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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by putta View Post
    dont wish to hijack the thread, what is your opinion on the MLT Oasis off grid inverters ? these are similarly priced to Victron and manufactured in CT and hence repairs and support are local.
    https://mltinverters.com/our-products/oasis-inverter/
    https://mltinverters.com/our-products/nomad/
    Very good inverters!!!

    I believe they are now also appearing in the NRS list gain, they where on but the certification expired.
    But they are back.

    They are quite pricey, more so than Victron in same instances.
    But you also get them at times 2nd hand, and their backup support, I'm told, is very good.
    And they are repairable too IF they break, which I'm told is not often at all.

    Gerlach is a MLT supporter, and he helps people source them if he can.
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  2. #42
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by putta View Post
    dont wish to hijack the thread, what is your opinion on the MLT Oasis off grid inverters ? these are similarly priced to Victron and manufactured in CT and hence repairs and support are local.
    https://mltinverters.com/our-products/oasis-inverter/
    https://mltinverters.com/our-products/nomad/
    Look at this one they have ... 70kVA ... https://mltinverters.com/our-products/karoo-inverter/
    Political Correctness
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  3. #43
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by putta View Post
    dont wish to hijack the thread, what is your opinion on the MLT Oasis off grid inverters ? these are similarly priced to Victron and manufactured in CT and hence repairs and support are local.
    https://mltinverters.com/our-products/oasis-inverter/
    https://mltinverters.com/our-products/nomad/
    @putta. Like TTT sade in his post and support. The MLT inverters are really good units, that is build locally and there local support is really good. I'm super happy with my Powerstar and a big supporter of them.

    On your question on the Oasis. It's a hybrid inverter that you can connect to the grid and can blend grid with solar and battery and got gen set input to. There units gor the NSR certificates and they supply connection diagrams to. The oasis you get in a 5kva "4kw constant and 5kw for 30min and can peak ", they are R25k. Then you get a 8.0h " 6kw constant and 8kw for 30min and can peak bubble the rating", they are R38k. Then they have a 10.0H. " 8kw constant and 10kw for 30sec and can peak at dubble rating at 30sec" . R44k for this unit. All this units can connect to lithium batteries and opperate via touch screen and via the MLT Bridge that connects to the internet and portel. They can parallel with each other.

    They have there own MPPT that runs 2 mppts in one unit so you can run a split PV array. Opperates via touch screen to and Bridge portel and have lithium settings to.

    I own 8.0H powerstar, the bigger more rebust unit. it weights in at 72kg, 2 LF transformers. They the older units of MLT. You get them in a 8kw, 10kw, 12kw, 16kw and 27kw units. They stack on top of each other when you want to parallel and can go bigger. This units a bi-direction hybrid inverter. Can feed grid in to the inverter, you can export, add solar, wind, generator and mix all of them. The unit got a Mppt input so you connect your mppt inyo the inverter and charge the batteries via the inverter so the inverter keeps a eye on al die DC currants that go's in and out. Can even show the wind speed of wind turbine and auto start and cool down of generator and show fuel level of diesel system and est and est, the list go's on. They where on the CoCT list till 2017 with NSR certificate. This units was developed design with the help with UCT in they early 2000s.

    There brand new powerstar unit is wall mounted design now with all the extras like the old unit and all the units got NSR approval so hopefully they will be on the next CoCT list.

    You can pick 2nd hand units up for a good price, and you can mail MLT and ask them the age of the unit and if it's got a service record and if still under warranty. They can send out there guys to inspect the unit or collect if need to be fixed, but that happens seldom. My unit is 10 years old and still going and got lithium connection and works with the new bridge software.

    I'm running mine on a DIY lifepo4 setup with a BMS that gives me control over the batteries and gives me info via the BMS.
    Last edited by Gerlach; 2020/06/10 at 03:03 PM.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    I'm like TTT, i like a setup where all my stuff is separate, and where you can build your setup like Lego. If one thing breaks, then the system can still operate with out that part till it's sorted.

    Yip, I had a all in one system rite in the beginning, till it gave me problems, and the problems connected to fix it. I see regular posts on the forums and FB of guys asking questions on repairs on some brands that pop up in the last 3 years in South africa.

    Here is my MLT Powerstar 8.0H with 2 Microcare 60A mppts , I got a 3de one for backup. 140Ah Lifepo4 setup with Smart Ant BMS with Bluetooth and second 140ah lifepo4 setup waiting for it's BMS to arrived. Running offgrid with a 3way change over switch between offgrid and grid.
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  5. #45
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Hi jcdup, I hope you don't mind me adding to your thread, but there are so many about this subject and this one has a lot of useful and interesting info - especially about SSEG, NRS and SANS which I did not know about. I am also hoping that the experts will help unravel all that is required so that I can choose the right setup confidently.

    My requirement is initially backup for the essential items, excluding geyser, with the option to add panels later and be largely off the grid. Also to add value to the house for when we sell and go to the children down the KZN coast. There are only two of us so our electricity consumption is not high, but it is a four bedroom house and the next owner could fill all the rooms. I know it may be unwise to cater for a future owner needs, but I would prefer to do the job properly first time if it is reasonable. I am happy for any criticism on the suggestions, I will not take it personally.

    We have had a few quotes from people who have had a look at the house and our requirements which point to 800Ah batteries and around 5kVA and between R 80 000.00 to R 111 000.00, excluding electrician fees. I have always liked Victron and as Current Automation - their agents - are fairly close to us, I have had many discussions on the different options available. What I like about their quote is that they build a full DC DB with either all the bells and whistles or wired for them and it just has to be connected to the existing DB - in our case it will not include the MPPT at this stage, extra cost and not required now. Going for Lithium batteries now was also a consideration, but will also push us over what we are prepared for now. In addition I had a look at the Lithiumbatteriessa ones which would not have increased the cost much more over the Ritar batteries, but Current Automation says they are not compatible with Victron (sales talk, I don't know) AND I would need to get 4 of them as the inverter needs about 130 Amps for milliseconds to get switched over and the Lithium only have 35 Amps each.

    Below are the specs for the complete 8 kVA package, including the DC DB, cabinet, batteries, etc. so that I can get a feel for what the total cost would be – excluding the electrician. They also put one together for a 5 kVA, the main cost difference of about R 16 000.00 being the Quattro Inverter vs the Multiplus. I have asked them if the Quattro is legal in terms of the regulations. Hopefully I have supplied enough info here for those knowledgable in these things, to give me some thoughts on the viability of this package. I have been stewing on different options for more than a month, so I really hope for some practicle guidance.

    Many thanks and kind regards.

    Last edited by JamesV; 2020/06/10 at 03:50 PM. Reason: Table not showing

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Hi I see that the table did not load, so here it is:


  7. #47
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    Angry Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Please help!!!. I copied some lines from excel but they do not show, how do I get them to display

    Kind regards

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesV View Post
    In addition I had a look at the Lithiumbatteriessa ones which would not have increased the cost much more over the Ritar batteries, but Current Automation says they are not compatible with Victron (sales talk, I don't know) AND I would need to get 4 of them as the inverter needs about 130 Amps for milliseconds to get switched over and the Lithium only have 35 Amps each.

    Jip, sales talk!!! And this places will do it. I'm running a diy lifepo4 setup for 137days 3hours and 36min with out any problems.

    Jaco joined the diy lifepo4 setup and he runs a full victron setup and he can give you more info on his findings.

    The other day one of my friends was told the same story " nope, it will not work" . I told him go by 2 sets of 16 lifepo4s of 150ah. 3 weeks later, planning to buy 2 more sets.

    There is some nice bms systems that you can buy that can work with inverters, if you planning to 30kwh plus storage, then it's the way to go.

    If going the plug and "pray" set with batteries, there is alot of options to go for and a price to go with.
    Last edited by Gerlach; 2020/06/10 at 04:09 PM.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Hi Gerlach, I thought so, thanks for confirming. You have also added another complexity - BMS, Battery Management System. I thought that the Victron Inverter with the VENUS GX manages the batteries? What does this BMS do?

    Would still like to copy the components that have been suggested, anyone to assist?

    I have had a reply from Current Automation, the Quattro is NOT NRS compliant, so I will have to look at their 5kVA package and maybe go for the Lithium batteries.

    Kind regards

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesV View Post
    ... , but Current Automation says they are not compatible with Victron (sales talk, I don't know) AND I would need to get 4 of them as the inverter needs about 130 Amps for milliseconds to get switched over and the Lithium only have 35 Amps each.

    ... so I really hope for some practical guidance.
    A few fast thoughts off the top of my head:
    1) I use those LithiumBatteriesSA for my Victron setup, with the Daly BMS. Works perfectly.
    2) Get a NRS approved inverter if you have any plans of putting on solar.

    The secret is: Make sure you have enough AH, like minimum a 200ah bank on 48v.
    And get a BMV, that the inverter knows the SOC.
    It will work, got that from a Victron developer, because it matters none if it is lithium or lead acid. Just have the recommended battery bank AH.

    Why CA may not want you to go non-standard:
    1) More support potential for them i.e. "System is not working".
    2) Or they simply have not applied their minds?

    Why a Quattro:
    1) Will you use all it's features i.e. 2 x AC inputs? How and why?
    2) You are aware it is not on the NRS list.

    Think also that if you sell the house, or the Munic comes around to enforce the law if you want panels, or the new owner, say me, looks at putting up solar panels if I buy your home, I may ask you to excl that Quattro from the sales price.
    Why? Not on the NRS list so either I go off-grid or replace it with a NRS inverter.

    To go off-grid in cities:
    Just. does. not. make. sense. financially.
    Why? Larger inverter, more panels, more batteries and you need a generator for rainy days/weeks = much higher costs than going legally grid tied.

    Off-grid only makes real financial sense if you are on a farm with huge connection fees, having a generator already for Eskom failures.

    Evening loads predominantly cost the money, you need batteries for that:
    What does it cost per kWH for batteries at night vs what does Eskom cost per kWH?
    Now if someone says Eskom cost increase each year, yes it does. Offset those increases against the lost of your investment income/or interest.
    Just lower your Eskom general evening use to "needs", drop the "wants: i.e. switch stuff off.

    Because IF you get batteries, you WILL lower your evening use, trust me, you will. :-)
    So do that with Eskom first, then do the sums again.
    Now, having said that ... when you buy batteries, don't let them die of old age.

    So what I do - automatically:
    Battery SOC is set to no lower than 50% use.
    From 5pm, in winter, I limit my inverter to 100w - to keep the SOC for later.
    From 11pm till 9am, I limit the inverter to 500w - use the SOC to 50%.
    After 9am, back to full power, batteries are charge, if there is sun, by 11ish.

    Remember: The most expensive loads we all have, are:
    1) Below 1kw over 24/7/365. Not the oven, not the microwave, not the kettle.
    2) Loads that are on when we sleep at night.

    That is why a case can be made for 3kva grid tied inverters.
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  12. #51
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesV View Post
    Please help!!!. I copied some lines from excel but they do not show, how do I get them to display

    Kind regards
    Think the colour is an issue OF there is hidden code in the copy/paste messing it up.

    Item Description
    QUATTRO 48/8000/110
    VENUS GX
    BACK PLATE- SPECIAL BOX
    BACK PLATE-WALL MOUNT 1000
    LABOUR-WORKSHOP
    CONSUMABLES
    BATTERY CABINET TO HOUSE 4 X 200AH
    RITAR 12V 200AH SOLAR BATTERY

    [/QUOTE]
    Political Correctness
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    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

  13. #52
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by JamesV View Post
    You have also added another complexity - BMS, Battery Management System. I thought that the Victron Inverter with the VENUS GX manages the batteries? What does this BMS do?
    BMS - Battery Management System - it protects the batteries from all kinds of nasties.
    I.e. It switches off the bank if there is a problem, keeps the batteries balanced and properly charged.

    Nice to have the BMS interface with the VenusGX yes, but it is not a absolute need.
    If you go small banks like a Pylontech, the yes, it must interface ... or the BMS will switch off the inverter when you least expect it to protect the batteries from damage.
    That is why I said, get a big enough AH bank, min 200ah, unless you are DIY and want to learn?

    If you go i.e. LithiumBatteriesSA, I use their Daly BMS. Plain, simple and straight forward.
    Gerlach has nicer BMS'es that gives data and all that. DIY'ers heaven.

    Or you can spend real money and buy this one, that interfaces with the VenusGX, if you want: https://www.batrium.com/collections/...xp-blockmon-m8
    Political Correctness
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    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
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  15. #53
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    Look at this one they have ... 70kVA ... https://mltinverters.com/our-products/karoo-inverter/
    Thanks, I bought an Oasis 5000 and coupled it with an Nomad Dual MPPT and 12 x 330w Setsolar panels and have linked it to 360Ah sealed lead acid batteries in a 48 volt configuration. Currently have 6 panels pointing South and 6 Panels pointing North but currently find that my solar production is in the order of 31% of ave day consumption of 13kWh ouit in Tableview
    Putta
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Ok, here is a very simple diagram to explain the difference between Hybrid and Off-Grid or Bi-Directional inverters.

    With a hybrid, you can still have your grid consumption at ZERO while still supplying excess PV or battery power to your equipment above the inverter, like stove, oven, geyser and airconditioner.

    With other types of inverters this is not possible. You can only supply power to the UPS section, or what loads is connected below the inverter.

    It is for this reason many homes go for 2 x 5KVA units, but then the complete house runs from battery power when mains is off.

    With the hybrid, only the backup loads is supported, thus under most conditions 5KVA is more than enough for a normal house. So here it is important to split your DB into normal and essential loads.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wetkit View Post
    Ok, here is a very simple diagram to explain the difference between Hybrid and Off-Grid or Bi-Directional inverters.

    With a hybrid, you can still have your grid consumption at ZERO while still supplying excess PV or battery power to your equipment above the inverter, like stove, oven, geyser and airconditioner.

    With other types of inverters this is not possible. You can only supply power to the UPS section, or what loads is connected below the inverter.

    It is for this reason many homes go for 2 x 5KVA units, but then the complete house runs from battery power when mains is off.

    With the hybrid, only the backup loads is supported, thus under most conditions 5KVA is more than enough for a normal house. So here it is important to split your DB into normal and essential loads.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here is a nice one out of the MLT Powerstar book to show how a Bi-direction hybrid inverter works.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Gerlach; 2020/06/10 at 05:12 PM.

  20. #56
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Thanks for all the info, starting to make sense. I will go through all again tonight.

    Really appreciate all the help and willingness to share your knowledge.

    Kind regards

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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    I use 15 units of power per day, what would I require to partially relieve myself from Eskom
    When faced with the dilemma of being right or being happy , I choose happy every time

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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by rodneykdc View Post
    I use 15 units of power per day, what would I require to partially relieve myself from Eskom
    A 3kva hybrid inverter with panels starting at say 2kw panels, with data add more panels, to a max of 3.5kw.
    Batteries to match loads you want powered if Eskom goes off at night.

    Grid tied your ROI start from the very first watt the panels generate in the morning, reducing your Eskom draw by that 1 watt, watts increasing the entire day.
    Till the last watt when the sun sets.

    And when it is rainy or cloudy, panels still generate some watts, your still save on Eskom units.

    If you then schedule your loads for the peak watt hours like say, in my case, 11am-3pm, you save even more.
    I heat 2 x 2k geyser elements in conjunction with the house average draw of 500w, between 11 - 3 to 65deg C per geyser.

    Why not geysers on EV tubes?
    EV tubes system failed after 9.5 years of good service, panels where simply cheaper the 2nd round.

    Or, really the 1st step if you have nothing up yet, get EV tubes for your geyser if you don't have one yet.
    That is the truest saving the first time round.
    Political Correctness
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    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
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  25. #59
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Saga continues ...

    Mineral Resources and Energy Minister Gwede Mantashe Gazetted an amended version of Schedule 2 of the Electricity Regulation Act on March 26, which the Department of Mineral Resources and Energy (DMRE) said further clarified the requirements for generation for own use for facilities of under 1 MW.

    https://m.engineeringnews.co.za/arti...27/rep_id:4433



    CoCT and the court case ... to make sure the law says it can, and not have the Gov change their minds later ...

    Landmark case to open up South Africa’s power system outside of Eskom (13 May 2020)

    The city of Cape Town is awaiting a court ruling on whether it can buy its own electricity from suppliers other than national power utility Eskom without getting approval from the energy minister.

    Judge Leonie Windell of South Africa’s High Court on Tuesday reserved judgment in the case between the city and the energy ministry and the National Energy Regulator of South Africa.

    The case could pave the way for South African municipalities to bypass the ministry and source their own power, much of it from renewable sources.

    https://businesstech.co.za/news/ener...side-of-eskom/
    Political Correctness
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional illogical minority, rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd ... by the clean end!

    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

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    Smile Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    A 3kva hybrid inverter with panels starting at say 2kw panels, with data add more panels, to a max of 3.5kw.
    Batteries to match loads you want powered if Eskom goes off at night.

    Grid tied your ROI start from the very first watt the panels generate in the morning, reducing your Eskom draw by that 1 watt, watts increasing the entire day.
    Till the last watt when the sun sets.

    And when it is rainy or cloudy, panels still generate some watts, your still save on Eskom units.

    If you then schedule your loads for the peak watt hours like say, in my case, 11am-3pm, you save even more.
    I heat 2 x 2k geyser elements in conjunction with the house average draw of 500w, between 11 - 3 to 65deg C per geyser.

    Why not geysers on EV tubes?
    EV tubes system failed after 9.5 years of good service, panels where simply cheaper the 2nd round.

    Or, really the 1st step if you have nothing up yet, get EV tubes for your geyser if you don't have one yet.
    That is the truest saving the first time round.
    Thanks for the info, seems I'll be able to get away with a lot less than R200k with the Rand at current levels
    When faced with the dilemma of being right or being happy , I choose happy every time

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