1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project - Page 18





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  1. #341
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    You work and you work and you work more. And more. Then one day the goodness wagon arrives. Sponsors with various stuff. It really warms my heart to see it happening. PE's very own Tim and Fuzz with Lathe S.O.S . . .

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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    This lathe is going to be so pretty I wonder if its going to be used. . How is the vfd going to run a 380v motor.?Just asking cause Im electrickery challenged.

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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by EtienneB View Post
    You work and you work and you work more. And more. Then one day the goodness wagon arrives. Sponsors with various stuff. It really warms my heart to see it happening. PE's very own Tim and Fuzz with Lathe S.O.S . . .
    Thank you for the kind words @EtienneB. It means a lot. :-)

  4. #344
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by plunger View Post
    This lathe is going to be so pretty I wonder if its going to be used. . How is the vfd going to run a 380v motor.?Just asking cause Im electrickery challenged.
    It will most definitely be used. It is like a clean car, just drives a lot smoother.

    VFD makes 380VAC three phase electrickery from single phase 230VAC. It has the advantage of reversing and motor braking using the VFD.

  5. #345
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by mygoggie View Post
    It will most definitely be used. It is like a clean car, just drives a lot smoother.

    VFD makes 380VAC three phase electrickery from single phase 230VAC. It has the advantage of reversing and motor braking using the VFD.
    From what I understand it will only make 230v three phase. Your motor is 380v three phase. At least that is what I understood from a previous post of yours. Hopefully and many of the smaller motors like yours are dual. 230v and 380v. Then it will work like a charm.

    I learnt something the other day from a guy on this forum. They make a 230v single phase in 380v three phase out.So theres no need for a transformer, it magically uses a thing called a doubler so no heavy transformers, just a bit of digital magician works.

    I do have a horizontal bandsaw that is only 380v (no ability to change from star to delta. )It also works on my vfd.

  6. #346
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by plunger View Post
    From what I understand it will only make 230v three phase. Your motor is 380v three phase. At least that is what I understood from a previous post of yours. Hopefully and many of the smaller motors like yours are dual. 230v and 380v. Then it will work like a charm.

    I learnt something the other day from a guy on this forum. They make a 230v single phase in 380v three phase out.So theres no need for a transformer, it magically uses a thing called a doubler so no heavy transformers, just a bit of digital magician works.

    I do have a horizontal bandsaw that is only 380v (no ability to change from star to delta. )It also works on my vfd.
    380V is basically three 230V lines, each phased (rotated) at 120 degrees from each other. So the VFD takes a single 230VAC phase, converts it to DC and then take the DC and convert it into three 230V AC lines, each phased at 120 degrees to make the 380V. Obviously with some energy losses in the order of 5%.

    I have never heard of 230V three phase before.

    I still need to double check if the motor will handle a VFD. For that I am waiting on an oscilloscope that was donated to me.

  7. #347
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    I believe the majority of three phase motors under 4kw are dual. 230v/400v. You just need to change from star to delta.

  8. #348
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Here is the info plate on the motor on my Myford lathe
    220V into VFD and 220V 3 phase out
    As mentioned before delta connection. For 380 use star connection
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Time travel time again.

    I simply ran out of time to post something yesterday. So we have to move a bit backwards in time from this threads time.

    With the door and the drawer removed, Carl set out to sand these down and feather all the existing primer edges to 800 grit.





    While he was busy sanding, I cold blued the apron lockout lever thinghy Brian made.





    While it was lying wrapped in plastic to blue over time, I started working on repairing the plaque holes in the apron. There are the three plaques that were moved by our Brutish Butcher. He simply left the hammer drive rivets in the holes at the old locations. In addition he used pop rivets to fix the plaques in the new locations.

    This meant I have twelve holes to get very hard steel bits removed from.





    I found that I could drive three of the cut rivets from the back using a small punch.





    By this time, the lever was done tanning in its blue ray chamber. Just add some oil and it looks kind of hmmm, oily.





    Then it was onto getting the lovely skull piercing creative sounds flowing.





    At long last five rivets were removed.





    The last one was stuck in the botched Brutish hole set.





    At this time the health inspector decided to make his rounds.





    He was super excited at the clean and healthy state of our work area. Look at his joyful expression!





    And with that inspection done, it was the end of the day as well! Time flies while you are busy with rivets!

    Good news again! Two parcels arrived! I will do the latest craze thing and make an unboxing video!





    This time's tomorrow will be windy from around 11h00, so I need to get up early to spray paint the etching primer onto the door and drawer. And it was time to do some house cleaning.

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  11. #350
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    And we are back in time to the yesterday of tomorrow's time.

    I had a very late night last night so it was rather difficult to get up early. Some Ethiopian medicine and I could clean the garage and hang the parts to be sprayed. I also received the Quad 33 and Quad 303 parts back from my friend who kept it in storage for me, which allowed me to spray these as well.











    An hour later and all done in yellow.











    With those yellow things hanging around looking busy drying, I tackled the sixth rivet.





    This is how deep I had to go down into the rock hard steel. It takes forever and then some more. Oil for the bit and Ethiopian juice for Brain does help a lot.







    Finally! Done





    Then it was onto getting the pop rivet ends grinded out.






    This went quite quick compared to the rivets. Here lies the valiant bits who gave their lives for the good cause of restoration. Anyone willing to restore them?





    At long last I could start drilling and tapping the holes. The 3mm holes done and the cap screws in place.









    Onto the 5mm holes. Counterboring, drilling and tapping.











    Looking good and all screws screwed in place to mark the lengths required.





    Cut to length, and yes. The naughty child, as usual, did not play along!





    I quickly took out my correction tool and cut him back to size. And all was good. Onto cleaning the holes, mixing some epoxy and coating the holes and screws. And there we are! The machine screws epoxied into place. I also filled the botched Brutish hole with some epoxy. It is located behind the plaque and epoxy will be more than adequate for this purpose.








    With the apron set aside to allow the epoxy to set, it was time for a late leftovers lunch. Do you also get such lunches? Some assurance from Ethiopia gave me the courage to tackle the headstock holes. After all I am on a roll!

    Two hammer driven rivets and the four previously cleared pop rivet holes to get repaired. Here the four larger holes are drilled and tapped and the one smaller hole cleared and tapped. This took about three hours to accomplish.




    I really was not in the mood to clean the last hole at this time, so I moved onto getting the machine screws epoxied in place. The countersinking and cleaning moves were next. At this stage I almost felt like a pro!






    Cutting the screws to length and doing a test fit showed that all was ready for the epoxy.





    And there we are! Fixed machine screws.





    Then it was time to leave my feelings behind and soldier on. The last hole! Can you see the progress over the next two hours?









    A test fit of the plaque confirmed that the hole was in the correct place and the plaque will fit correctly.





    At long last all the plaque holes were fixed! Next step is to sand the machine screw heads down, and peen the back ends. That can wait for another day. I had enough of this today!

    And it was time to clean the garage, pack away the sprayed parts and get myself cleaned up.

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  13. #351
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Thats now quite a display of perseverance. We are watching in awe.
    Current - 2009 Mazda BT50 3.0CRDi 4x4 d/c
    Previous - 2005 Ranger 2.5 tdi 4x2 d/c (277 422km)

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  15. #352
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Wow, no complaints! I must post more of less postings.

    Onto Monday washing ... I mean sanding and washing. Reminds me of the good old unpolluted earth where the ladies washed their clothes next to the river stream by sanding them on a kind of raspy sanding board. Never could understand the logic of that.

    It was Carl's task to sand the stand's cupboard to a smooth finish. Unbelievable how much gunk was painted into the corners and surfaces by the previous "restorers" and our fav character. Wonder if he was responsible for the big blob of gunk stuck in one corner beneath the grey paint and the grey paint and the green paint?










    Looking good Carl! You did an amazing job of getting it clean and smoothed down!

    While Sandkriek was playing in his sandboxes, I tackled the plaques' mounting spots. The brass ones. Not the one that gets killed by us not drinking.

    First lady to be fixed up was the headstock.





    I got the small angle grinder with the flap disk out, put my safety glasses on and sanded the newly installed machine screws down to size. Yes, once again I took care to take turns on each machine screw. When it started turning melty, I moving on to the next one









    Next lady for a shave was the apron. External machine screws done as smooth as a baby's cheek.









    Then it was time to cut the inside ends of the three protruding screws, peen and grind these smooth to match the uneven casted surface.





    All three cut to size with the Dremel tool and a cut-off blade. OK, that is one blade per screws. You do the maths as to what this costs.







    I left this much to be peened over. In hindsight, it was the perfect enoughness.





    Peened ...








    And sanded level with the Dremel tool.












    And the last lady in the queue patiently waiting her turn was the lid. The side lid as you well know by now. Sounds a bit like you know now how brown cow ...

    Machine screws cut to length. The protruding bit is a small tad longer than half the diameter of the screw.









    And peened ...









    Sanded level with the surface.







    This went very well, albeit what you can see above was done over two hours of working diligently. Then it was time for some Brazilian black stuff and a lunch made by the Boss. And it was good!

    With the body fed and Brain given his meds, it was time for the stressful job of marking the 2,5mm holes to be drilled and tapped to M3.

    Starting with the lid. Why? Because it was on the workbench. Last in, first to be tapped. Sounds a bit too familiar these days! My heart goes out to all that needs to take a pay haircut or lost their income. I am in the same boat, so I know. Just hang in there and keep your hands busy! Your hands will keep your mind busy.

    Anyway, onto better things. Tapping of the first drilled hole.







    I had to trim my earlier brass repairs next to the holes on the brass plaque a bit back. This to make the two repaired holes a bit larger to make all four cap screws fit correctly. Nothing major, for us. For bacteria? Hmmm, they might disagree. You see life is all about perspective. Your perception of the issue as viewed from your viewing angle.

    All nice and fixed. I need shorter machine screws. These are about 3mm too long.







    Then it was onto the headstock. I aligned it and stuck it in place to make sure I can mark the holes out correctly.





    Centre punched after careful measuring and finding the correct size punch.





    All four holes drilled and the bottom two tapped.







    And time for coffee to calm my nerves. This is stressful work as the last thing I wanted was a snapped off drill bit or tap.

    The bottom three machine screws fit perfectly!





    And there we are. All screws fitting perfectly and alignment is spot on.





    This was the end of the day, just in time for my favourite pastime ... load shedding! NOT

    The day's handiwork all lined up.





    And it was time to clean and pack all the tools and sweep the floor. Time for a walk next to the beach and get my mind off things.

    ooops,
    Last edited by mygoggie; 2020/07/13 at 10:31 PM.

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  17. #353
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    I always thought the very last hole you tap is supposed to break. At least that what happens with me. I hate tapping small holes in weird steels like cast.

    What I learnt recently is that a bigger hole for tapping obviously uses far less force to tap. So there is far less chance of the tap breaking. But you lose very little holding power . So for example a 12mm bolt drilled to 11.5 mm still has an immense amount of holding power compared to the 10,5mm recommended hole .
    So for small taps I usually drill a much bigger hole if its not needing great force.I break far less taps that way.
    This only applies to cutting taps not FORMING taps.

  18. #354
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by plunger View Post
    What I learnt recently is that a bigger hole for tapping obviously uses far less force to tap. So there is far less chance of the tap breaking. But you lose very little holding power . So for example a 12mm bolt drilled to 11.5 mm still has an immense amount of holding power compared to the 10,5mm recommended hole .
    So for small taps I usually drill a much bigger hole if its not needing great force.I break far less taps that way.
    This only applies to cutting taps not FORMING taps.
    This is like replacing your vehicle's brake pads and installing much smaller ones. Not a good idea!

    I can go into the technical detail, but the brake pad analogy works best.

  19. #355
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by mygoggie View Post
    This is like replacing your vehicle's brake pads and installing much smaller ones. Not a good idea!

    I can go into the technical detail, but the brake pad analogy works best.
    Think Plunger is referring to a general non critical situation like fastening a plaque. Not building a bridge
    GaryG

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  20. #356
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by mygoggie View Post
    This is like replacing your vehicle's brake pads and installing much smaller ones. Not a good idea!

    I can go into the technical detail, but the brake pad analogy works best.
    No you miss the point . A 50 % thread has much less chance of breaking a tap in metals with inconsistent carbon content than a 75 % tap hole. But what I was trying to convey is that a 50% thread is not much weaker than a 75 % thread.When you are tapping in tool steels that cost mega bucks you dont want to break taps .Thats why 75 % threads are standerd .To get a 100 % thread just puts you at risk of snapping taps with very little additional strength.
    I was trying to show other forum members who dont know this a trick that may save them alot of head ache.

    This will not work on a form tap ,only cutting taps. Take a 2.7 drill and tap for 3mm and your risk of breaking a tap is greatly reduced.Its holding a 20 gram plaque on, not a Boeing engine.

    I battle to eloquently explain myself at times but this explains it better.
    https://www.guhring.com/tech/TapDrill/
    Last edited by plunger; 2020/07/14 at 09:06 AM.

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  22. #357
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    I understand that for fixing a plaque the drill size is not a real issue. Having said this, a 2,7mm drill size did render a useless threaded hole in the cast iron. I therefore reverted to a 2,5mm hole.

    But Johnny Simple might read this thread and think: "Hey this is a good idea!" He increases the drill size to ease tapping of a hole where the engineer requires 75% thread to achieve the designed shear strength of the fastening. And then? The engine falls from the aircraft as has happened a short while ago.

    Basically stress vs strain and Young's Modules are the players in this game. Trust you understand my engineering viewpoint on this.

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  24. #358
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by mygoggie View Post
    I understand that for fixing a plaque the drill size is not a real issue. Having said this, a 2,7mm drill size did render a useless threaded hole in the cast iron. I therefore reverted to a 2,5mm hole.

    But Johnny Simple might read this thread and think: "Hey this is a good idea!" He increases the drill size to ease tapping of a hole where the engineer requires 75% thread to achieve the designed shear strength of the fastening. And then? The engine falls from the aircraft as has happened a short while ago.

    Basically stress vs strain and Young's Modules are the players in this game. Trust you understand my engineering viewpoint on this.
    Yes I am a plumber and cant do maths .But I think Jonny Simple actually will just use a tap size that he reads up. He wont know its a 75 % thread.He just wants the job done. But someone who is risking breaking taps may find my information useful.

    Use it or dont use it thats fine. As for Youngs modulus and being a plumber you dont really need to know about it. But as a machinest I find its a weird thing. Theres very little difference in steel performance between mild steel and high carbon steel when it comes to boring bars.

    I think I have been fortunate in certain aspects of home shop machining as I probably did my toolmaking training in probably one the finest toolrooms in the country.Its the small little tricks of the trade that make life easier.I used to listen to the old journeymen in awe. It takes a lifetime to learn these little snippits. I will admit I am a rank amateur when it comes to machining.

    I have enjoyed your thread immensely and thought I could shed some light on certain things that can save someone a head ache. Small taps break easy ,I use them all the time .So if its for non critical work why take the risk.The example was there in the info I gave you.
    Thread strength is not directly proportional to percent of thread. For example a 100% thread specification is only 5% stronger than a 75% thread specification but requires 3 times the torque to produce.
    If you prefer I can just keep quiet .Its okay with me.

  25. #359
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by plunger View Post
    Yes I am a plumber and cant do maths .But I think Jonny Simple actually will just use a tap size that he reads up. He wont know its a 75 % thread.He just wants the job done. But someone who is risking breaking taps may find my information useful.

    Use it or dont use it thats fine. As for Youngs modulus and being a plumber you dont really need to know about it. But as a machinest I find its a weird thing. Theres very little difference in steel performance between mild steel and high carbon steel when it comes to boring bars.

    I think I have been fortunate in certain aspects of home shop machining as I probably did my toolmaking training in probably one the finest toolrooms in the country.Its the small little tricks of the trade that make life easier.I used to listen to the old journeymen in awe. It takes a lifetime to learn these little snippits. I will admit I am a rank amateur when it comes to machining.

    I have enjoyed your thread immensely and thought I could shed some light on certain things that can save someone a head ache. Small taps break easy ,I use them all the time .So if its for non critical work why take the risk.The example was there in the info I gave you.
    Thread strength is not directly proportional to percent of thread. For example a 100% thread specification is only 5% stronger than a 75% thread specification but requires 3 times the torque to produce.
    If you prefer I can just keep quiet .Its okay with me.
    No need to keep quiet. I appreciate your comments and feedback. We just see things from two sides which is as it should be. Wise men discuss and sometimes agree to disagree. Fools differ and throw a tantrum.

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  27. #360
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by mygoggie View Post
    No need to keep quiet. I appreciate your comments and feedback. We just see things from two sides which is as it should be. Wise men discuss and sometimes agree to disagree. Fools differ and throw a tantrum.
    Nicely said.

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