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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    So if you have more than 3.5kW capacity you must go off-grid, or how did you get around the issue?

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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Lithium batteries are not cheap upfront right?
    But today there are options out and more coming I bet, to lower the cost of ones lithium bank, like this 12v lithium bank compared to same ah lead acid.

    Or for larger systems, you need 16cells for 48v or more AH, so you get 32 or 64 cells, cells like these: Loose lithium cells
    And a BMS to manage the bank/s: BMS to Match

    Can GoodWE inverters accept any "off the shelf" BMS that is not integrated with its software?
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Takashi View Post
    Have a look at the Axpert VM3.

    My daily Eskom usage went from around 12kWh to 1-2kWh per day.
    I changed my geyser element from a 4kW to a 2kW.
    Now when my battery is fully charged around 12h00 my geyser switches on at 12h30 and stays on for 2hours which is more than enough time to take it from 25C to 65C on solar.

    .
    Takashi

    Please assist me here. Am I making the wrong calculations?

    1 You mention Eskom is now only collecting up to 2kWh from you daily. That is R4/day = R120 per month. Bloody good!!
    2 Your geyser is on 2kW and runs for 2 hours daily, meaning 4kWh per day.

    Does it mean you run your geyser from the solar too? I know it is quite possible because we run our induction plate (2kW) from the panels.

    We are not off grid and run on Eskom during the night when draw is very low - 18kWh per day with at least 1kWh on security lights alone.
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  4. #24
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    Lithium batteries are not cheap upfront right?
    But today there are options out and more coming I bet, to lower the cost of ones lithium bank, like this 12v lithium bank compared to same ah lead acid.

    Or for larger systems, you need 16cells for 48v or more AH, so you get 32 or 64 cells, cells like these: Loose lithium cells
    And a BMS to manage the bank/s: BMS to Match

    Can GoodWE inverters accept any "off the shelf" BMS that is not integrated with its software?
    They're not priced too badly..R900 landed cost......
    https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...6cd7b917aGAJC4

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by NewLandy View Post
    So if you have more than 3.5kW capacity you must go off-grid, or how did you get around the issue?
    Easy.

    Having been through it myself, 3kva then 5kva AND having seen the emails back and forth between CoCT/GoodWE/Segen Solar with GoodWE users assisted by engineers signing off these systems:
    1) GoodWE: Limit the array to 3.5kw. Done and dusted.
    1.2) You have say installed say 4.5kw and you know you only ever get 3.5kw: Get a engineer to officially prove, taking all factors into account, that the array can produce max 3.5kw.

    2) With a Victron, get a 3kva Multiplus II with a 3.5kw or bigger array. As big as you can use, as the inverter is max 2.4kw grid tied in any event. Done and dusted.
    2.1) Get a 5kva model, array as big as you want, and simply limit the inverter to 3.5kw when grid tied.
    2.2) Get a 2 or more 5kva inverters, same rule applies as in 2.1.
    Because you can limit Victron inverters using built in software.
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Takashi View Post
    In line mode it still uses as much solar as possible and takes the rest from eskom or a generator.
    It can't push anything back into the grid.
    The core takeaway, simply put: If you have a inverter, and you connect panels to it, the regulation kick in.

    The ONLY caveat with any inverter that is not on the NRS list, is that it is not allowed to be connected to Eskom/Munic's grid. At all.
    If must be completely off-grid i.e. only a generator or panels can charge the batteries.
    You cannot use Eskom to charge the batteries, for if you do, because you have solar panels on the same inverter, it becomes a problem.

    ... IF you where to follow the NRS/SANS regs to the T ... not TTT, to the T.


    Pushing back to the grid, is not the issue either. Victron nor GoodWE users want to push back the the grid.

    1) You need a bi-directional meter to do that. More costs and stuff.
    2) Otherwise your PAYG meter would probably trip, or at least charge you for that power you fed back.
    3) If you have the old old meters, it is illegal to run them back. So watch out for that, don't get caught with a zero amount on your electricity bill.
    4) Munic's are legally not allowed, as per Constitution, to buy from anyone other than Eskom ... till CoCT can ratify that in court. So hold on.

    And remember, aerial photos are used to see who has solar panels installed, and who has not.
    That is how CoCT knows who to visit, and who not, if they cannot find your approved application for SSEG.
    Political Correctness
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional illogical minority, rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd ... by the clean end!

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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by JohanMaree View Post
    Takashi

    Please assist me here. Am I making the wrong calculations?

    1 You mention Eskom is now only collecting up to 2kWh from you daily. That is R4/day = R120 per month. Bloody good!!
    2 Your geyser is on 2kW and runs for 2 hours daily, meaning 4kWh per day.

    Does it mean you run your geyser from the solar too? I know it is quite possible because we run our induction plate (2kW) from the panels.

    We are not off grid and run on Eskom during the night when draw is very low - 18kWh per day with at least 1kWh on security lights alone.
    Johan

    The geyser is also connected to the solar.
    Battery is fully charged around 12h00.
    Inverter changes to Line mode at 12h20 (line mode is Solar + Utility ie eskom)
    Geyser timer switches on geyser at 12h30.

    Example 1:
    Lets say solar panels produce 1.8kW
    Geyser load + base load = 2.2kW
    Eskom is 400W, Solar is 1800W.
    400W for 2 hours is 0.8kW geyser costs
    Battery runs to 20% SOC at say 02h00 in the morning and inverter changes back to Eskom
    Base load is now drawn from Eskom until PV comes back up at around 7h30.
    We pay around 2kWh Eskom rates that day.

    Example 2:
    Very overcast Solar is 100W
    Geyser load + base load = 2.2kW
    Eskom is 2100W, Solar is 100W.
    2100W for 2 hours is 4.2kW geyser costs
    Battery was also not fully charged and we pay more eskom..... Such is life.

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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    Someone mentioned that the Victron Easysolar does not have a 250v MPPT ,no power meter, no WiFi and low IP rating.
    That is utter bull.
    https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...0-70-GX-EN.pdf

    Note: The latest model Easysolar is not on the NRS list yet ...
    Only need the extra MK3 cable to upgrade the Firmware of the inverter. With the built in VenusGX, you don't need it to program the inverter.
    And note too that Victron MPPT's and BMV's have the Bluetooth versions too, so use your phone and free VictronConnect software.

    What is the IP rating for a GoodWE? And Victron?
    Have not heard of GoodWE's being installed as a rule on yachts/ships.
    Oh sorry, looks like I stand corrected.

    Not trying to bash either unit.
    It does show me one thing that it is extremely difficult to compare Victron units.
    So Easysolar and Multiplus II is the same then, or not?

    The Easy Solar unit is rated IP21 and the Goodwe IP65.
    Victron started out originally as offgrid invertors for boating. That is why they have all these additional functions that might not always be nessesary for home use.
    Goodwe is exclusively for "land" use.


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  11. #29
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wetkit View Post
    Oh sorry, looks like I stand corrected.
    Not trying to bash either unit.
    It does show me one thing that it is extremely difficult to compare Victron units.
    Goodwe is exclusively for "land" use.
    No problem and thank you.
    Don't want to bash any make either.

    My only intention is to share what the equipment is capable of so that people have more insight before purchasing, even if it cost more, rather than buying on price alone only to realise later, having read about the possibilities here or elsewhere, when they one day realise they cannot do XYZ with what they've bought.

    The thing with comparing apples with apples is that the subtle differences makes it very tough.
    Like we used to compare Axpert with Victron ... huge bun fights with price always winning, till someone pointed out three things:
    1) Victron vs Axpert is like comparing fruit with vegetables i.e. off-grid with a true hybrid grid tied inverter.
    2) Axpert are not on the NRS list. That hit the Cpt solar users the hardest - because Cpt was the first to enforce the regs, CoCT allegedly being pushed by NERSA's to do so.
    3) Aftersales support from Voltronics being non-existent.


    Victron vs GoodWE, as per a GoodWE supporter:
    GoodWE is for a home user wanting to plug and play and not be bothered to tweak nor change anything, who will stick to the "rules", not drill down into the lowest levels of data.
    Versus
    Victron, having the option for plug and play, stick to the "rules", installed by a installer for the home user.
    OR ... the users who make their own "rules" up as they go (T&C's apply).
    That is being done by mixing matching programing all the components to ones hearts content, adding parts like LEGO, expanding the system, also allowing them to use any type/make/model battery they ever may want to.

    I have a feeling it boils down to ones personality ... ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Wetkit View Post
    So Easysolar and Multiplus II is the same then, or not?

    Victron started out originally as offgrid inverters for boating. That is why they have all these additional functions that might not always be nessesary for home use.
    Yes, Victron is designed for wetter areas, off-grid, bad generator or shore power feed-in etc. Tough buggers these units.

    Easysolar/MPII - the same model MPII has the exact same inverter inside.
    Easysolar has all the salient parts combined in one nice unit. Less wires, easier install, neater ... same as GoodWE. And you can add as many extra MPPT's as you want.
    With the Multiplus II you now add any MPPT, VenusGX, Octo or a RPI with the Venus software, or not, the true LEGO side of the offering.

    The funny thing is, the price difference between the Easysolar / all the parts separate, is none. Costs the same.

    Goes back to what do you prefer/like?
    Last edited by the_terrible_triplett; 2020/06/09 at 05:34 PM.
    Political Correctness
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    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

  12. #30
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by NewLandy View Post
    They're not priced too badly..R900 landed cost......
    https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...6cd7b917aGAJC4
    I did the costs for a +-7kwh bank between BYD, Revov, Pylontech, and a few other brand names.
    And I knew I must get 15kwh in the end.

    Bought 16 x 150ah cells with BMS delivered for <R26k.
    So a 15kwh bank, building ones own, comes to about +-R50k.

    Do the sums today for a 15kwh on BYD, Revov, Pylontech, BlueNova ... my eyes popped.

    Just keep in mind: Can your inverter run on a non-interfaced BMS?
    Victron's rule is simple: Make sure the bank is big enough, or else the BMS will switch the inverter off.
    Thing is, that applies to ANY inverter in any event.
    The BMS will switch the batts off.

    And it is advisable to get a BMV if one goes for a non-interfacing BMS on Victron.
    From what I've read so far, most BMS gives a SOC yes, but not a very accurate one because most do not use a shunt to determine the in/out for the batt.

    If you want a BMS to give a accurate SOC, it needs a shunt, and they cost plenty bucks.
    Like i.e. a Watchmon4 for Blockmon-M8 and Expansion - R15 082.98 excl delivery for 16 cells, a shunt an some support incl.
    Political Correctness
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional illogical minority, rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd ... by the clean end!

    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

  13. #31
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    No problem and thank you.
    Don't want to bash any make either.

    My only intention is to share what the equipment is capable of so that people have more insight before purchasing, even if it cost more, rather than buying on price alone only to realise later, having read about the possibilities here or elsewhere, when they one day realise they cannot do XYZ with what they've bought.

    The thing with comparing apples with apples is that the subtle differences makes it very tough.
    Like we used to compare Axpert with Victron ... huge bun fights with price always winning, till someone pointed out three things:
    1) Victron vs Axpert is like comparing fruit with vegetables i.e. off-grid with a true hybrid grid tied inverter.
    2) Axpert are not on the NRS list. That hit the Cpt solar users the hardest - because Cpt was the first to enforce the regs, CoCT allegedly being pushed by NERSA's to do so.
    3) Aftersales support from Voltronics being non-existent.


    Victron vs GoodWE, as per a GoodWE supporter:
    GoodWE is for a home user wanting to plug and play and not be bothered to tweak nor change anything, who will stick to the "rules", not drill down into the lowest levels of data.
    Versus
    Victron, having the option for plug and play, stick to the "rules", installed by a installer for the home user.
    OR ... the users who make their own "rules" up as they go (T&C's apply).
    That is being done by mixing matching programing all the components to ones hearts content, adding parts like LEGO, expanding the system, also allowing them to use any type/make/model battery they ever may want to.

    I have a feeling it boils down to ones personality ... ?




    Yes, Victron is designed for wetter areas, off-grid, bad generator or shore power feed-in etc. Tough buggers these units.

    Easysolar/MPII - the same model MPII has the exact same inverter inside.
    Easysolar has all the salient parts combined in one nice unit. Less wires, easier install, neater ... same as GoodWE. And you can add as many extra MPPT's as you want.
    With the Multiplus II you now add any MPPT, VenusGX, Octo or a RPI with the Venus software, or not, the true LEGO side of the offering.

    The funny thing is, the price difference between the Easysolar / all the parts separate, is none. Costs the same.

    Goes back to what do you prefer/like?
    The trouble with victron is its confusing as to what is required for a complete system.

    For Easysolar, what is the complete shopping list, just for inverter parts, not panels?

  14. #32
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by NewLandy View Post
    The trouble with victron is its confusing as to what is required for a complete system.

    For Easysolar, what is the complete shopping list, just for inverter parts, not panels?
    Same like getting into 4x4ing ... you need to walk the talk before you can talk the walk.

    I would strenuously suggest one looks at a NRS approved inverter if you are connecting the inverter to your DB.
    You don not want to be caught flatfooted in the future, call it future proofing.

    If one wants to grid tie, or not, this is what I have narrowed the list down to.

    Here is a list to simplify Victron for anyone ... just like LEGO:

    Choose ONE Inverter:
    Victron MultiPlus II Inverter 48/3000/35-32 230V - 3.5kw array for a 3kva i.e. 2.4kw grid tied, temp derating to 1.7kw
    Victron MultiPlus II Inverter 48/5000/70-50 230V - 5kw array for a 5kva i.e. 4kw grid tied, temp derating to 3kw


    Base on inverter, choose one, or more, MPPT/'s:
    Victron SmartSolar MPPT 150/35- Tr
    Victron Smart Solar MPPT 150/60-Tr
    Victron SmartSolar MPPT 150/100-Tr
    Victron SmartSolar MPPT 250/70-Tr
    Victron SmartSolar MPPT 250/100-Tr


    Cables required:
    1 x Victron Interface MK3-USB to program inverter - Optional if one can borrow one from a friend once in a while.
    1 x VE.Direct Cable 1.8m (one side right angle conn) - connects MPPT to VenusGX
    Suggest to do at least 50mm2 battery cables, MAX 4m return, else go 70mm2. Just do that.


    The Brains of the system - ESS:
    1 x Victron VenusGX or Octo or DIY with Raspberry Pi


    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    All the above is in a Easysolar. Same price, for the 3kva inverter.
    Easysolar is not on the NRS list as yet. Cost apparently Euro 7000 (+-R100 000) to get a model tested.
    MultiplusGX, 3kva / 5kva includes a VenusGX.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------


    DB Board installs and comms cable:
    1 x Carlo Gavazzi ET112 Energy meter - single phase - gives one A LOT more data than just a current sensor.
    1 x RS485 to USB interface cable 5m - connecting the Carlo to the VenusGX
    2 x Onesto Double pole 40kA 275V AC Surge Arrestor - one before inverter and one after, just do that.


    Battery side:
    2 x Victron MEGA Fuse Holder - On Pos and Neg
    3 x Victron MEGA-fuse 125A/58V + 1 spare


    For Lead Acid batteries or non-interfacing BMS:
    1 x Victron Precision Battery Monitor BMV-712 Smart - highly recommended if you want to stick as best one can to the batteries cycles.
    Or get the new Smartshunt BMV. No display.

    What else?
    Panels - I like Canadian Solar, they work as advertised.
    Frames
    Wires - 6mm2
    Combiner box
    Political Correctness
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional illogical minority, rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd ... by the clean end!

    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

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  16. #33
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    Same like getting into 4x4ing ... you need to walk the talk before you can talk the walk.

    I would strenuously suggest one looks at a NRS approved inverter if you are connecting the inverter to your DB.
    You don not want to be caught flatfooted in the future, call it future proofing.

    If one wants to grid tie, or not, this is what I have narrowed the list down to.

    Here is a list to simplify Victron for anyone ... just like LEGO:

    Choose ONE Inverter:
    Victron MultiPlus II Inverter 48/3000/35-32 230V - 3.5kw array for a 3kva i.e. 2.4kw grid tied, temp derating to 1.7kw
    Victron MultiPlus II Inverter 48/5000/70-50 230V - 5kw array for a 5kva i.e. 4kw grid tied, temp derating to 3kw


    Base on inverter, choose one, or more, MPPT/'s:
    Victron SmartSolar MPPT 150/35- Tr
    Victron Smart Solar MPPT 150/60-Tr
    Victron SmartSolar MPPT 150/100-Tr
    Victron SmartSolar MPPT 250/70-Tr
    Victron SmartSolar MPPT 250/100-Tr


    Cables required:
    1 x Victron Interface MK3-USB to program inverter - Optional if one can borrow one from a friend once in a while.
    1 x VE.Direct Cable 1.8m (one side right angle conn) - connects MPPT to VenusGX
    Suggest to do at least 50mm2 battery cables, MAX 4m return, else go 70mm2. Just do that.


    The Brains of the system - ESS:
    1 x Victron VenusGX or Octo or DIY with Raspberry Pi


    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    All the above is in a Easysolar. Same price, for the 3kva inverter.
    Easysolar is not on the NRS list as yet. Cost apparently Euro 7000 (+-R100 000) to get a model tested.
    MultiplusGX, 3kva / 5kva includes a VenusGX.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------


    DB Board installs and comms cable:
    1 x Carlo Gavazzi ET112 Energy meter - single phase - gives one A LOT more data than just a current sensor.
    1 x RS485 to USB interface cable 5m - connecting the Carlo to the VenusGX
    2 x Onesto Double pole 40kA 275V AC Surge Arrestor - one before inverter and one after, just do that.


    Battery side:
    2 x Victron MEGA Fuse Holder - On Pos and Neg
    3 x Victron MEGA-fuse 125A/58V + 1 spare


    For Lead Acid batteries or non-interfacing BMS:
    1 x Victron Precision Battery Monitor BMV-712 Smart - highly recommended if you want to stick as best one can to the batteries cycles.
    Or get the new Smartshunt BMV. No display.

    What else?
    Panels - I like Canadian Solar, they work as advertised.
    Frames
    Wires - 6mm2
    Combiner box

    I still wanted to ask you to give more details on your installation, but here it is, thanks. I like Victron's way of doing things and playing with the idea in the back of my head, dreeming more than anything else at this stage.

    A question for you. You started with a 3000 Multiplus II and later upgraded to a 5000 due to the temp derating. Is there a specific reason why you didn't just add a second 3000 in parallel to the first?
    It's in pubs where the world's greatest ideas begin.

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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy529 View Post
    A question for you. You started with a 3000 Multiplus II and later upgraded to a 5000 due to the temp derating. Is there a specific reason why you didn't just add a second 3000 in parallel to the first?
    Yes, I could have added a 2nd 3kva.

    Bar the costs, I sold my 3kva 24v Multigrid to a person a couple of months before, I wanted to try 48v MPII 3kva.
    The person I sold it to, AS they connected it to the DB, a lightning strike happened, they have that problem.
    The Multigrid blew - sparkie had to visit and explain in detail why the lightning protection did not work.

    Any case, he needed another 3kva inverter after the insurance paid out.
    I wanted to try a 5kva seeing that I'm maxing the 3kva ito the temp derating, needing a min of 2.4kw from 11am - 3pm every day.

    So I got a 5kva instead of 2 x 3kva.
    Political Correctness
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional illogical minority, rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd ... by the clean end!

    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    Yes, I could have added a 2nd 3kva.

    Bar the costs, I sold my 3kva 24v Multigrid to a person a couple of months before, I wanted to try 48v MPII 3kva.
    The person I sold it to, AS they connected it to the DB, a lightning strike happened, they have that problem.
    The Multigrid blew - sparkie had to visit and explain in detail why the lightning protection did not work.

    Any case, he needed another 3kva inverter after the insurance paid out.
    I wanted to try a 5kva seeing that I'm maxing the 3kva ito the temp derating, needing a min of 2.4kw from 11am - 3pm every day.

    So I got a 5kva instead of 2 x 3kva.


    Starting out, can you use the Multiplus II as grid tied only without batteries, or am I pushing my luck now?
    It's in pubs where the world's greatest ideas begin.

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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy529 View Post
    I like Victron's way of doing things and playing with the idea in the back of my head, dreeming more than anything else at this stage.
    If you want, do it in phases, as I did, spreading the solar costs. For example:
    Split the DB and do the tests CoCT requires for SSEG installs on the DB. Our earth was shot, if not for the SSEG application required tests, would never have known that.
    And yes, it was a huge unforeseen cost.
    See circuit diagram attached.

    At this time:
    Install the changeover switch, to switch the 2nd DB back to the main DB.
    Install the 2 x Onesto Double pole 40kA 275V AC Surge Arrestors - one in the main DB, and one in the 2nd DB.
    Install the Carlo Gavazzi ET112 Energy meter in the main DB immediately after then main breaker on the main DB, that it sees all that comes in from the street.
    Connect the RS485 to USB interface cable to the Carlo.

    Next get the VenusGX:
    Connect the RS485 cable to the VenusGX, register on Victron's portal, and start harvesting data to see exactly what your power needs are on your house.


    Now sit back and watch your power needs.


    Based on the data you now have, decide 3kva or 5kva?
    Remember: With grid-tied, you don't worry about 10kw peaks! Eskom sorts that, not the inverter.
    Based on the inverter size (loads) you choose, choose the MPPT size you need ito array you require for the inverter and batteries you want.
    Choose the batteries based on the min suggested for the inverter.

    My rule of thumb, for grid tied, loads scheduled, ito panelling:
    +-3.5kw array for a 3kva
    +-5kw array for a 5kva

    MPPT/'s:
    Buy the Smart ranges, they have Bluetooth built in, so much easier.
    When looking at MPPT's, check the max wattage per volt band like on a 150/35 it is 2kw paneling on 48v. So you need 2 of them for 3.5kw - 4kw paneling.
    Then look at the 150/60 - 250/100 to match the panels to MPPT to the inverter.

    Panels:
    I saw that the larger the panels, the cheaper they are per watt, and the cheaper it becomes to mount them. Less parts needed.

    Batteries:
    Go lithium. I have had Trojan banks for years now, lithium simply is mind boggling compared to lead acid.
    And if you buy the cells, build your own lithium bank, cheaper than lead acid. :-)
    And get a BMV-712 Smart ... has Bluetooth, so much easier.


    ... and so you build towards the final setup, the inverter.
    Took me a few years with a few parts bought/sold on this road to where I'm now sitting at.


    Attached:
    Circuit diagram to consider.
    The 2nd DB with Surge protection in, circuits having been moved from main DB.
    Novel Combiner box with lightning protection using 16amp No-Ark breakers to be able to take 10 x 350w panels on 5 strings to 20 x 350w panels on 5 strings on a 250/100 MPPT.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Political Correctness
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional illogical minority, rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd ... by the clean end!

    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

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  22. #37
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy529 View Post
    Starting out, can you use the Multiplus II as grid tied only without batteries, or am I pushing my luck now?
    Nope, it is a hybrid ... BUT ... nothing stops you from buying 2nd hand or really cheap batteries, just to tie you over!!!
    Then use the batts lightly. And when you replace them, sell the lead to a scrap yard to off-set the costs of the lithium cells.

    Or look for guys selling 2nd hand banks. Like this: 2nd hand Trojan bank, sold at a wee bit more than the pre-Covid lead prices.
    Political Correctness
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional illogical minority, rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd ... by the clean end!

    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    The specs for the Multiplus 2 state DC input max 66Volts, how does this relate to the MPPT's or am I looking at the wrong info?

    DC Input voltage range - 38 – 66V, cant find the Amp rating..

    Canadian solar panels 8Amps 40V approximately...
    Last edited by NewLandy; 2020/06/10 at 11:57 AM.

  24. #39
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by NewLandy View Post
    The specs for the Multiplus 2 state DC input max 66Volts, how does this relate to the MPPT's or am I looking at the wrong info?
    DC Input voltage range - 38 – 66V, cant find the Amp rating..
    Canadian solar panels 8Amps 40V approximately...
    Jip, looking at it from the wrong angle.

    Angle one:
    Inverter max DC amps is as per the specs ito continuous draw from batts AND the max AC peaks it can handle for seconds drawn from the batteries at 12/24/48v.
    Very NB to make sure of the AH of the bank, that the bank matches the inverters capabilities.
    Alternatively limit the inverter if you have a smaller bank.

    Angle two:
    From panels to MPPT: Max input volts of the 150v/250v
    From MPPT to the batts: MPPT converts the higher volts / lower amps very efficiently to the max battery volts / amps the batteries can use.


    Victron MPPT's explained:
    150/35 is 150v max input with max 35amps max output to the batts
    150/100 is 150v max input with max 100amps max output to the batts
    250/100 is 250v max input with max 100amps max output to the batts

    You program the MPPT to match your batts Bulk/Absorb/Float volts and set the max amps the MPPT must send to the batts.
    And if you have lithiums, easy, set the MPPT to lithium and configure the Bulk/Float you want, upping the charge amps for your lithiums.
    Last edited by the_terrible_triplett; 2020/06/10 at 12:15 PM.
    Political Correctness
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional illogical minority, rabidly promoted by a unscrupulous mainstream media which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd ... by the clean end!

    Saw this in a pub - no idea why the wife does not see it so:
    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right!

  25. #40
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    Default Re: Solar System for Home ( yet another :)

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    If you want, do it in phases, as I did, spreading the solar costs. For example:
    Split the DB and do the tests CoCT requires for SSEG installs on the DB. Our earth was shot, if not for the SSEG application required tests, would never have known that.
    And yes, it was a huge unforeseen cost.
    See circuit diagram attached.

    At this time:
    Install the changeover switch, to switch the 2nd DB back to the main DB.
    Install the 2 x Onesto Double pole 40kA 275V AC Surge Arrestors - one in the main DB, and one in the 2nd DB.
    Install the Carlo Gavazzi ET112 Energy meter in the main DB immediately after then main breaker on the main DB, that it sees all that comes in from the street.
    Connect the RS485 to USB interface cable to the Carlo.

    Next get the VenusGX:
    Connect the RS485 cable to the VenusGX, register on Victron's portal, and start harvesting data to see exactly what your power needs are on your house.


    Now sit back and watch your power needs.


    Based on the data you now have, decide 3kva or 5kva?
    Remember: With grid-tied, you don't worry about 10kw peaks! Eskom sorts that, not the inverter.
    Based on the inverter size (loads) you choose, choose the MPPT size you need ito array you require for the inverter and batteries you want.
    Choose the batteries based on the min suggested for the inverter.

    My rule of thumb, for grid tied, loads scheduled, ito panelling:
    +-3.5kw array for a 3kva
    +-5kw array for a 5kva

    MPPT/'s:
    Buy the Smart ranges, they have Bluetooth built in, so much easier.
    When looking at MPPT's, check the max wattage per volt band like on a 150/35 it is 2kw paneling on 48v. So you need 2 of them for 3.5kw - 4kw paneling.
    Then look at the 150/60 - 250/100 to match the panels to MPPT to the inverter.

    Panels:
    I saw that the larger the panels, the cheaper they are per watt, and the cheaper it becomes to mount them. Less parts needed.

    Batteries:
    Go lithium. I have had Trojan banks for years now, lithium simply is mind boggling compared to lead acid.
    And if you buy the cells, build your own lithium bank, cheaper than lead acid. :-)
    And get a BMV-712 Smart ... has Bluetooth, so much easier.


    ... and so you build towards the final setup, the inverter.
    Took me a few years with a few parts bought/sold on this road to where I'm now sitting at.


    Attached:
    Circuit diagram to consider.
    The 2nd DB with Surge protection in, circuits having been moved from main DB.
    Novel Combiner box with lightning protection using 16amp No-Ark breakers to be able to take 10 x 350w panels on 5 strings to 20 x 350w panels on 5 strings on a 250/100 MPPT.

    dont wish to hijack the thread, what is your opinion on the MLT Oasis off grid inverters ? these are similarly priced to Victron and manufactured in CT and hence repairs and support are local.
    https://mltinverters.com/our-products/oasis-inverter/
    https://mltinverters.com/our-products/nomad/
    Putta
    Landcruiser 105
    BL Miskruier B850

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