Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.





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  1. #1
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    Default Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.

    OK, so dangeling copper washers in the flame of you gas stove and then dunking them, does not do a proper job. Just how hot do they have to be.
    Anyway you can see that the job was not done properly, and I now have the correct aluminium one but still convinced the copper would have been better if done properly in the first place.

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    Default Re: Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.

    Blowtorch. Like in red hot.
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    Default Re: Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.

    Somewhere around 400 degrees C.

    You get a temperature indicating paint which you can apply, which will show you when you have reached the temperature. It is called Tempilaq (not sur eof the spelling). The better gun shops stock it.
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    Default Re: Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.

    Sometimes those copper washers are steel and copper coated. But those look like copper.I had this problem with the injectors of a tractor once. They looked like copper but were not.

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    Default Re: Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.

    Excuse my ignorance, but I assume the annealing is done in order to reuse them?
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    Default Re: Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.

    As far as I know, you want that washer soft. So you heat it and let it cool by itself.
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    Default Re: Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.

    When I anneal carbon steel, I heat it red hot and then let it cool down slowly.

    I understand copper doesn't care about the rate of the cooling. Slow, quench, air cool... as long as it was red hot.
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    Default Re: Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.

    Yes, Heris, you are correct.

    Heating snd cooling is a hardning process.
    Last edited by jfh; 2020/05/11 at 07:48 AM.
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    Default Re: Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.

    Quote Originally Posted by jfh View Post
    Yes, Heris, you are correct.

    Heating snd cooling is a hardning process.
    Not with Copper:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=anne...XwxgPdz5uYAQ87
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    Default Re: Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henris View Post
    As far as I know, you want that washer soft. So you heat it and let it cool by itself.
    "Nonferrous Metal

    Copper becomes hard and brittle when mechanically worked; however, it can be made soft again by annealing. The annealing temperature for copper is be_tween 700°F and 900°F. Copper maybe cooled rapidly or slowly since the cooling rate has no effect on the heat treatment. The one drawback experienced in annealing copper is the phenomenon called "hot shortness." At about 900°F, copper loses its tensile strength, and if not properly supported, it could fracture.

    Aluminum reacts similar to copper when heat treat_ing. It also has the characteristic of "hot shortness." A number of aluminum alloys exist and each requires special heat treatment to produce their best properties.


    it is preferential to cool rapidly in water though, as allowing it to cool slowly in air will cause the surface to oxidise"

    Copy and paste from another forum.

    Heat it till it gets black, then continue till it turns completely red.
    Now it's annealed.
    Cool slowly or fast.
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    Default Re: Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henris View Post
    As far as I know, you want that washer soft. So you heat it and let it cool by itself.
    Copper (and brass) is only hardened by "working it". To anneal to soft, you heat it up and that's it. How it cools is insignificant, so people dunk it in cold water to just cool it faster. You can let it cool by itself as well, just as well.

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    Default Re: Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.

    Heat till cherry red and the quench. The washer will then look a dull orange sort of color.
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    Default Re: Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.

    I have found that by cooling it immediately you dont have to sand it as much to clean it.

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    Default Re: Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.

    Thanks for all the comments so far.

    2 more questions/ ponder points.

    Should I have done any treatment to the OEM aluminium washer that i replaced the copper with.

    If I want to carry the old copper washers as spares, should I anneal them now, or wait until I need them??

    G

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    Default Re: Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gengis View Post
    Thanks for all the comments so far.

    2 more questions/ ponder points.

    Should I have done any treatment to the OEM aluminium washer that i replaced the copper with.

    If I want to carry the old copper washers as spares, should I anneal them now, or wait until I need them??

    G
    I don't know how aluminium anneals, but considering annealing makes copper soft, I would wait until I need them before annealing them.

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    Default Re: Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henris View Post
    As far as I know, you want that washer soft. So you heat it and let it cool by itself.
    For copper, red hot and water quench is the way to go.
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    Default Re: Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.

    Quote Originally Posted by OomD View Post
    Excuse my ignorance, but I assume the annealing is done in order to reuse them?
    Not necessarily, when I fitted my new Td5 head, I annealed the new copper seals I bought for the injectors, just to be sure they would deform and create a good conforming seal, but if they come off unmolested, then certainly to be able to reuse them, annealing is best.
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    Default Re: Annealing copper washers , lessons not learned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gengis View Post
    Should I have done any treatment to the OEM aluminium washer that i replaced the copper with.

    If I want to carry the old copper washers as spares, should I anneal them now, or wait until I need them??

    G
    As far as I recall, copper will age harden, but I'd be guessing as to what rate it takes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toxxyc View Post
    I don't know how aluminium anneals, but considering annealing makes copper soft, I would wait until I need them before annealing them.
    Aluminium is a diffcult one, there are many grades and they each require specific treatment methods, but for a cheap ally washer, I'd mark it with a koki pen and heat it gently until the marked area disappears, then quench in water.
    Koki pen, Sharpie, or a rub of green soap bar will also work, basically heat gently until the pen marks almost disappear or the soap goes brown, then quench.

    For the different alloys, look here... https://makeitfrommetal.com/how-to-a...ginners-guide/
    Some alloy grades will immediately start to air harden once cool, others will work harden, so you need to know what you are dealing with and treat it accordingly.
    Last edited by JohnnoK; 2020/05/11 at 01:48 PM.
    Cheers,
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