1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project - Page 8





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  1. #141
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    The smell of "katmelk"has always filled me with a certain feeling of belonging!
    We can't change the wind but we can set our sails

  2. #142
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote from: Family_Dog on May 26, 2020, 08:19:01 AM
    I cannot wait until the re-assembly threads start being posted

    -F_D


    Just a teaser @Family_Dog ... quick grab my hand and let's jump forward in this thread's time to real time in today's time.

    A few before and afters ...

    The tumbler shifting arm cap.

    You have displayed great workmanship and attention to detail, O Learned One. I am in Great Expectations of what is still to come.


    -F_D
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  4. #143
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    But we are living in a time warp. Is it possible this lathe is painted a beautiful battle ship grey and all the knobs are already shiny and its already turning out parts.?

  5. #144
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by plunger View Post
    But we are living in a time warp. Is it possible this lathe is painted a beautiful battle ship grey and all the knobs are already shiny and its already turning out parts.?
    On my way to buy the correct original Colchester Green...

    Next week is painting week. OK in this thread's future's next week ;-)

  6. #145
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by Family_Dog View Post

    You have displayed great workmanship and attention to detail, O Learned One. I am in Great Expectations of what is still to come.

    -F_D
    Thank you Pinky!

  7. #146
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by Family_Dog View Post
    Quote from: Family_Dog on May 26, 2020, 08:19:01 AM






    You have displayed great workmanship and attention to detail, O Learned One. I am in Great Expectations of what is still to come.


    -F_D
    Ditto
    Current - 2009 Mazda BT50 3.0CRDi 4x4 d/c
    Previous - 2005 Ranger 2.5 tdi 4x2 d/c (277 422km)

  8. #147
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Next item to be stripped was the apron. I am so glad my apron in the kitchen is not so full of wheels, levers and so heavy!

    The first to strip is the bar thinghy at the bottom. The parts list does not show it so I have no idea what the name thereof is. It is fastened with two bolts at the ends and a third one that holds the leadscrew half-nut in place. No, not someone that is half nuts It is a long nut cut along the length and fits onto the leadscrew.





    Next I removed the screw bolt. This I think is called the interlock lever pivot bolt which holds the interlock lever in place. The bolt in the parts list look completely different, nor did I find any lever it is holding in place. Maybe this apron is not the same as the one in the manual. We will see when I start assembling again.





    At this stage I threw the manual back into cyberspace as I am just wasting my time to ID the various parts. This funny lathe of mine bears no resemblance to any of the many manuals I scrutinised.

    Onto doing it my way. Bring it on Uncle Frank!

    Next thing is to turn the wheel thing with part of it missing so that the missing part fits exactly over the half-nut. OK, you need to be a half-nut to understand that!





    Then simply pull the wheel thinghy with the missing bit over the half-nut. Make sure that you do not try and pull on the missing part ...





    Careful! Pull some more ...





    Good, no springs unsprung and no clinking or clanking or thudding! Alas, no lever thingy fell out. So the manual is wrong! So much for engineering draughting .... maybe it was a Monday model?





    The half-nut simply pulls vertically upward.





    And out she came. Must be female as men are always mentally stable until they have da ring on da finga.





    Next is the big round gear. It has a round grub screw for which you need to call Uncle Allen to come and unlock it with one of his keys.







    Once unlocked, the aluminium rod and a hammer made short work of punching the shaft out.





    The gear with the grub screw gift wrapped in some cheerful looking cloth.





    Then it was the turn of the other turning thing. This looked like cast iron and it looks like something is seriously wrong ...





    Once again secured by a grub screw which I removed with Uncle Allen's help. Why are there so many different sized grub screws and cap screws installed in this lathe? Poor Uncle Allen must have some back problem from carrying all the different size keys!





    The shaft was quite loose and I could pull it out. Watch out for the Woodruff key!!





    You see my headache?? Sigh ... OK time for coffee and maybe something stronger added in. The something in this case spelled as follows: "KWV" No, not Kilowatt Volts





    Bring it on Murphy ... who can tell me which of his laws are applicable here? You stand the chance to win a weekend for three in the Rosmead Hotel!







    The last small gear's turn. A circlip awaits.





    OK, you guessed correctly. Once again I chose the incorrect direction pliers. Ai. With the circlip removed (and not breaking) I punched the shaft out.





    Well, this is all the parts in my funny lathe's apron. The screw is hidding somewhere behind the apron. Can you see it? Reminds me of the series of kiddies books where you must find this little guy called Willy or something. Who can remember his name?






    Who in his right mind drills cast steel to install pop-rivets to hold the little brass machine plaques fast?







    So I drilled the pop-rivet heads off. I need to figure out how the get the remains of the pop-rivets out and these holes sealed. More about this later ...





    Hmmm ... that is weird .... a missing ball





    Oh well, I will sort that out later. Time to look at the current efficient storage system.








    Don't worry, be happy! Bring it on Uncle Bobby McFerrin I know exactly where each part is!

  9. #148
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    How is your rack.?That gear probably can be braized up. I notice the carriage wheel is on the right and not the left like on some lathes. When its on the left your hand gets burnt from shavings if you dont use autofeed.

    Whats sliding and whats surfacing.?Does it only use one half nut. ? This lathe didnt do much thread cutting. Unless I dont look welll that half nut looks pristene.Isnt there a shear pin involved there somewhere. Im referring to the eaten gear.

  10. #149
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by plunger View Post
    How is your rack.?That gear probably can be braized up. I notice the carriage wheel is on the right and not the left like on some lathes. When its on the left your hand gets burnt from shavings if you dont use autofeed.

    Whats sliding and whats surfacing.?Does it only use one half nut. ? This lathe didnt do much thread cutting. Unless I dont look welll that half nut looks pristene.Isnt there a shear pin involved there somewhere. Im referring to the eaten gear.
    By rack do you mean the leadscrew shaft @plunger? The leadscrew is in very good nick.

    I will have to work the mechanics out of the apron gears. To me it looks like there was a clearance issue and that the cast iron gear was actually always touching the leadscrew. Alternatively it is the drive gear (hence the broken teeth) and that engaging and disengaging it to drive either the carriage or the cross-slide ate it away. The small diameter gear sticking out on the side engages on a rack gear fastened to the bottom outside edge of the bed. That obviously then to drive the carraige.

    Yes, only the one half-nut. What I do not understand is that the half-nut looks very good, but the wormbox is very well worn as per the oval holes where it slid on the feedshaft.

    The only shear pin AFAIK is in the gear train on the drive end of the lathe. I did not find a second shear pin in the apron. I have read somewhere that the wormbox is suppose to drop out if the torque exceeds a specific value. I will double check all tomorrow and also sit down with some coffee and work out how this apron system is supposed to work.

    Good questions! Thanks!

  11. #150
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by mygoggie View Post
    By rack do you mean the leadscrew shaft @plunger? The leadscrew is in very good nick.

    I will have to work the mechanics out of the apron gears. To me it looks like there was a clearance issue and that the cast iron gear was actually always touching the leadscrew. Alternatively it is the drive gear (hence the broken teeth) and that engaging and disengaging it to drive either the carriage or the cross-slide ate it away. The small diameter gear sticking out on the side engages on a rack gear fastened to the bottom outside edge of the bed. That obviously then to drive the carraige.

    Yes, only the one half-nut. What I do not understand is that the half-nut looks very good, but the wormbox is very well worn as per the oval holes where it slid on the feedshaft.

    The only shear pin AFAIK is in the gear train on the drive end of the lathe. I did not find a second shear pin in the apron. I have read somewhere that the wormbox is suppose to drop out if the torque exceeds a specific value. I will double check all tomorrow and also sit down with some coffee and work out how this apron system is supposed to work.

    Good questions! Thanks!
    Is there not a rack gear under the front way.?I would have thought that gear engages on it. Is the pinion gear attached to the handle not running the big damaged gear that runs on a straight rack.? It would make sense to have a shear pin on the big gear to prevent damage.

  12. #151
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Unless your lathe doesnt have a rack and uses the leadscrew for autofeed through the wormbox which I dont grasp.
    In this pic just above my homemade thread cutting dial you can see the rack. If you turn the handle for the carriage the pinion engages a bigger gear which meshes to the rack. I assume their is a shear pin there. There was one on my chinese lathe .I better look properly tomorrow as I am feeling a bit fuzzy at the moment. (pineapple beer)
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    Last edited by plunger; 2020/05/28 at 11:14 PM.

  13. #152
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by plunger View Post
    Is there not a rack gear under the front way.?I would have thought that gear engages on it. Is the pinion gear attached to the handle not running the big damaged gear that runs on a straight rack.? It would make sense to have a shear pin on the big gear to prevent damage.
    Yes, that is the rack gear I mentioned. I will check which gear engages on it, but AFAIK it is the small external gear. More later ... off to bed for me!

  14. #153
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Ha, @plunger, so this is the same principle as the early Triumph apron. Read here

    Remember I was surprised that the feedshaft had only one ball at the end when I removed it. If you read the literature in the link above you will see that is the "clutch" to prevent overloading of the gears. Obviously the Brutish Butcher did some mod to the "clutch" to make it better and to make the lathe even stronger used the drill shaft piece as a shear pin ... excellent engineering skills there! Not.
    Last edited by mygoggie; 2020/05/28 at 11:31 PM.

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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    I dont think the big gear meshes to the rack. Do you know what they mean by surfacing and sliding. Is surfacing like facing?

  16. #155
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by plunger View Post
    I dont think the big gear meshes to the rack. Do you know what they mean by surfacing and sliding. Is surfacing like facing?
    @plunger I have no idea. I have asked in the Colchester group on groups.io for an explanation on how the apron is supposed to work and what the two terms mean in the Colchester world.

    BTW, I did not sleep well as my brain was figuring out how the apron works during the night ... thanks for that!

  17. #156
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    And a few minutes later, the answer from Mike White:

    "Sliding and surfacing. Sliding means when the apron moves either left toward headstock or right towards tailstock, surfacing means moving cross slide either away from you or towards you. You do this be operating the controls on the apron. Hope this helps. Mike"

  18. #157
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by mygoggie View Post
    And a few minutes later, the answer from Mike White:

    "Sliding and surfacing. Sliding means when the apron moves either left toward headstock or right towards tailstock, surfacing means moving cross slide either away from you or towards you. You do this be operating the controls on the apron. Hope this helps. Mike"
    As in facing cut. Makes sense

  19. #158
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    That was exactly my train of thought
    GaryG

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  20. #159
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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    And Ian Robinson replied as follows:

    "The apron operation is simple enough.

    You lower the apron lever (its normal position), slide it left or right to beneath the relevant slot, then raise it into the slot to engage the feed.

    Sliding is when the tool moves parallel to the spindle axis. This turns a cylinder.

    Surfacing is when the tool moves perpendicular to the spindle axis. This makes a flat surface on the end of a cylinder.
    Regarding the safety clutch, makes sure everything moves freely and your new ball is the right size.
    The gear can surely be made out of en24 or similar.."


    in addition Bob said:

    "Its an 'either - or' . . .


    You engage the Leadscrew when screwcutting, it provides an accurate feed that maintains the relationship between the headstock and apron to give an accurate cut.


    The Wormbox DOES NOT OPERATE with the Leadscrew so if you crash it - it gets damaged.


    There will be (should be) an interlock to prevent both the Leadscrew and Feedshaft from operating at the same time.

    The Feedshaft is used for machining, either longitudinally when reducing the diameter of the workpiece or facing when machining across the axis of the lathe. Facing removes the depth of metal that you select on the compound, Longitudinal cuts remove twice the amount that you have advanced the tool via the cross slide. The Vernier dials usually allow for this (i.e. reducing the radius by 'X' removes '2X' from the diameter).

    The wormbox will operate when using the Feedshaft, set the Bed Stop and reduce the tripping force (there is a dial on the Apron on a Triumph, not sure about yours) and it should dis-engage the feed when it meets the resistance of the Stop.


    I hope this helps, its a fascinating subject and none of us ever stop learning."

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    Default Re: 1953 Colchester Student Mk1 6" gap bed - A restoration project

    Quote Originally Posted by mygoggie View Post
    Thanks @grips. Better to fix the issues when they are babies and cannot breed babies!
    I have fixed the the little things that can become problematic. It just need some finishing touches. Also have a small 1m little lathe
    that I use most of the times.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

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