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  1. #121
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy529 View Post
    One thing I'm still struggling to get my head around is how to size a battery bank in a hybrid system after you got the inverter and PV array sorted.
    Too small and the inverter won't be happy plus you'll cycle too low every day or use to much grid, and trying to go too big will obviously cost a lot of money.
    So I guess a balance between not cycling too low every day while still keeping enough capacity for LS, but yet being able to fully charge the bank every day using PV?
    Menere vertel ons asb.
    Yes, that is a very tough question to answer.

    Let me share my experiences.

    I was a proponent for smaller battery bank with a grid tied inverter. So I did that.
    1) Limitted the max DOD to 20% / SOC of 80% and lowered the max charge amps.
    2) Tried setting the batts to always Keep Charged, pushed up the charge amps a bit.

    Two things came to light:
    1) I was over straining the batts when system runs normally by pushing up the charge amps, keeping them charged.
    2) Risk of inverter damage, I quote on asking a dealer about a smaller battery bank:
    "Dit kan, die battery se maks stroom is waarskynlik te klein en die kans dat die battery self oop stoombaan veroorsaak is goed.
    As dit gebeur en die reguleerders of omsetter seermaak is dit nie ‘n waarborg eis nie. (Victron sal gewoonlik nie seerkry nie maar dit kan gebeur)
    Saam met die regte beskerming soos die VenusGX is die kans dat dit die battery se waarborg gaan affekteer egter ook daar."

    (By the way, apparently this applies to ALL inverters.)

    This is how it works:
    You need to match the amps the batteries can be charge at, to the batts ah, say you have a 100ah 48v bank, maks 15amps charge right?
    Now you set the inverter/VenusGX to the max 15amps charging, yet you have a 5kva inverter.
    The 5kv can charge up to 70amps right?
    So when you limit the DC side of the inverter to maks 15amps, the entire DC side is throttled to 15amps, and you cannot get to the full 4000w AC out the other side, that the 5kva can deliver.

    It literally drops on what it feeds into the house.

    Alternative is by setting the max output the inverter can deliver, to the banks maks amps i.e. 100ah battery you set the inverter to say wot, i.e. 1000w maks? And remember to lower the charge amps still, or you will cook the batts.

    Both the above limits the inverters potential, because of protecting the maks amps on the DC side, to match the small batts.

    GoodWE for exmaple, on a 2.4kwh Pylontech bank (50ah 48v bank), I'm told limits the inverter automatically.


    Where does the straining come in:
    I set my small bank to "Keep Charged" and lifted the charge amps to better use the system overall.
    This resulted in 30amps going "over" the batteries, 15amps too much.

    Forward to today:
    The above was on lead acid batteries, where you limit the charge amps / overall system DC amps.
    Book says on 5kva ideally it should be 200ah bank min.
    Today I have a 150ah lithium bank, and lithiums can take the maks of 70amps charging. Volts being the killer on lithiums, not the amps.
    And the BMS assists too.

    If I was off-grid, I would not rely on 51v 150ah 7.6kWh battery bank. I would have at least double that.


    Hope this makes sense ...
    Last edited by the_terrible_triplett; 2020/06/18 at 01:30 PM.
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  2. #122
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerlach View Post
    Daar is n din lyn daar ja, maar dis waar die voordeel van Lithium/Lifepo4 in kom. TTT sal kan saam inspring hier. Met lead acids moet jy taamlik PV setup he as jy die batterye wil charge en loads hardloop. Lead acids vat langer im vol te raak bo langs. Dis waar die voordeel van Lithium/Lifepo4 in kom. Hulle charging rate is ongelooflik vinnig. Wens ek kan n video post hier om te wys hoe vinnig die amps in gaan om die AH op te bou.

    So voordeel is, kleiner solar array setup so jy bespaar daar. Voordeel van Lifepo4s ook kan jy baie dieper in cycle, tot 90%, waar lead acids n ander storie is. TTT sal meer daar kan gee. Ek proebeer nie onder 50% te gaan met my 7.2kw bank nie. Ek weet basies wat my avg gebruik in n aand is al. As my 2de bank aan die gang is na ek my 2de bms kry sal ek kyk hoe baie ek dan sal oor he in n aand se tyd en tot hoer ver ek sal kan gaan. Ek wil einde van die jaar 3de bank ook in sit. Dan weet ek is goed gecover. Ek gebruik so avg van tussen 60ah tot 70ah n aand, dis nou in die winter. Somer is dit minder, so tussen 45ah en 50ah.

    Ek en TTT het nou die dag uit werk, as jy byvoorbeeld moet 4 Pylontechs moet vat , die 3.5 units wat 3.2kw per unit gee, is dit basies 12.8kw en dit gaan jou so tussen R60k en R70k kos. Vir daai geld kan jy 4 pakke van 7.2kw diy Lifepo4s koop wat jou 28.8kw se krag gee. As jy bietjie jou game will op step kan jy kyk om n baie nice BMS ook in te bring wat die hele setup kam beheer. Met daai aantal stoor krag kan jy nogals ver kom sal ek se en jou paar jaar hou ook want dan cycle jy nie so diep in jou setup in nie.

    En die ander ding is, jy moet jou loads verspry ook, soos goed wat jy weet wat n klompie krag trek, daai hardloop jy deur die dag wanneer die son uit is, so dat die batterye reg is vir die aand om jou ander goed te doen wat nie konstant vir 10 tot 20min hoe krag gaan trek nie.


    Dankie, ek ken lithium, ek het 'n 13V 4KW Blue Nova en ja soos jy se dit is amazing. Volgens my is daar nie meer 'n ander manier as lithium. Net soos ek nooit weer sal hard drives koop net solid state, so sal ek nie weer lead acid koop vir eenige iets.
    Last edited by bigboy529; 2020/06/18 at 01:32 PM.
    It's in pubs where the world's greatest ideas begin.

  3. #123
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    So after reading and trying to understand what you guys are saying I'm still confused (Yes I am a bid stupid with regards solar home systems). I's something very new to me and I have to start investigating solar systems for our house as the wife said it's time. So my non technical question is, do you guys know a reputable company/person that can give me advice on a solar system and supply me with quality products. My biggest worry is spending allot of money on a system that wont last. I'm based in Pretoria.

    Is Bundu power perhaps any good?

  4. #124
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by JJP View Post
    So after reading and trying to understand what you guys are saying I'm still confused (Yes I am a bid stupid with regards solar home systems). I's something very new to me and I have to start investigating solar systems for our house as the wife said it's time. So my non technical question is, do you guys know a reputable company/person that can give me advice on a solar system and supply me with quality products. My biggest worry is spending allot of money on a system that wont last. I'm based in Pretoria.

    Is Bundu power perhaps any good?
    You get a good installer, doing their best on what you tell them, and afterwards the penny drops and you realise you could have gone another route.
    You get a good installer, who has more work than they can handle, they do the best they can as fast they can, installing more/or less than you needed.
    Or you get a installer that makes you want to kill someone when the penny drops.

    9/10 the installer is not the problem. The info they are given, is the problem.


    My advice, based on my own experiences (and originally from reputable installers), and what I have seen others go through over years, the best starting point ever is to first understand your power usage in your home.

    Next step is to reduce it without a solar system.
    Then to keep on managing that, that you keep on saving Eskom charges, as it may have lifestyle/habit changes.

    Once you and the wife understand your usage, specced your NEEDS and WANTS, THEN you take the next step and start asking questions, the right ones.

    For example:

    Putting your geyser on EV tubes, may be what you need for now.
    Or you may just need a UPS.
    Or you may be an ideal candidate for a grid-tied system.
    Or you may be an ideal candidate for a hybrid grid-tied system.
    Or you may need to spend monies on A++ devices ... that is expensive. T&C apply obviously.

    Without an intimate understanding of where your electricity costs goes towards, you are flying blind.


    A suggestion:
    I literally went to our main DB board, and switched every circuit off, when all was asleep.
    Then I made notes on what circuit goes where.
    More importantly, I noted what each circuits power usage was, when all was asleep.

    I found that THE biggest culprits where:
    1) Viper loads, nothing left on standby anymore. Switch. It. Off.
    2) Lights ... switch them off.
    3) And the worst culprit ... Alarm/clock radios in our case, after the geyser and old fridge/freezers.

    Next I bought a energy meter, downloaded the data into Excel and started watching what was potting overall.

    Then I affected savings where I could - whole new discussion that.

    Only THEN I started looking at solar options, knowing exactly where my usage is and why, what I can and cannot do and what loads I can move to daytime ... and all that.
    Last edited by the_terrible_triplett; 2020/06/18 at 02:19 PM.
    Political Correctness
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  5. #125
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by JJP View Post
    So my non technical question is, do you guys know a reputable company/person that can give me advice on a solar system and supply me with quality products. My biggest worry is spending allot of money on a system that wont last. I'm based in Pretoria.

    Is Bundu power perhaps any good?
    I think it has been stressed a number of times that before one start discussing solar you need to have data on your own useage. This is a major input. Once the value is known then one needs to look out the actual lifestyle and what one needs to cut as one moves to solar.

    Here is an example of my fridges. Before questions about the low value for 11-06. I forgot to switch my router on and my fridges were off for the most part of the day until we found some frozen veggies going soft. This is what we normally find would thaw quicker than meat.

    As TTT also indicated once you start getting data together one will find things eating up power and not used. In my case it was a laptop being idle for up to 2 months without being used. Then also a laser printer that keeps things warm for when you want to print. The printer used 1000W for a few seconds and it repeated itself every few minutes.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    With this data one can start having a chat with installers and get their input on what to use. Once items are listed one can look from who to buy as prices vary all the time. Don't be in a hurry to decide on a system. Get a 2nd or 3rd opinion and share the system. Here are a number of guys that will always try and help.

    Then there will always be choices to make. One of mine was do I add 2 more panels for my old fridge and use spare capacity of my inverter - cost = R3200 or do I buy a new inverter fridge R8 000. I decided on 2 more panels.
    Last edited by ekkekan; 2020/06/18 at 02:28 PM.

  6. #126
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by ekkekan View Post
    Then there will always be choices to make. One of mine was do I add 2 more panels for my old fridge and use spare capacity of my inverter - cost = R3200 or do I buy a new inverter fridge R8 000. I decided on 2 more panels.
    YES!!! There are those decisions too!


    This is my data since I started recording using a 1) VenusGX and a 2) Carlo Gavazzi.
    Note: If you decided you want say a Victron, you can start today with just these two parts, and record your AC consumption, for decision making.

    One is when I started recording, being grid tied.
    Two when I upgraded van 2.2kw array to 3.5kw array.

    And the other picture, last 24 hours usage.
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    Last edited by the_terrible_triplett; 2020/06/18 at 03:08 PM.
    Political Correctness
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    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
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  7. #127
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    I agree with the data harvesting which must be your first step.
    I would go so far as to say if a installer gives you a quote without asking about your usage and only guesstamating your usage, then that should be the first very big red light.

    I know there are some installers who will come install a meter at your house and monitor it for 2, 3, 4 weeks before they give you a quote. Such a short period isn't ideal, but better than nothing.
    It's in pubs where the world's greatest ideas begin.

  8. #128
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    Lithium batteries are not cheap upfront right?
    But today there are options out and more coming I bet, to lower the cost of ones lithium bank, like this 12v lithium bank compared to same ah lead acid.

    Or for larger systems, you need 16cells for 48v or more AH, so you get 32 or 64 cells, cells like these: Loose lithium cells
    And a BMS to manage the bank/s: BMS to Match

    Can GoodWE inverters accept any "off the shelf" BMS that is not integrated with its software?
    So if I may pose a question in a slightly different way. If someone is to start out using the lithium batterry kit you have a link to in your post above, what would the shopping list look like that matches what this kit can deliver on or be able to service e.g. only a router and a fridge and then build up on from there as the datais accumulated and addtional needs are identified in the same process? In asking a backward workable solution based on what the entry system can deliver which means we start with the lithium kit, add on a matching inverter and BMS and so forth. What would that shopping list look like?

    I hope I'm making sense if not then
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  9. #129
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shade View Post
    So if I may pose a question in a slightly different way. If someone is to start out using the lithium batterry kit you have a link to in your post above, what would the shopping list look like that matches what this kit can deliver on or be able to service e.g. only a router and a fridge and then build up on from there as the datais accumulated and addtional needs are identified in the same process? In asking a backward workable solution based on what the entry system can deliver which means we start with the lithium kit, add on a matching inverter and BMS and so forth. What would that shopping list look like?

    I hope I'm making sense if not then
    Clever, very very clever question. I like.


    It boils down to the cells you need, as each cell is 3.2v, so you build it up in series to your required volts.

    A 48v system: 6.1kWh bank - 51.2v x 120ah
    16 x 2nd Life cells: https://lithiumbatteriessa.co.za/col...e-battery-cell

    16 x Connector sets: https://lithiumbatteriessa.co.za/col...-connector-set
    I would recommend getting 6mm stainless steel bolts though, I already stripped one battery pole.

    1 x BMS - 48v 16s: https://lithiumbatteriessa.co.za/col...31991660445786


    Or if it is for a 12v system - 12.8v x 120ah = 1.5kWh bank:
    https://lithiumbatteriessa.co.za/collections/diy-kit/products/copy-of-12v-120ah-120a-lifepo4-lithium-ion-phosphate-diy-kit


    All that is left, a charger (MPPT and/or Inverter) that can charge the batts at the correct volts:
    Bulk: 54.6v - very NB this.
    Float: 53.4 - very NB this too.
    Here I push the envelope - Charge at: 70amps
    Last edited by the_terrible_triplett; 2020/06/18 at 05:28 PM.
    Political Correctness
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional illogical minority, rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd ... by the clean end!

    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

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  11. #130
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    O.K. ek is nou amper gereed om my stelsel bymekaar te sit; TTT & Gerlach julle raad sal weereens hoog op prys gestel word. Eers ‘n paar vooraf aannames / metings:-
    - Ek hoef nie met een verskaffer te werk nie – want ek het ‘n tenant wat die paneel-installasie kan doen; en hy het weer ‘n elektrisiŽns-vriend wat die DB kant van sake kan hanteer. So ek kan maklik solank begin en die nodige materiaal begin bestel – as ek maar net weet waar om te koop teen die beste pryse …
    - Dit lyk my Ellies stock Canadian Solar, die goedkoper DEY reeks Inverters en ek neem aan seker ook die ander normale monteer accesories. Op my Rectron pryslys sien ek die 2.4 en 3.5Kw 48V Pylontechs maar ek weet nie of die pryse verteenwoordigend is nie. Google confuse my bietjie want dit lyk asof daar x2 Victron verspreiders is? En ek weet nie wie sal bereid wees om aan my te verkoop en of daar ‘n dealer stelsel in plek is waar mens kan score nie. [Ek is ‘n deeltydse rekenaarhandelaar (onder andere J)].

    Uitgesluit die installasiekoste, kan ek gaan tot R190K maar ek wil dit nie noodwendig spandeer net omdat ek kan nie. Terselfdertyd sal ek nie graag ‘n sent wil omdraai en gehalte inboet nie.

    - Requirements [I used my prepaid meter over 10 days for these measurements]
    - - Critical (5hrs backup wanted): 0.850 Kw/h
    -- Sleeping time draw: 0.5 Kw/h [high-ish due to a PS Audio Regenarator powering Hi-Fi 24/7]
    - - Total avg w/out heat-poolpumps or aircons : 1 Kw/h
    - - Total avg with heat-and poolpumps running: 2.7 – 3.2 Kw/h
    - - Due to reasons I ignore geyser & aircons ito speccing the system

    MY PROVISIONAL LIST
    - Inverter : Victron MultiPlus II Inverter 48/3000/35-32 230V - 3.5kw array (note 1)
    - MPPT : which one? (note 2)
    - Victron MK3-USB interface cable
    - Victron VenusGX
    - Carlo Gavazzi ET112 Energy meter
    - RS485 to USB interface cable 5m
    - 2 x Onesto double pole 40Ka 275V AC Surge Arrestor.
    - 2 x Victron MEGA Fuse Holder
    - 3 x Victron MEGA Fuse Holder
    - a minimum of 2x 3.5 Kw Pylontech Lithium [note 3]
    - Panels and accessories to mount as required [Ellies?]

    Note 1: On the one hand I’m trying to reduce panels because I’ve already got x3 Solar geysers in my prime roof space [though I can “harvest” close next door if I have to]. OTOH I want to be sure I get as close as possible to 1Kw/h most of the daytime, even with conditions less than ideal. So: Is it O.K./Adviseable to go for 10x Canadian Solar 400w Super High Power Poly PERC HiKU = 4Kw, higher than 3.5 as suggested?

    Note 2: Can you suggest the best option given the inverter, panels and batteries?

    Note 3(a): I suppose all retail / assembled Lithiums already have the BMS integrated?
    Note 3(b): Sufficient backup time is very important to me. 7 Kwh should be enough. But maybe it makes sense to go up a little bit here? I’m thinking: If I can dip into the batteries up to (say) 35% DOD during nighttime and have enough left for a few hours till the sun takes over, I may possibly maintain close to my daily average 1Kw/h – because during the day, I’m likely to have pumps etc on; and may get up to 2.4Kw/h; and during bedtime perhaps the batteries can help somewhat?
    Note 3(c): Pylontech is ONLY mentioned because it’s on my Rectron pricelist. Perhaps another brand is recommended?
    Last edited by plcomp; 2020/06/18 at 08:18 PM.

  12. #131
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Skiep Ellies. Hulle is duur. Ek neem aan jy Prt/Jhb se kant. Gaan Rubicon toe. As jy it besigheid het dan het jy besigheids vat . Jy kan deur hulle pannels en mountings en al die bedrading koop en gaan nog goedkoper betaal omdat jy besigheid het. Hulle 370w split cell pannels shipment moes die week in gekom het, en was nog way cheaper wat ander plekke vrae. Hulle doen K2 en Gecko mountings en rails. Hulle het ander size watt pannels ook.

    R190k is n paar rand. Jy kan nogals ver kom met dit as jy baie self gaan doen. As jy Victron gaan, praat met TTT. As jy MLT gaan kan ek by my kontak hoor wie in jou kant verkoop.

    Battery is daar opsies. Jy kan DIY soos ons. Jy kan kyk na Revov, Bluenova, Solar MD en freedom won. Almal werk met Victron en met MLT. Sal graag wil sien wat Rectron sal vrae vir die Pylontech.

    Side line vraag, wie het vir jou hulle inligting gestuur van hulle huis gebruik. - Sleeping time draw: 0.5 Kw/h [high-ish due to a PS Audio Regenarator powering Hi-Fi 24/7]
    Ek spot n PS Audio Regenarator. Daai outjies kos groot geld en gemaak vir high end audio. Ek is in daai goed ook. Daai Regenarator kos maklik tussen R20 000 en R40 000 en op.

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  14. #132
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by plcomp View Post
    ... Ďn tenant wat die paneel-installasie kan doen; en hy het weer Ďn elektrisiŽns-vriend wat die DB kant van sake kan hanteer.
    Perfect!

    Quote Originally Posted by plcomp View Post
    So ek kan maklik solank begin en die nodige materiaal begin bestel Ė as ek maar net weet waar om te koop teen die beste pryse Ö
    Have we spoken off forum?
    Send me a PM, that I can email you some information for the sparkies, ideas that he can start with.


    Quote Originally Posted by plcomp View Post
    Op my Rectron pryslys sien ek die 2.4 en 3.5Kw 48V Pylontechs maar ek weet nie of die pryse verteenwoordigend is nie.
    If those prices are dealer prices, then you are quite on track. But compare DIY lithium bank pricing ...


    Quote Originally Posted by plcomp View Post
    Google confuse my bietjie want dit lyk asof daar x2 Victron verspreiders is? En ek weet nie wie sal bereid wees om aan my te verkoop en of daar Ďn dealer stelsel in plek is waar mens kan score nie. [Ek is Ďn deeltydse rekenaarhandelaar (onder andere J)].
    No, there are a lot of dealers on SA.
    If you know the right people, you want to learn more on how the system works, read up on what you can, then you can get very far with Victron.
    And you have the sparkie, so you just need a part source at good pricing.
    If not, then a Victron dealer is a good start for them to connect and install it all.

    Quote Originally Posted by plcomp View Post
    Uitgesluit die installasiekoste, kan ek gaan tot R190K maar ek wil dit nie noodwendig spandeer net omdat ek kan nie. Terselfdertyd sal ek nie graag Ďn sent wil omdraai en gehalte inboet nie.
    R190k leaves a lot of room to play with. Lets see what we can do, for less.

    Quote Originally Posted by plcomp View Post
    MY PROVISIONAL LIST
    - Inverter : Victron MultiPlus II Inverter 48/3000/35-32 230V - 3.5kw array (note 1) - Temperature derating ... 5kva fits your budget.
    - MPPT : which one? (note 2) - depends on the final array, but with >400w panels, look at the 250/xxx range.
    You want to do it once, then a 250/100 because you can go big on them ito array, yet start smaller, so expansion is sorted for many years to come.
    Like start with 8 x 400w panels (3200w) ... walk the talk.
    Then add 4 x 400w panels (4800w) ... feel how it feels.
    Then you want to push it ... add 4 more (6400w) ... assuming you can use all the power.
    4 in Series / 4 in Parallel.


    Thought - using 350w panels:
    I started with 5 Series, 2 Parallel = 3500w
    Add 5 more - 5 Series, 3 Parallel = 5250w - BUT ... I'm acutely aware that I'm on 249.9volts so if it is freexing cold with lovely sun, I may pop the MPPT - my risk.
    I can push it to 5 Series, 4 Parallel to get to 7kw ... I cannot use the power.

    And in Cpt, we don't have freezing conditions like SA experienced recently. Be very aware of this little titbit.

    And 330w Canadians, will start at 3300w, 4950w and maks of 6600w at 245.7volts max ... something to consider.

    - Victron MK3-USB interface cable
    - Victron VenusGX
    - Carlo Gavazzi ET112 Energy meter
    - RS485 to USB interface cable 5m
    - 2 x Onesto double pole 40Ka 275V AC Surge Arrestor.
    - 2 x Victron MEGA Fuse Holder
    - 3 x Victron MEGA Fuses - one spare.
    - a minimum of 2x 3.5 Kw Pylontech Lithium [note 3] - me, I would go for DIY 7.6kWH lithium bank.
    And then when I get a Victron integrated BMS supplier, I hope, one that does not cost a kidney, then you upgrade the BMS to that one.

    - Panels and accessories to mount as required [Ellies?]
    - Rubicon for frames and Canadian panels, or any Canadian supplier that sells at the best price per watt.


    Quote Originally Posted by plcomp View Post
    Note 1: On the one hand Iím trying to reduce panels because Iíve already got x3 Solar geysers in my prime roof space [though I can ďharvestĒ close next door if I have to]. OTOH I want to be sure I get as close as possible to 1Kw/h most of the daytime, even with conditions less than ideal. So: Is it O.K./Adviseable to go for 10x Canadian Solar 400w Super High Power Poly PERC HiKU = 4Kw, higher than 3.5 as suggested?
    Canadian solar - check.
    400w or bigger panels - note the 350w and 330w above ... or 435w panels.
    Start smaller, add more panels as you see the data - winter months is the best time to see what you need. Summer will be a oversupply.

    Quote Originally Posted by plcomp View Post
    Note 2: Can you suggest the best option given the inverter, panels and batteries?
    Victron 5kva, Canadian panels and DIY lithium bank.

    Quote Originally Posted by plcomp View Post
    Note 3(a): I suppose all retail / assembled Lithiums already have the BMS integrated?
    Yes.
    Most retail lithiums interface with Victron already - so you can go expensive and get one of them.
    As all lithium banks must have a BMS, you can be braver and go DIY lithium like Gerlach and I.
    Have the settings now pretty much figured for the Daly BMS and Victron setup.
    And as I said, we can all look for a BMS that interfaces with Victron, or get hold of a developer ... and do our own thing!?

    Quote Originally Posted by plcomp View Post
    Note 3(b): Sufficient backup time is very important to me. 7 Kwh should be enough. But maybe it makes sense to go up a little bit here? Iím thinking: If I can dip into the batteries up to (say) 35% DOD during nighttime and have enough left for a few hours till the sun takes over, I may possibly maintain close to my daily average 1Kw/h Ė because during the day, Iím likely to have pumps etc on; and may get up to 2.4Kw/h; and during bedtime perhaps the batteries can help somewhat?
    Note 3(c): Pylontech is ONLY mentioned because itís on my Rectron pricelist. Perhaps another brand is recommended?
    If Eskom start failing, don't discharge the batts, keep them charged ... rest of the time, use them to +-50% - best cycles are there.
    Bt scheduling the loads, start with a 7kWH bank.
    then see how much you can take off Eskom, grid tied, like evening loads but not the cooking loads for exmaple. Testing a little program for that.
    Then double that if you are sure you a) have the spare power to charge them and power the loads and 2) you can use the extra power.
    FYI: Any chance you can import, or have friends whom can import from China, then 280ah lithiums are an option too.

    If you follow my path, you can copy/paste my setup ... takes a lot of experimenting out of the equation.
    Political Correctness
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional illogical minority, rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd ... by the clean end!

    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

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  16. #133
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Ek neem aan jy Prt/Jhb se kant.
    Ek is in Oos London; en ons het 'n plaaslike Rubicon.
    besigheids vat.
    Ek is VAT geregistreerd, maar die besigheidjie was maar altyd [25 jaar!] 'n deeltydse werk. Lekker ekstra ja, maar nie groot genoeg om soveel VAT te score sonder om vir SARS onrustig te maak nie ...
    As jy Victron gaan, praat met TTT. As jy MLT gaan kan ek by my kontak hoor wie in jou kant verkoop.
    Ek neig nogal na die Victron kant toe op hierdie stadium, maar is oop vir oortuiging ... Net redelik haastig; wil SSM begin.
    Jy kan DIY soos ons.Jy kan kyk na Revov, Bluenova, Solar MD en freedom won.
    10 jaar terug sou ek dalk ... kom ek stel dit sů:- Tradisioneel het ek nog altyd my eie rekenaars gebou. Rectron is hoofsaaklik komponent-gerig; terwyl hulle suster company Mustek weer hoofsaaklik op die klaar produk (Mecer) gemik is. So ek koop by Rectron; nie by Mustek nie. Ek soek daardie totale kontrole oor elke komponent. En word die bl!ks&em in as ek elke keer moet navraag doen oor "gee die prys sonder daai 1Tb rubbish en eerder met 'n 256Gb M.2 Nvme SSD ...
    Maar wanneer dit by Solar kom, waar ek op hierdie stadium 'n beginner is, nou soek ek maar daai "Mecer" (Revov etc) - wetende dat dit my meer gaan kos.
    Almal werk met Victron en met MLT. Sal graag wil sien wat Rectron sal vrae vir die Pylontech.
    Hulle is nie noodwendig so goedkoop nie hoor. Ek weet nie of dit teen forumreŽls is om pryse aan te haal nie, so kom ons sÍ maar eerder: Op hierdie stadium kos 'n 3.5 Kwh so R2500 goedkoper by Solaradvice as by Rectron.
    Side line vraag ...huis gebruik ... Regenarator
    PM gestuur ...
    Last edited by plcomp; 2020/06/19 at 05:18 AM.

  17. #134
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Have we spoken off forum? ...Send me a PM, that I can email you some information for the sparkies, ideas that he can start with.
    No not yet - will send you a PM shortly. For now, I've cut & pasted into Word plenty of info from this thread (incl your schematics) to present to my sparkie when he comes to "tidy up" prior to the main installation.

    No, there are a lot of dealers on SA. ... If you know the right people
    I'll check today with the guy who's gonna do the solar panel install if his sparkie friend knows Victron; and perhaps I can buy through him.
    If he can't supply, then I still need to get into touch with "the right people"

    Rubicon for frames and Canadian panels, or any Canadian supplier that sells at the best price per watt. Victron 5kva
    Rubicon is about 1 Km from me ... so I will most definitely check with them! [Edit: I see on their website they do the HD Wave SolarEdge inverters].
    And I'll take your advice and go with the 5Kva Victron.
    However, in terms of the panels, you gave a lot of info on possible panel combinations, watts, volts, danger wrt popping something (249V) ... whereas I'm kinda hoping for a "final list" without having to wrap my head around it LOL.
    I like the idea of speccing for future possible expansion, so with this in mind:-
    * Multiplus 5Kva -yes;
    * MPPT .. which one? Sufficient for this setup and expansion.
    * Say, 2 or 3 final options on workable, safe array combinations using less panels (higher watts)
    you can be braver and go DIY lithium like Gerlach and I ... FYI: Any chance you can import, or have friends whom can import from China, then 280ah lithiums are an option too.
    Eish ... not brave at all I do have an import permit and customs number, but as mentioned in my reply to Gerlach I'd just rather get the best, yet most economical, finished, guaranteed product around 2x 3.5Kwh as a minimum, and perhaps a little higher.
    Last edited by plcomp; 2020/06/19 at 05:41 AM.

  18. #135
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Loads of information here wow!

    How do I know what my daily consumption is?
    Prepaid meter shows about 100 units pee day now during the cold spell
    Normally about 50 units per day
    Geyser = solar
    Gas stove
    All LED lights
    Swimming pool
    Underfloor heating Not used at all to expensive
    3 phase supply

    Stuff on Tesla system based on my prepaid usage. No actual consumption measured.


    Another quote suggest a different setup

    SMA Sunny Boy SB5.0 5kW Solar Grid Tie Inverter JA Solar 315W MONO Perc solar panel - 17 panels
    SMA Home Manager 2 (Feed in manager)
    SMA Sunny Island 8.0H, with Temp Sensor
    Energizer 225Ah 12V deep cycle battery
    Battery Stand for 8 batteries


    What to do? I am Not an expert in this field. Donít want to throw away money
    What system would you suggest?
    Hilux 2.8 GD6 4x4 DC
    Jurgens Explorer


    Cobus

  19. #136
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Thanks for all the replies, think I should have added that we will purely use it as a backup when Eskom load sheds (for now), Generator is no option for me as I hate the noise.

  20. #137
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobus. Pelser View Post
    Loads of information here wow!

    How do I know what my daily consumption is?
    Prepaid meter shows about 100 units pee day now during the cold spell
    Normally about 50 units per day
    Geyser = solar
    Gas stove
    All LED lights
    Swimming pool
    Underfloor heating Not used at all to expensive
    3 phase supply

    Stuff on Tesla system based on my prepaid usage. No actual consumption measured.


    Another quote suggest a different setup

    SMA Sunny Boy SB5.0 5kW Solar Grid Tie Inverter JA Solar 315W MONO Perc solar panel - 17 panels
    SMA Home Manager 2 (Feed in manager)
    SMA Sunny Island 8.0H, with Temp Sensor
    Energizer 225Ah 12V deep cycle battery
    Battery Stand for 8 batteries


    What to do? I am Not an expert in this field. Donít want to throw away money
    What system would you suggest?
    100 units = 100Kwh per day / A constant 4160watts ticking over.

    You would need to harvest daily solar yield in only 5-6 hours in winter.

    To give you a ballpark, that Tesla system you were quoted is about 5-6X times under spec'd. Be prepared to spend millions to supply that level of consumption with renewable energy.

    Have you considered buying Tesla shares? Perhaps, look into renewable energy farming

    In all seriousness, Victron & Germanic string inverters work very well.

    Look into your consumption first...get expert advice.

  21. #138
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by plcomp View Post
    ... whereas I'm kinda hoping for a "final list" without having to wrap my head around it LOL.
    I like the idea of speccing for future possible expansion, so with this in mind:-
    * Multiplus 5Kva -yes;
    * MPPT .. which one? Sufficient for this setup and expansion.
    * Say, 2 or 3 final options on workable, safe array combinations using less panels (higher watts)

    Eish ... not brave at all I do have an import permit and customs number, but as mentioned in my reply to Gerlach I'd just rather get the best, yet most economical, finished, guaranteed product around 2x 3.5Kwh as a minimum, and perhaps a little higher.
    From my side, the easy quick one, no thinking involved:
    5kva Vicron Multiplus II
    MPPT Smartsolar 250/100 - This is the trickie part ito costs / panels you can install. The 249.9v is 0.1v below the 250v max volts, where it blows. :-)
    Panels you want to start with - say 3.5kw - because I get 2.5kw in winter from them. T&C's apply how yours will be mounted.
    And it depends on what panels you can pick up today, on which combination you go for.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cobus. Pelser View Post
    What to do? I am Not an expert in this field. Donít want to throw away money
    What system would you suggest?
    Which system? Victron obviously.
    But then there is also MLT, GoodWE - a whole list of NRS approved inverters.

    Tesla - what rnieckau said.
    100 units is a good starting point, how can you lower that? Do you know where the power goes every minute of the day?
    Get a energy meter installed that can give you your daily consumption.

    3 Phase supply on Victron is expensive as it is 3 x inverters. Unless that is a WANT ... or you can revert back to single phase?
    When you mention brands, keep referring to the NRS list of approved inverters. Future proof your install.
    Look at lithiums instead of lead acid batteries if you go the solar route.

    For it is a long and hard conversation, demoralizing at times - unless you have a clear idea where you want to go, like say PLComp has.


    Quote Originally Posted by JJP View Post
    Thanks for all the replies, think I should have added that we will purely use it as a backup when Eskom load sheds (for now), Generator is no option for me as I hate the noise.
    In that case, consider:
    3kav - 5kva Victron MPII inverter only as UPS if your final goal is solar grid-tied, then a NRS approved inverter so that that part is sorted.
    Or a 3kva - 5kva Axpert 5kva knowing full well that it is legal to install it as a UPS but illegal to have panels connected to it.

    If only UPS for a few years, go for the cheapest batts you can, being a UPS, knowing full well they are "toilet paper", you replace them every few years.
    If your plan is to go solar, then start with lithiums on the UPS.
    Political Correctness
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional illogical minority, rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd ... by the clean end!

    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

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  23. #139
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Ja. Daai gedeelte wat TTT op gebring is van die Max volts input op MPPT is baie belangrik. Hou altyd n speening oop. Veral die koue dae. Die kom in basies hou jy strings gaan pak. Jy sien nou in die tyd gereeld op FB en forums ouens wat soos die inverters wat die in geboude mppts hardloop wat nou klae oor "high bus volts" en errors want die inverter is full max gepak met pannels en die klomp wat dit install neem nie die max volts van die pannels in kennis en die koue dae nie.

    As jou pannels baie koud is, dan maak hy baie meer krag en dan kom se daai volts hello vir die mppt. En veral daai goodwe en voltronics outjies knak dadelik onder daai of vat so paar hits en dan blaas hy die board.

    Die pannels raak al so advance, jy kry al in die buite mark 510w pannels. Ek sien local is daar 450w ook. So begin al jou getal van pannels array stack minde maar jou watts raak meer.

    Goeie begin is soos TTT se en wat ek ook gemaak het, koop eers n getal en sit op en toets en kyk of daai genoeg gaan gee vir jou gebruik, en add by tot jy die sweet spot kry. Ek moet soos bv nog extra 3 of 6 by add by my setup om die loads te cover en my lifepo4s te charge vir die winter. Somer sal ek ver genoeg gecover wees dan.

    By gese ook en ek en TTT hou daai data dop, jou pannels wat gerate is om sekere krag te maak kan op n goeie sonskyn dag verby sy rate ook supply en dis iets om te aanskou. So hou daai ook in gedagte.

  24. #140
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cobus. Pelser View Post
    Loads of information here wow!

    How do I know what my daily consumption is?
    Prepaid meter shows about 100 units pee day now during the cold spell
    Normally about 50 units per day
    Geyser = solar
    Gas stove
    All LED lights
    Swimming pool
    Underfloor heating Not used at all to expensive
    3 phase supply

    Stuff on Tesla system based on my prepaid usage. No actual consumption measured.


    Another quote suggest a different setup

    SMA Sunny Boy SB5.0 5kW Solar Grid Tie Inverter JA Solar 315W MONO Perc solar panel - 17 panels
    SMA Home Manager 2 (Feed in manager)
    SMA Sunny Island 8.0H, with Temp Sensor
    Energizer 225Ah 12V deep cycle battery
    Battery Stand for 8 batteries


    What to do? I am Not an expert in this field. Donít want to throw away money
    What system would you suggest?
    Tesla is super nice, i have seen one in front of me working and stuff, but for the price, nope. Rubicon is the main seller in SA for them. Prepare to spend R170k plus per unit and you still need to add a gridtie inverter to it and it must have permanent link to the internet so dat Tesla have control over it so it can sustain it's warranty.

    On the other part, SMA is super nice. Brand that showed the name over the years. Got family thats running a big SMA setup on there farm and we using there sunny boys connected to 3 x 15kw Quattro victrons at our one office.

    I will just remove the lead acid batteries and replace them with Lithiums/lifepo4s.

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