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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Best 4x4 tires for deep sand

    very interesting comments from all contributors.
    According to my experience with a cruiser 79 +1HZ ( much torque at low revs.) BFG MTs are not good on tar roads but once arriving in sand, mud, rocks,slopes, they are just impressive.
    In addition to pressure, momentum, driver skills, tread pattern ect.. I believe that one important thing to take into account when choosing a tyre, is the final total diameter of the wheel once in its rim.
    A large diameter will always work better in sand and mud.
    I think that is much more important to focus on the total diameter of the wheel than on its width.
    As I use my car mostly in mud and sand I always choose the tyre size that could give the larger wheel diameter that can fit my vehicle.
    Main inconvenient is that the center of gravity is higher and the vehicle could be less stable.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Best 4x4 tires for deep sand

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    this is what they run

    That tyre is pretty widely used across Kuwait, saudi, UAE, Qatar etc where soft sand/dune sand driving is the norm. They call them 'Siami' or balloon tyres - very soft sidewalls, almost no lateral tread, just longitudinal grooves. The whole principle is to swell and float. They are truly good on soft sand but the bad side is they're also pretty horrible on the road - even fully inflated they have quite a scary 'squirelling' or weaving feeling at anything over 100k's. Quite a few companies make them -Maxxis, Siam, Somitomo but probably not sold much outside the Middle East. In some countries (UAE, Qatar) they're illegal for road use but mostly ignored.
    In general I think the principal for serious soft sand driving is 'float, don't dig'.


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  4. #63
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    Default Re: Best 4x4 tires for deep sand

    [QUOTE=Gomario;4402476]Hello everyone. Which tire profile do you think is best for sand? ATs (All Terrain) or MTs (Mud Tracks)?
    I prefer the less aggressive AT tires but the MTs look damn nice

    I had a set of BFG A/T on my Diesel Pajero, even at low pressures it would dig in and I would get stuck.
    When the time came I could not find BFG's, they were replaced with Bridgestone 694 A/T, huge improvement on sand but they were prone to punctures.
    I replaced them with Cooper's A/T which I think are even better in Namibian sand.
    We travel thousands of Km on tar every year and only a very small % of our driving is sand, gravel or off road conditions. Dedicated sand or mud tyres does not make sense for our application.

    During the Angolan bush war I noticed that all the UniMog's and Caspirs that had very course tyres used considerably more fuel than those that had smoother pattern tyres.
    They also had to shift to lower gears in very deep loose sand.

    Obviously if the requirement is to sprint up a steep short hill go for a 800hp sand monster with paddle wheels.
    If it involves many days of sedate sand, gravel or tar driving go for A/T's.

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  6. #64
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    Default Re: Best 4x4 tires for deep sand

    Quote Originally Posted by Suikersteen View Post
    That tyre is pretty widely used across Kuwait, saudi, UAE, Qatar etc where soft sand/dune sand driving is the norm. They call them 'Siami' or balloon tyres - very soft sidewalls, almost no lateral tread, just longitudinal grooves. The whole principle is to swell and float. They are truly good on soft sand but the bad side is they're also pretty horrible on the road - even fully inflated they have quite a scary 'squirelling' or weaving feeling at anything over 100k's. Quite a few companies make them -Maxxis, Siam, Somitomo but probably not sold much outside the Middle East. In some countries (UAE, Qatar) they're illegal for road use but mostly ignored.
    In general I think the principal for serious soft sand driving is 'float, don't dig'.


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    100% Agreed, the Arabs have figured out exactly what works. For a more road biased tyre Bridgestone Duelers and Yokohamas are also popular in the UAE, relatively cheap and float well on sand when deflated. The Bridgestones and Yokos are a softer tyre. MT are for..... MUD. Soft sand is not MUD!!
    If you see MT in the middle east on a 4x4, it's a clueless expat who got taken for a ride by the Tyre shop, or he's trying to make up for something small.

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    Default Re: Best 4x4 tires for deep sand

    Quote Originally Posted by rayniersteyn View Post
    100% Agreed, the Arabs have figured out exactly what works. For a more road biased tyre Bridgestone Duelers and Yokohamas are also popular in the UAE, relatively cheap and float well on sand when deflated. The Bridgestones and Yokos are a softer tyre. MT are for..... MUD. Soft sand is not MUD!!
    If you see MT in the middle east on a 4x4, it's a clueless expat who got taken for a ride by the Tyre shop, or he's trying to make up for something small.
    And in the UEA dune drags they use slicks? The last time I have checked their drags it were scoopers. But you are welcome and I challenge you to go up further with slicks in the Namib, Kalahari or West Coast. Be free to join us for a weekend at Waterford. Just bring along those Arab tyres and show us. The Arbs uses speed and momentum no technical dne driving or crawling. Like Dirk said show me crawling up a dune with those slicks.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

  8. #66
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    Default Re: Best 4x4 tires for deep sand

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    And in the UEA dune drags they use slicks? The last time I have checked their drags it were scoopers. But you are welcome and I challenge you to go up further with slicks in the Namib, Kalahari or West Coast. Be free to join us for a weekend at Waterford. Just bring along those Arab tyres and show us. The Arbs uses speed and momentum no technical dne driving or crawling. Like Dirk said show me crawling up a dune with those slicks.
    Ok, I want something to drive on sandy roads (mostly Mozambique), now we ended up talking and reasoning about dune drags... I love this forum...
    I love Mozambique!

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    Default Re: Best 4x4 tires for deep sand

    Quote Originally Posted by Gomario View Post
    Ok, I want something to drive on sandy roads (mostly Mozambique), now we ended up talking and reasoning about dune drags... I love this forum...
    The title of the thread which is the best 4x4 tyre for deep sand.

    You never mentioned Moz in your first post. It is expected that you will have a wide verity of opinions.
    I am sure if you clearly stated you need them for Moz most of the replies would have differ.
    The question were what tyre is the best for deep sand AT or MT ? Think you got the answers you ask for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gomario View Post
    Hello everyone. Which tire profile do you think is best for sand? ATs (All Terrain) or MTs (Mud Tracks)?
    I preffer the less aggressive AT tires but the MTs look damn nice
    Which are the most effective ones though?
    Last edited by grips; 2020/06/09 at 05:08 AM.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

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  11. #68
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    Default Re: Best 4x4 tires for deep sand

    I am in the UAE and spend a lot of time in the big dunes in the south of the country. Also messing about on camping trips near Dubai, and in the mountains. The camel farmers here normally drive LC 70 series pickups and some fit balloon-type tires but they normally stick with the skinny stock tires. As Lance Armstrong said, it's not about the bike! They are not rich people and drive slowly and carefully, often with huge loads in the bed. I don't think I have ever seen one of these guys stuck...on the other hand, the local guys who go out dune-bashing in their Patrols and LCs, who generally have deeper pockets than I do, will have a very wide range of aftermarket tires (particularly the big balloons), suspension, lift kits. These guys are often very skilled and they are not hammering their expensive cars (they do go out to some of the big dunes with their souped-up 1000bhp fun cars, but that is a different story...)

    'Normal' people who want to go out and play, or are using the dunes for recreation, will generally fit AT tires (Very rarely see MT- the tread pattern is deep and cuts into the dune surface, when when very deflated, although they do look great). On sand, the objective is to sit on top of the sand rather than drive 'through' it. So your driving style, tire pressure, speed, line, braking/throttle etc all need to be managed to help you stay on top rather than dig in. The difference is very clear once you start to dig in- so perhaps the best way to think about it is to first accept that your tires won't keep you out of trouble if you are driving in a way that is unsuitable for the terrain/conditions; and also to fit tires that are going to get you safely to and from the sand, when you will probably be on roads, which might be wet, and in a vehicle that might be close to its maximum weight.

    In my opinion, it doesn't make sense to buy sand-specific tires unless you are spending all your time in the dunes. I believe you need tires that are suitable and usable for all conditions. I have switched between Toyo AT2 and BFG KO2. Both are very good in all conditions.

    The main criterion for driving in sand, apart from driver skill & experience, is to deflate. My truck (Ford F150) has 35" tires and I deflate to 14psi on sand. I can go lower if the sand is very soft but then I need to be careful not to debead. If I get stuck, the first thing I do is reduce the tire pressure, sometimes as low as 5-8psi. I reinflate to 14psi as soon as I am unstuck. I also drive a LC/LX570 and have switched from the stock Dunlop Grandtrek (nice road tires but very susceptible to sidewall damage, as I have unfortunately experienced several times; and uneven wear) to aluminium rims and BFGs. I deflate to around 12psi with this car.

    In my view, your tire needs a very strong sidewall as this area is vulnerable when you are running at low pressures. It is also unlikely that you will spend so much time on sand that you can have a full time balloon-type tire (the best for sand conditions, for sure) as they are shocking on wet roads and also unusable on rough ground.

    If I had to have one tire for the driving here- on and off road in deep sand and rocky mountains, I would go for the KO2s. All my friends have different preferences, though!
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    Last edited by rorywg; 2020/06/09 at 06:33 AM.

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  13. #69
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    Default Re: Best 4x4 tires for deep sand

    Quote Originally Posted by Gomario View Post
    Ok, I want something to drive on sandy roads (mostly Mozambique), now we ended up talking and reasoning about dune drags... I love this forum...
    So now here's another cat in the pigeon coop:

    For sandy tracks travelled by lots of other cars (like you will find in Moz) you want a combination of tall and NARROW. Not wide.

    Narrow tires ride in the hard-packed bottom of the furrows, while wide tires have to push the sand in the sides of the furrows away all the time. But, you also need to ensure that your track width is the same front to rear, within a few mm at least.
    1996 Patrol 4.2SGL with lots of stuff to make it heavier and thus increase traction?

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    Default Re: Best 4x4 tires for deep sand

    Quote Originally Posted by rorywg View Post
    I am in the UAE and spend a lot of time in the big dunes in the south of the country. Also messing about on camping trips near Dubai, and in the mountains. The camel farmers here normally drive LC 70 series pickups and some fit balloon-type tires but they normally stick with the skinny stock tires. As Lance Armstrong said, it's not about the bike! They are not rich people and drive slowly and carefully, often with huge loads in the bed. I don't think I have ever seen one of these guys stuck...on the other hand, the local guys who go out dune-bashing in their Patrols and LCs, who generally have deeper pockets than I do, will have a very wide range of aftermarket tires (particularly the big balloons), suspension, lift kits. These guys are often very skilled and they are not hammering their expensive cars (they do go out to some of the big dunes with their souped-up 1000bhp fun cars, but that is a different story...)

    'Normal' people who want to go out and play, or are using the dunes for recreation, will generally fit AT tires (Very rarely see MT- the tread pattern is deep and cuts into the dune surface, when when very deflated, although they do look great). On sand, the objective is to sit on top of the sand rather than drive 'through' it. So your driving style, tire pressure, speed, line, braking/throttle etc all need to be managed to help you stay on top rather than dig in. The difference is very clear once you start to dig in- so perhaps the best way to think about it is to first accept that your tires won't keep you out of trouble if you are driving in a way that is unsuitable for the terrain/conditions; and also to fit tires that are going to get you safely to and from the sand, when you will probably be on roads, which might be wet, and in a vehicle that might be close to its maximum weight.

    In my opinion, it doesn't make sense to buy sand-specific tires unless you are spending all your time in the dunes. I believe you need tires that are suitable and usable for all conditions. I have switched between Toyo AT2 and BFG KO2. Both are very good in all conditions.

    The main criterion for driving in sand, apart from driver skill & experience, is to deflate. My truck (Ford F150) has 35" tires and I deflate to 14psi on sand. I can go lower if the sand is very soft but then I need to be careful not to debead. If I get stuck, the first thing I do is reduce the tire pressure, sometimes as low as 5-8psi. I reinflate to 14psi as soon as I am unstuck. I also drive a LC/LX570 and have switched from the stock Dunlop Grandtrek (nice road tires but very susceptible to sidewall damage, as I have unfortunately experienced several times; and uneven wear) to aluminium rims and BFGs. I deflate to around 12psi with this car.

    In my view, your tire needs a very strong sidewall as this area is vulnerable when you are running at low pressures. It is also unlikely that you will spend so much time on sand that you can have a full time balloon-type tire (the best for sand conditions, for sure) as they are shocking on wet roads and also unusable on rough ground.

    If I had to have one tire for the driving here- on and off road in deep sand and rocky mountains, I would go for the KO2s. All my friends have different preferences, though!
    Love that F150
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

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  17. #71
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    Default Re: Best 4x4 tires for deep sand

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    Love that F150
    me too! Had some great adventures in it... 6.2L of V8 can never be wrong!! Although it was really built for Baja-type racing it is phenomenal in technical dunes- great balance, approach/departure angles and lots of suspension travel. It is a lot of power (450bhp in old money) so it is easy to get into trouble, but I've learned my lessons and try to minimise the damage these days...

    Here's one more pic from the album!
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    Default Re: Best 4x4 tires for deep sand

    Do you ever go out to Big Red?? I almost got wiped out there by a lunatic arab in a dune buggy
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    Default Re: Best 4x4 tires for deep sand

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtshark View Post
    Do you ever go out to Big Red?? I almost got wiped out there by a lunatic arab in a dune buggy
    yes, but never again! Too many lunatics, of all nationalities, with too much horsepower. It's like the battle of britain- fokkers coming from all directions!

    We are much happier a few hundred km to the south where the dunes are even bigger but untracked. Total silence, no rubbish, amazing stars and beautiful places to camp.

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  22. #74
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    Default Re: Best 4x4 tires for deep sand

    Quote Originally Posted by rorywg View Post
    It's like the battle of britain- fokkers coming from all directions! .
    I see what you did there
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  24. #75
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    Default Re: Best 4x4 tires for deep sand

    Quote Originally Posted by Hendel1986 View Post
    Have a look at this video as well, might help:

    https://youtu.be/M6j2jia0kII
    Glad I read through the posts, this video was exactly what came to mind. Very sensible comparative testing.
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