle here on the Forum about the trouble free 850,000 km he has done on his Patrol and the many others whose Patrols are still going as well as when new, even at 500k km plus...

    That UGLY box shape (Y60) is the ICON of the Patrol range, but there are more of the later (Y61) versions available than of the box shape if you do not like the box shape......

    And what do you expect this good price to be, already you can get a low mileage Patrol for R100k cheaper that it's direct opposition. Is that not already good enough price?

    Compare the prices of say 5 or 6 different decent large offroad vehicles, say of the 2010 year model. The Patrol will give you much more "bang for you buck" than any of the others.
    Why is the Nissan's price so low? - Unfortunately it is purely due to Nissan SA's poor marketing.
    In Australia and Europe it is considered a tough, sought after 4x4, even those that are 20 or 25 years old. There is just no end to them,,,

    .

    And other than an accident damaged Patrol, I have never seen one on the back of a Flatbed Recovery vehicle.....

    .
    Last edited by mvcoller; 2020/06/27 at 10:25 AM.
    Malcolm van Coller - retired 2013 but remained in Johannesburg (maybe will look at moving south, Robertson or Wellington type of town, once the wife retires)
    2011 Nissan Pathfinder 2,5 CDi LE Manual (with front Lokka) - My Platkar...
    2008 Nissan Patrol 3.0 TDi GL with front Lokka (Use it mainly for Safari business)
    2003 Bushwakka Shorti (with 160 H/Moon Stargazer RTT and 100 lt water tanks)
    Ex 1999 Nissan Terrano 2.7 TDi
    Ex 2011 Conqueror Supra II
    Ex 1995 GQ Patrol GLX 3 speed Auto
    Ex 1984 Nissan Safari 2.8 Station wagon with 5 speed conversion,
    Ex 1995 Sani 3.0 V6 Exec
    Ex 1994 Venture 2200 with lock diff (Company vehicle).
    Many 4x4s in National Service (Landies, Jeeps, Willys, Bedfords, Unimogs and Buffels)

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  20. #75
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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    Quote Originally Posted by BushNomad View Post
    ... and there I was seriously thinking I was being quite complimentary about Pajero s !
    ... even on re-reading my post ; but it does appear I have upset the sensitive Pajero Squad ! Unintended.
    Horses for courses.
    I stand by my opinion and rest my case aficionados !
    I certainly didn't take any offense! My only gripe was with your 'sophistication, complexity' statement. That's the type of opinion we used to have in the '80's and 90's about new 4x4's! But nobody can ignore Malcolm's suggestions about the Patrol, they are great!
    2001 Gen 3 Pajero swb 3.2 Di-D

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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    Quote Originally Posted by mvcoller View Post
    Only the 4.2 NA is slow, the rest can sit above the speed limit all day long, how much faster do you want to go? It is an offroader, not a street racer... The 4.2 TD is quick enough and as with the 3.0 Di, 3.0 CRDi gives fuel consunption of 8 to 11km per litre on the open road, not bad for a spacious, large heavy vehicle...

    Yes, the 4.2, 4.5 and 4.8 Petrol engines use more fuel, between 4.5 and 7 km/lt, but if you get it for R100k less than a comparative vehicle, it will take you 10 years to save the extra R100k you spent to catch up what you saved on the Patrol, despite its heavier consumption.

    Despite that, any of the large, big engine competitor vehicles (4lt V6 Toyota Hulux/Fortuner and Nissan Navara/Pathfinder, Land Cruiser 6 cyl & V8, Older Pajero V6, LR V8, FJ Cruiser) all give the same type of fuel consumption.

    High mileage? What would that be? 300k or 400k km. At that mileage the Patrol's engine has hardly been run in. Ask Dungbeetle here on the Forum about the trouble free 850,000 km he has done on his Patrol and the many others whose Patrols are still going as well as when new, even at 500k km plus...

    That UGLY box shape (Y60) is the ICON of the Patrol range, but there are more of the later (Y61) versions available than of the box shape if you do not like the box shape......

    And what do you expect this good price to be, already you can get a low mileage Patrol for R100k cheaper that it's direct opposition. Is that not already good enough price?

    .

    And other than an accident damaged Patrol, I have never seen one on the back of a Flatbed Recovery vehicle.....

    .

    Uncle Malcolm, we all know you vote Nissan All day long, as would I vote Pajero. Thing is,I actually like Patrols, still cant decide which Non Pajero I like most, the Cruiser 105 or the Y 61 Patrol. I owned three Nissan and 2 Audis three Mercs, a Ford and a Land Rover Disco 2. and Three Mitsubishi's. The only two brands never giving trouble is the Mits and Nissans except for the One Xtrail my wife drove, its gearbox went on 7700km. I have driven 705 000 km in three Mitsubishi 3.2's trouble free, So I am a Nissan fan (a little), but I still believe the Pajero offers more for the money ITO Comfort, year model and fuel consumption. The only Nissans I dont like is the newer ones with Renault motors. But back on topic,

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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    Quote Originally Posted by Jens78 View Post
    I certainly didn't take any offense! My only gripe was with your 'sophistication, complexity' statement. That's the type of opinion we used to have in the '80's and 90's about new 4x4's! But nobody can ignore Malcolm's suggestions about the Patrol, they are great!
    As far as I know, sophistication and complexity are not always ideal if in remote areas or over-landing ... an aspect often directed at D3s and later land-rovers !

    Patrols Ďare greatí and far better comparative competitors to the older Land Rover models,
    though, to my thinking, generally bulkier and heavier on fuel.
    Very different to Pajero Sports.
    ... Land Rover Owners dont idle long ...

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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    Quote Originally Posted by Bostokkelos View Post
    Uncle Malcolm, we all know you vote Nissan All day long, as would I vote Pajero. Thing is,I actually like Patrols, still cant decide which Non Pajero I like most, the Cruiser 105 or the Y 61 Patrol. I owned three Nissan and 2 Audis three Mercs, a Ford and a Land Rover Disco 2. and Three Mitsubishi's. The only two brands never giving trouble is the Mits and Nissans except for the One Xtrail my wife drove, its gearbox went on 7700km. I have driven 705 000 km in three Mitsubishi 3.2's trouble free, So I am a Nissan fan (a little), but I still believe the Pajero offers more for the money ITO Comfort, year model and fuel consumption. The only Nissans I dont like is the newer ones with Renault motors. But back on topic,

    I agree with you, none of your list of previous vehicles, or any other vehicle sold today are bad vehicles. OK some give trouble more than others, but my argument and choice is based on:
    1. "Bang for Buck",
    2. expected life left in the vehicle,
    3. in combination with chance of breaking down on a trip in the middle of the bush!!

    I am not saying the Nissans never give issues on trips, I have had a wheel bearing go in Botswana, and in the little town of Lethlakanje I managed to find the correct new spares (inner & outer wheel bearings) for my 1999 2.7 TDi Terrano's front wheel (same as the late 1980s D21 Hardbody & current (2020) NP300) and in 4 hours I was back on the road.

    I even managed to get the Terrano serviced at an accredited Nissan dealership (Multi Franchise - Nissan, Toyota Mazda & possibly Ford iirc) in Malawi.

    Spares for Nissan have never been a problem on my trips, I even got a new air filter for my 2008 3.0Di Patrol in Zimbabwe (Vic Falls) after the dust in Hwange (after 3 weeks in Namibia and the CKGR) totally clogged it up.

    Yes, so spares availability is important as well... it is not about the one being a superior vehicle, but the best for all circumstances....

    Can all the mentioned vehicles (in all their variations) claim that?
    Last edited by mvcoller; 2020/06/27 at 11:00 AM.
    Malcolm van Coller - retired 2013 but remained in Johannesburg (maybe will look at moving south, Robertson or Wellington type of town, once the wife retires)
    2011 Nissan Pathfinder 2,5 CDi LE Manual (with front Lokka) - My Platkar...
    2008 Nissan Patrol 3.0 TDi GL with front Lokka (Use it mainly for Safari business)
    2003 Bushwakka Shorti (with 160 H/Moon Stargazer RTT and 100 lt water tanks)
    Ex 1999 Nissan Terrano 2.7 TDi
    Ex 2011 Conqueror Supra II
    Ex 1995 GQ Patrol GLX 3 speed Auto
    Ex 1984 Nissan Safari 2.8 Station wagon with 5 speed conversion,
    Ex 1995 Sani 3.0 V6 Exec
    Ex 1994 Venture 2200 with lock diff (Company vehicle).
    Many 4x4s in National Service (Landies, Jeeps, Willys, Bedfords, Unimogs and Buffels)

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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    Quote Originally Posted by BushNomad View Post
    Not sure that Pajero clearance isnt fairly (very) limiting and Ive heard acquiring spares is a religious process but otherwise they seem good.
    Most reliable Landrovers are D2, D1 and Defenders ... and most reliable engines 200TDI, 300TDI , simple V8s and TD5s ... probably in that order.
    If you go LR , Iíd say go for a Defender with a fully recon 300TDi.
    LandRovers have more space and are a way of life and you are part of a fraternity ...
    To own a Defender is to belong to the most exclusive club there is.
    Pajero s ... what can I say ... more comfortable, more modern in most ways and very well built ... but to me just a car.

    "exclusive" in what respect? I can think of both flattering and un-flattering reasons



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  26. #80
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    Default Re: DEBATE: Pajero vs Land Rover

    Quote Originally Posted by hatjohan View Post
    "exclusive" in what respect? I can think of both flattering and un-flattering reasons
    ... flatter me ... !
    ... Land Rover Owners dont idle long ...

    2002 Defender 130 DC HCPU. : Own the road...Any road
    Ď1981 R-Rvr Classic 2-Dr 3.5L V8... The Greatest Rover.
    Ď1975 Series3 88 PUP... Simply Classic...
    Ď2017 Metalian Mini ... A Home from Home

    * The Monarch of the Glen *http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...1&d=1507751251

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