Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76





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  1. #1
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    Default Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    I have been struggling with a mild hum /vibration “somewhere near the back” since buying the bus a few years back. I have checked everything, and I mean everything including the front end, except for the diff and transfer case flange angles.
    Now, I came from a Land Rover series 2, so the ride and comfort (and noises) was perfectly acceptable, bordering on luxury.

    Let’s rewind a bit shall we. She came with a modified suspension, which looks like OME, but I am not sure of the amount of lift. The vehicle does not look madly lifted, but yes I think a bit more than standard.

    The rear leaves carry the number LCR 76.50.350 along with the pics, could someone identify these for me please.



    Looking at the flange angles, the TX case is almost flat, possible a degree or two down (pointing towards the diff). The diff is at about 8 or more degrees, (Pointing towards the TX case.). Google tells me that this is too much and that the flange angles should be as close to vertical as possible, and at least the flanges should be parallel to each other (same angle). This for a single prop with UJ either ends.
    So, at the very least I need a wedge to bring the diff flange angle to more or less the same as the TX case flange angle Right??.
    Now, if the back was not done properly, what about the front end regarding caster angle? The front flange angle is about the same as the back. Surprise surprise, So again it will mismatch to the TX case. Probably less noticeable because it is only engaged on rough surfaces.
    The ride has seemed OK, but then remember my LR background, no unsolicited lane changes or tram lineing, but, thinking about it, she does not self -correct very well, but still safely. She did, however, get a little loose on a steepish downhill corner on tar at about 110km with a roof top tent fitted. So, all may not be well.
    Questions:
    Is the wedgie the way to go on the rear springs?
    Where do you get them in SA?
    What leaves are these and where can a get a data sheet.
    If the rear needs correction, then the front should as well? Ja
    Are offset bushes the way to go on the front end?
    What make of offset bushes and from whom??
    The vehicle is not “wheeled or pulled through my naught” and spends a lot of time on tar and long heavy holidays are done in Central, Mabua, Richters velt and the like.

    Regards
    George.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    That is Old Man Emu shocks with extended rear shackles.
    Springs and coils looks like standard Toyota part.

    Toyota Land Cruiser 79 DC V8
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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    Extended rear shackles will cause the pinion to point in the wrong direction, so you need wedges to correct the angle and restore propshaft input/output alignment to minimise the hum.
    Lifting the front with the leading radius arm suspension leads to a reduction in steering trail (castor angle) and can lead to dangerous steering vagueness and instability. To restore trail you will need either castor correction bushes (but they never last well in higher flex use due to the "thin" rubber side failing), or radius arms with the correct castor correction built in. Do not just hot bend the existing radius arms, it may lead to incorrect metalurgical outcomes which may cause cracking.
    '89 LR 110 V8

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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    Thank you Mike
    Do you have any experiance with the plate method of correcting the front casrter. This is where you redrill the front arm hole on the axel and use plates and spacers to strengthen the new position.
    https://www.amazon.com/Dobinsons-Cas.../dp/B01LYKOR9S

    George

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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    Quote Originally Posted by Gengis View Post
    Thank you Mike
    Do you have any experiance with the plate method of correcting the front casrter. This is where you redrill the front arm hole on the axel and use plates and spacers to strengthen the new position.
    https://www.amazon.com/Dobinsons-Cas.../dp/B01LYKOR9S

    George
    Called relocation kit. In person I think it is a better option than castor correction bushes. Very important is to set the Castor to OEM specs and then check the holes before drilling the new locations.
    Me also think the only accurate way is to remove the knuckles and use the pin holes as reference.

    I have longer shackles on my 79 Cruiser with no ill effects.

    Also check out your prop shaft for being true. Very easy to damage a Cruiser rear prop shaft. I know of a few cases where it hapend.
    Last edited by grips; 2020/05/27 at 03:02 PM.
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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    I'd start with the shaft and eliminate that. Also, does the 76 have a carrier bearing?...........
    2012 Jeep Sahara Unlimited 3.6 V6
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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    ...

    Also check out your prop shaft for being true. Very easy to damage a Cruiser rear prop shaft. I know of a few cases where it hapend.
    Rear end vibrations always sounds worse in a SW body than in a bakkie/DC.
    Last edited by Mike N; 2020/05/28 at 08:04 AM.
    '89 LR 110 V8

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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    Umm, as per the first post, drive line (Prop shaft) has been checked, tested and rebuilt, so unless it's bent and the company doing the work are bull shitting me, then I think this one is done. Its a single prop shaft bu the way. I done believe that any 70 series have split props, but i may be wrong.

    G

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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    Quote Originally Posted by Gengis View Post
    Umm, as per the first post, drive line (Prop shaft) has been checked, tested and rebuilt, so unless it's bent and the company doing the work are bull shitting me, then I think this one is done. Its a single prop shaft bu the way. I done believe that any 70 series have split props, but i may be wrong.

    G
    Ah OK, hidden in the "I've checked everything" comment?
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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike N View Post
    Rear end vibrations always sounds worse in a SW body than in a bakkie/DC.
    Jy is reg Mike . Het lank gesukkel met my 76 en toe maak ek hom Full Time 4x4 en nou loop hy stil soos ń nagmuis.
    Terselfdertyd het die links trek , wat al die 70's se probleem is ook verdwyn .
    Maak toe my 79 ook Full Time 4x4 met dieselfde resultate .
    Saam met dit kry ek toe sommer baie beter padhou vermoë , veral op nat teer en grond paaie .
    Cruiser 76 EFI 4.5 FullTime 4x4
    Cruiser 78 4.2 Diesel
    Cruiser 79 4.2 Diesel Full Time 4x4

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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    Quote Originally Posted by Swart Jan View Post
    Jy is reg Mike . Het lank gesukkel met my 76 en toe maak ek hom Full Time 4x4 en nou loop hy stil soos ń nagmuis.
    Terselfdertyd het die links trek , wat al die 70's se probleem is ook verdwyn .
    Maak toe my 79 ook Full Time 4x4 met dieselfde resultate .
    Saam met dit kry ek toe sommer baie beter padhou vermoë , veral op nat teer en grond paaie .
    Is die voor swivel hubs CV of UJ?
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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    Cruisers are usually fine with lifts of around 50mm from stock. With just extended shackles I don't see the lift causing the issues.

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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    Yes in an empty wagon riding high with no load and coasting , you will hear it for sure.
    On long trips I carry a fair load, so this helps to muffel the noise and probabaly changes the flange angles a bit in the favor of less hum.
    I have found a place to make up the wedges so I will measure up on the weekend. Probably jam in some metal scrap until I am happy with the angle, go for a gentle ride and if it's sorted, measure up and get em made.
    Does any one have a standard 76 shackel laying about or on the car, which they can please measure for me. Center to center. I am curious about how high i am sitting above standard.

    Also, I have discovered that the leafs are not OME, Ironman, Tuff dog or Dobinsons, which other companies make after-market leaves for the 76 wagon. Just to recap, they have a large yellow LCR 76.50.350 on them which I presume is a part number.
    G

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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    I come a long way with modifying and building 4x4`s. Building vehicles with up to 10 inch lift. Being the owner of two Cruisers I am familiar with their prop shaft angles. Have done a 2" lift on the 79.

    The only vehicle I have to give serious attention on prop shaft angles were the little shorty Patrol. Tilted the rear diff for better alignment.

    I really cannot see that a 2" lift can influence the prop shaft angles on a Cruiser to an extend that you will pick up vibration.
    Fully loaded with stock rear leafs the rear suspension moves through a range far more than 2 inches.

    Have many special prop shafts made by prop shaft specialists over many years. All I can say is that I do not trust their work. Me and DVR had a long discussion around prop shafts few years ago. We both find most of them to be out when run between the centers of a lathe. These days I build my own prop shafts. I would spend time to recheck the prop shaft.

    Put it on trestles stick it in gear, run the engine, listen and look. I am sure you would pick up some leads.

    Had a close look at your rear leaf pack. Think it could be custom made up as leaf lengths overlap at the ends. You do not get this on aftermarket kits. Looks like a leaf or two were added afterwards.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

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  19. #15
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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    Stock shackle length on the V8 76 is 85mm between centers.
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    Last edited by grips; 2020/05/29 at 07:03 AM.
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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    Quote Originally Posted by Wicd View Post
    Cruisers are usually fine with lifts of around 50mm from stock. With just extended shackles I don't see the lift causing the issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    I really cannot see that a 2" lift can influence the prop shaft angles on a Cruiser to an extend that you will pick up vibration.
    Fully loaded with stock rear leafs the rear suspension moves through a range far more than 2 inches.
    Agreed. 50mm is minimal.
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  22. #17
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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    So, an enlightening and sad Saturday morning. I got got everying jacked up and cleaned up, ready to check out things suggested to me over the last week AND.

    2 broken and very misaligned springs. In both cases, the top leaf is broken at the front bush, and luckily the second leaf surrounds the top leaf compleatly at the ends, probably saving the day. Where and when this happened I do not know, the drive has always been good except for the hum, but I have never overloaded or got really down and dirty in real heavy offroad situations.
    The PO may have had problems, or he was an arcehole, because the front bushing bolt was so tight that it has bent the outer hanger plate. ( yes you read it right)

    Anyway it is what it is and needs to be fixed. I would love to identify the spring, so that I can at least get spares or avoid the make or something , so I have posted better pictures and hope that someone recognises them.

    The polybushing are an almost translucent red colour, and they are what seem to have caused all the poo in the first place I believe. That and possibly the extended shackels.




    Anyway, some action must be taken and my options are:

    To get replacement parts for the springs, IF i can identify them.
    To get new leaves made and rebuild the spring packs?
    To replace the springs entirly with other aftermarket springs
    To replace the entire suspension with a standard toyota system as she was delivered by the factory. Has anyone out there got the old system from when you upgraded to OME's ect

    Anyone know what the shops do with the old parts when thy fit aftermarket systems??

    So, the hum and front caster question are all on hold untill i get this all sorted, which will probably sort the hum anyway.
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  23. #18
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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    Contact Rudi Heinze (Locklaw on the Forum). He has a fitment centre where they replace Cruiser suspensions. He might be able to help or point you in the right direction
    We can't change the wind but we can set our sails

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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    ask any fitment center i got two leaf packs for R1500 which i used on a trailer i built, they normally have loads in the back room from people fitting aftermarket stuff

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    Default Re: Drive line vibration, lift and caster angle questions LC 76

    The Part number LCR70-50-350 on the leaves show that it is for a 76 Series 50mm lift and 350kg. EFS made 350kg rated leafs with 50mm lift
    Last edited by grips; 2020/05/31 at 08:36 AM.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

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