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  1. #41
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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    out of interest what make of oil pump, piston, rings, bearings are the quoting for
    1995 300TDi Defender with VGT Turbo (stolen by my son now )
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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    Quote Originally Posted by clivemd View Post
    out of interest what make of oil pump, piston, rings, bearings are the quoting for
    You beat me to it, clivemd!

    I just wanted to go online to check prices for the Td5 parts before putting in my reply. Especially as the full quote comes to almost R90k, and includes brand new injectors, it would be absolutely false economy to skimp on those other items. My concern in particular is the pistons - but also have to acknowledge that the indies do this every day and so must be confident of the quality of the parts they are using, perhaps knowing that the most expensive is not necessarily any better?

    To the OP, I'm going to add a whole lot of thoughts again just now...



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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    Quote Originally Posted by antvz View Post
    You beat me to it, clivemd!

    I just wanted to go online to check prices for the Td5 parts before putting in my reply. Especially as the full quote comes to almost R90k, and includes brand new injectors, it would be absolutely false economy to skimp on those other items. My concern in particular is the pistons - but also have to acknowledge that the indies do this every day and so must be confident of the quality of the parts they are using, perhaps knowing that the most expensive is not necessarily any better?

    To the OP, I'm going to add a whole lot of thoughts again just now...
    i always go on turner engineering sight and look at what they sell as they are top notch when comes to Landy engines
    1995 300TDi Defender with VGT Turbo (stolen by my son now )
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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    Quote Originally Posted by clivemd View Post
    i always go on turner engineering sight and look at what they sell as they are top notch when comes to Landy engines
    Yes, I even emailed them recently since they sell KS pistons in oversizes for my engine too. They say that the parts they sell on their website are also the ones they use in their rebuilds.

    I noticed after posting my previous post, that the OP's quote he posted was from Welle (I just saw the approx. R80k and thought it was from Overlandworx). Makes even more sense then to check brands and specify if necessary.



  5. #45
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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    OK, here we go.

    Had a look on LRServiceCentre website, KS pistons about R2700 each (standard size). Turner Engineering, about 90 Pounds each, and theirs includes the rings and gudgeon pins (that's the small end bushing, isn't it?). So I'd say rather shell out for KS pistons and then you can lose R1500 for manufacturing the small end bushings at Welle. The price quoted must be for Britpart or something.

    Oil pump (Britpart) already over R8k (I was shocked, I have a Tdi!) so I can imagine what an OE quality one would cost. I don't know much about Td5 engines - can this be replaced easily from "outside", e.g. dropping the sump? If so, I'd spend half of that R12k on a Madman installation rather, and monitor the oil pressure. If the pump is fine, it's fine, and seeing as the cause for rebuild is mostly overheating, maybe the pump isn't even worn. It's good practice to replace oil pump with a rebuild - but the validity of this practice varies in effectiveness vs cost, depending on the type of oil pump employed in the engine. Unless these are known to fail catastrophically?

    Injectors: you don't want to lose an engine due to faulty spray patterns etc. Can a Bosch or similar place test these? (other members will advise). I would test first.

    All that stuff about shortening the conrods - is that how you set the deck height on a Td5?

    The quote is for a rebore. Should it be found necessary to resleeve back to standard, it would cost more.

    Replacing turbo is one of the things I'd put on the essentials list. Depending on what you use the car for, or whether it's still fine, you could wait it out a little bit. I wouldn't, though.

    What about all the timing gear? Chain and tensioners etc.? I see no mention of that.

    ____________________

    Just a concern that maybe some more knowledgeable people could address...

    There's a charge of about R9k for assembly of the engine (I hope it includes timing gear and stuff, for that price!).

    There are also separate charges for measuring, lengthening/shortening conrods, etc. In other words, all the preliminary setting-up to spec is charged separately in the first section of the quote. Meaning the R9k is then just for assembly of the parts. That's about 12 hours of a very decent technician's time, charged over and above all the time for the measuring. Overlandworx uses this company, so they must be good, but hell, that's a lot of money to pay someone for a day's work!

    Not every job done during those 12 hours is really worth R750/hour. A lot of it can be done by a decent guy with a spanner (and probably is!).

    Assuming the OP is confident about his mechanical skills (precision) and has done this sort of thing before, he could of course get the block and head machined and then put all the parts together - meaning he'd keep on running back to the engineering shop after measuring, to get stuff done... but if not, I don't think this is the right engine to practice on.

    Faced with some time to kill and sense of adventure, and assuming the OP doesn't need the car in a hurry, and that he has decent mechanical know-how - I would say to him, get the "short block" assembled at the engineering works. The amount of time saved due to running back and forth with the parts that need setting in, will offset the extra cost. And have them assemble the head too (at least put the valves in). Surely this should cost only a couple of thousand?



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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    Quote Originally Posted by antvz View Post
    ....

    Injectors: you don't want to lose an engine due to faulty spray patterns etc. Can a Bosch or similar place test these? (other members will advise). I would test first.
    I had Td5 injectors tested at Remtec earlier this year, R 1692.00 to test all five, with a report.

    So it is possible..
    2004 Land Rover Discovery 2 Td5 ES

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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    You don't need a new turbo, get a new CHR, R3k!

    https://www.turborebuild.co.uk/websh...and-Rover.html

    You can also get one locally but make sure it's not a China import of who knows what quality.

    There is no LR oil pump, you can only get OE.

    You can get your injectors, checked, reconditioned locally.. There's a place in germiston.

    Www.Reeffuel.co.za
    Tel: 011 873 2354

    Why not just resleeve, rather than go oversize? Sleeves are relatively inexpensive.

    Speak to cylinder head manufacture in Selby, they did 2 motors for me, from strip to assembly.
    Grant:011 493 5995

    If I were you I'd go to turner engineering and order all parts from them. Make sure you get new timing chain, guides and oil pump chain..

    Pm me, I may be able to get you some genuine parts at a hefty discount.
    Last edited by NewLandy; 2020/05/23 at 03:46 PM.

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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    NewLandy,

    I don't want to derail this post too far away from the original, but I think my questions are relevant to the OP as well...

    Did Cylinder Head Manufacturers do two Td5 engines for you? And if not, do you mind sharing what engines they were?

    Regarding Cylinder Head Manufacturers/Grant, I had a head done there (non-landy, petrol car) but I'm happy. The usual abrupt service that these places give you when I dropped off my head and tried to tell them what to do (I think it's somewhere in the Engineering Works' Code of Conduct that you have to treat your customers like that to see if they will come back!). When I came to fetch the head, it was very well cleaned and wrapped and seems correctly assembled. He was extremely accommodating in answering all my questions about his facility and about Tdi engines. I am also considering using these guys for my Tdi block work.

    Hence my curiosity regarding a basic assembly by these guys (short block). If they can assemble AND report back truthfully on clearances, etc. then we have a winner, and I have a gut feeling that Grant might be such a person (no, I'm not being paid to say this).

    To the OP,

    yes, perhaps go there and get a quote. Or if you don't know all the terminology, get someone who knows the lingo to get the quote and do the comms on your behalf.

    I asked on this forum and got some replies about Turner Engineering (in the UK) from those who ordered from them. I also mailed them and they were very helpful - seems like shipping to RSA would cost about 80 pounds (courier), and then you have to budget for customs. Yet it's still worth while doing the costing exercise since their prices seem good and the parts are those they use in their rebuilds.



  10. #49
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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    @ NewLandy again, why do you suggest he resleeves instead of going oversize? Won't reboring be cheaper than resleeving? Are you proposing that he re-uses the original pistons (that would be a saving)?



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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    Quote Originally Posted by antvz View Post
    @ NewLandy again, why do you suggest he resleeves instead of going oversize? Won't reboring be cheaper than resleeving? Are you proposing that he re-uses the original pistons (that would be a saving)?
    Grant did 2 td5 motors for me...
    As for the resleeve, that's my personal preference. If the pistons are still good, then you'll need new rings, frankly, I'd just go with new std pistons,but if they're still good then I can't thi k of a reason not to use them.

    There's a difference in the rings between pre-facelift and face-lift pistons, the OP will need to make sure he gets the correct ones..

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  13. #51
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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    Hey guys,

    Been a while but I've been phoning around getting some options. Here is where I am at the moment;

    Firstly, started at looking at second hand engines just because of money. This enabled me to keep my current engine which I could keep for parts for trips or sell to pay back for the second hand engine. Went to go look at an engine at LDR in Pretoria but they couldn't give me proof of the mileage. I eventually through lots of messages back and forth got a VIN and numberplate number which I ran in the UK and turns out the engine was at 330,000km instead of the 80-120,000km they promised me. I took this as a major warning sign and told them thanks but no thanks. I ruled out all second hand engines just because I literally have no idea what I am getting and it involves too much trust.

    So, my current plan of action is as follows:

    1) Spoke with Craig at Remtek, really friendly and knowledgeable. They are going to courier my sub-assembly from Jo'burg to PE and work on it. For R16,100 exVAT, they will dismantle, put the block in an acid bath, run compression tests, do any grinding if necessary, rebore if required, put new pistons, bearings, rings in... measure it all out properly and send it back to me. AND, they said I could box up my injectors and they will do a test on those too for FREE. There will also be no unexpected costs with this. So, this to me is a bargain so will be going ahead with that. They were the most friendly and I've read up on here that everyone raves about them. ALso comes with a 1 year/100,00km warranty which makes me sleep at night. They mentioned that they have a sub assembly ready for me but I will require to change my vehicle papers because the engine number is on it, so for the extra 12 days it takes them to do the work I might as well get them to work on my engine for no extra costs. Not like I can go anywhere anyway. Acrotek quoted me R25k for a sub assembly just for reference

    2) Cylinder Head work. Unfortunately Remtek don't do TD5 heads anymore so I can't get them to do a packaged deal. Acrotek however have a new head for R9850exVAT which also comes with a 1 year warranty (extra sleep for me). I will transfer everything from my head to the new head and replace the valves for new ones. This seem easy enough. Before I jump into buying a new head though, I will be taking my old head to Welle Engineering for them to do an inspection on it. Got a quote today from them, and if the head needs skimming it will be R717. Worst case, if there are any cracks, injector holes need work etc we are looking at R3,477. Which I don't think is too bad. So going to take it to them first before I jump into any conclusions. Will do that next week and update you guys on it. Acrotek quoted me R25k for a sub assembly just for reference.

    3) Parts, I have phoned multiple places to get quotes and I am looking at around R7000. Which includes every gasket and seal required, new glow plugs (mine are buggered and they are a cheap part to replace), new water pump, injector orings and washers, head bolts, wiring loom etc. Pretty much everything I need to get the job done. Correct head gasket will be but in as per engineers recommendations.

    So if I go the route of getting my head reconditioned then I am looking at R29,630inVAT all in. Unexpected costs at the moment are the injectors. But so far I started at R80k getting an indy to do it to getting engineering shops to do it for me, do all the complicated measuring and I just plonk it back into the car (massive under statement there, don't worry I know what I am getting myself into). I am super excited to do this and will be starting tomorrow by removing the engine, which I of course will document don't worry.

    Not sure if you guys have any hints/tips on things to look out for, things I should definitely replace whilst I am there. Open to suggestions. I have the RAVE manual at hand which will be my Bible.
    Last edited by saffaoverland; 2020/06/05 at 07:48 PM.
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  15. #52
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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    No bud you're on the right track.
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  17. #53
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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    Are they going to put a new oil pump in and what make LandRover OEM, timing chain, oil pump chain and relevant sprockets and tensioner and guides, what make pistons and rings
    1995 300TDi Defender with VGT Turbo (stolen by my son now )
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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    Quote Originally Posted by clivemd View Post
    Are they going to put a new oil pump in and what make LandRover OEM, timing chain, oil pump chain and relevant sprockets and tensioner and guides, what make pistons and rings
    If I read the OP's post carefully, he is getting only the "short block" done at Remtec. So he still has to do his own oil pump, chain, guides, sprockets etc.



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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    Quote Originally Posted by clivemd View Post
    Are they going to put a new oil pump in and what make LandRover OEM, timing chain, oil pump chain and relevant sprockets and tensioner and guides, what make pistons and rings
    Seconded. OP, this is crucial when comparing quotes. OE pistons for that engine cost R2.5k each. So it's possible, but do make sure you know what you're getting.



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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    I'm going to throw in some more here. A 1-year/100 000 km warranty on a short block is comforting, but imagine having to take that whole engine out again, strip the block and ship it back to them for your R16.5k. Then wait months while they assess it and try to find a way to save money. And since you installed it yourself, there could be added disputes.

    Knowing what I know now, I'd rather have the engineering work done locally where I can pop in, check and ask questions. First visit to the engineering works: ask them to do the acid bath, cleanup, pressure test, etc. Then assess and decide whether to rebore or resleeve. And measure the crankshaft, decide whether to polish or just grind. Then they do the work, and tell you what size parts to buy - you buy it all (proper OEM) and give it to them to fit and check. If anything is discovered, they stop the work, phone you, and you come to a solution (e.g. main bearing bolts that are not OK, etc.). Someone who quotes you a flat rate like that, irrespective of what needs to be done, is likely to do as little as possible - that's just the nature of business.



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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    "New head" for R9k? Probably a recon head..

    The posts re oil pump, chains, guides, hydraulic tensioner etc is something to consider.

    I would rather go local re the short block engineering, they're not doing much that most engineering shops can do.

    I would also have the engineering shop fit the head and all timing stuff.. That way, if there's an issue then it's a one shop problem. If not, it becomes a "it's their fault" argument..

    Have you got a quote from Grant?

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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    I will check the makes for all the parts when I head to Welle tomorrow.

    Meantime, I have successfully taken the engine out, removed the head and gasket. Below are photos of the cylinder block. Can anyone see anything alarming? I was alarmed by the sheer amount of black soet there was but I do understand that this is where the compression happens.

    I can't see any scores on the cylinder bores, the one photo you can see some marks... are these normal?

    I also can't turn the engine, might have something to do with the timing chain being jammed but I am under the impression that I should be able to freely rotate the engine correct?

    I can't see any areas for blowby by I understand this might not be visible to the naked eye, but I am hoping it could be just piston ring failure causing it. I cleaned up the top of cylinder 5 and there is very slight side to side movement, like 0.01mm worth.
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    Last edited by saffaoverland; 2020/06/09 at 01:11 PM.
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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    The diagonal marks you can see on the one photo are called cross hatching and are from the manufacture/last rebuild of the engine, and comforting to see.

    Not being able to turn the engine with the head off is probably down to the timing chain blocking rotation.
    Cheers,
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    Default Re: TD5 blowby?

    Quote Originally Posted by saffaoverland View Post
    I will check the makes for all the parts when I head to Welle tomorrow.

    Meantime, I have successfully taken the engine out, removed the head and gasket. Below are photos of the cylinder block. Can anyone see anything alarming? I was alarmed by the sheer amount of black soet there was but I do understand that this is where the compression happens.

    I can't see any scores on the cylinder bores, the one photo you can see some marks... are these normal?

    I also can't turn the engine, might have something to do with the timing chain being jammed but I am under the impression that I should be able to freely rotate the engine correct?

    I can't see any areas for blowby by I understand this might not be visible to the naked eye, but I am hoping it could be just piston ring failure causing it. I cleaned up the top of cylinder 5 and there is very slight side to side movement, like 0.01mm worth.
    If you cant see gasket blow marks you may have to delve abit deeper, it also depends how quickly the coolant pipes become pressurised after starting, if it was slow then it could just be a pin prick, the worst type to locate.........or a cracked head, very common
    Last edited by viperover; 2020/06/13 at 12:15 AM.
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