Amarok front sway bar disconnect





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  1. #1
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    Default Amarok front sway bar disconnect

    Something I've been wanting to do for a while is to install disconnect-able sway bar links.

    Has anybody done that on an amarok? I know you get kits for the jeeps that you can order pretty much off the shelf...

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    Default Re: Amarok front sway bar disconnect

    Quote Originally Posted by WillemT View Post
    Something I've been wanting to do for a while is to install disconnect-able sway bar links.

    Has anybody done that on an amarok? I know you get kits for the jeeps that you can order pretty much off the shelf...
    I do not think it will be a wise move on an IFS suspension. Friend of mine did it on his Navara. Cost him two CV joints in the end.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

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    Default Re: Amarok front sway bar disconnect

    With Grips here. You must leave the platkarre as stock as possable.
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    Default Re: Amarok front sway bar disconnect

    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    Doesnt the bumpstops save the CV from excessive angle?
    It does but what happens with downward flex ? IFS CV`s seldom last with lifts more than 50mm. Sway bars limit the downward movement of the suspension.
    Last edited by grips; 2020/04/26 at 10:35 AM.
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    Default Re: Amarok front sway bar disconnect

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    It does but what happens with downward flex ? IFS CV`s seldom last with lifts more than 50mm. Sway bars limit the downward movement of the suspension.
    Isnt that the bumpstop or shock's job?

    The swaybar minimises the flex difference between left and right on same axle. All the swaybars I have seen can drop far beyond the suspension geometry drop. I have seen many setups with bumpstops limiting both ways of travel (up and down). Company ranger (IFS) and cruiser (SFA) for example.

    So if an IFS crests a dune/hump with wheels on full droop, and turning, the CVs will fail?

    I dont think we can generalise here. We need to address each setup on its own merits.
    Last edited by MariusFourie; 2020/04/26 at 11:05 AM.

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    Default Re: Amarok front sway bar disconnect

    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    Isnt that the bumpstop or shock's job?

    The swaybar minimises the flex difference between left and right on same axle. All the swaybars I have seen can drop far beyond the suspension geometry drop. I have seen many setups with bumpstops limiting both ways of travel (up and down). Company ranger (IFS) and cruiser (SFA) for example.

    So if an IFS crests a dune/hump with wheels on full droop, and turning, the CVs will fail?

    I dont think we can generalise here. We need to address each setup on its own merits.
    Disconnect a sway bar and see what happens with downward droop on IFS.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

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    Default Re: Amarok front sway bar disconnect

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    Disconnect a sway bar and see what happens with downward droop on IFS.
    I have done so on my touareg to look for suspension noise source. The droop is limited by the bumpstop in the air strut. Even though the treg swaybar is actually indexed.

    I have done the same with a subaru. Same story, droop is limited by the shock.

    Unless a swaybar is indexed to the chassis, I cant see how it can limit droop.

    The amarok swaybar is not indexed so the droop travel is limited by the shock travel.

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    Default Re: Amarok front sway bar disconnect

    I perfectly understand the working of the Amaroks front suspension. People disconnect sway bars to increase flex in 4x4 conditions.
    If you are sure that no damage will occur on the front suspension of the Amarok with sway bars disconnected in 4x4 conditions then it is fine.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

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    Default Re: Amarok front sway bar disconnect

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    I perfectly understand the working of the Amaroks front suspension. People disconnect sway bars to increase flex in 4x4 conditions.
    If you are sure that no damage will occur on the front suspension of the Amarok with sway bars disconnected in 4x4 conditions then it is fine.
    Im not saying whether it's fine or not.

    Im debating your info of the CV joints getting damaged from swaybar disconnects due to the swaybar limiting droop. I dont see it that way.

    Once the suspension operation is clarified, one way or the other, the effects thereof can be discussed.

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    Default Re: Amarok front sway bar disconnect

    Some input from me:

    No damage will occur to the CV,s due to disconnecting the swaybar or as I know it the Anti Rollbar.

    Reason:

    Swaybar/Anti-Roll bar limits roll movement by acting against the rollmoment of the vehicle when cornering. Thus it starts acting when there is a difference in movement between left and right wheels, eg going around a corner.

    Suspension movement is limited upwards by bump stops and downwards by internal bump stops in the damper. Sometimes assisted by straps on the outside of the damper to prevent internal damage when the damper rapidly extends.
    Thus when you jack the front axle up both wheels will move into full droop, full damper extension. Both wheels moving the same there is no torsion input on the swaybar/anti roll bar. Removing the swaybar will in such a situstion not give more wheel travel.

    But when one wheel moves independently of the other there will a torsion input on the swaybar which will then act to counter the force or roll movement of the vehicle and tend to try to keep both left and right hand wheels level by limiting the downward travel on the one side and the upward movement on the other side.
    This is the situation where disconnecting a swaybar/ anti roll bar will give a advantage.

    Thus driving through a cross over axle situation with the left wheel on high ground and the right wheel into a hole, the swaybar will limit the difference in travel between the 2 wheels on the axle. Removing the swaybar/anti roll bar will allow full upward travel on the left wheel and full downward travel on the right wheel. Thus gaining wheel travel, but not increasing the overall total wheel travel.

    In rallying when it gets wet we took out the front swaybar/anti rollbar completely or went as soft as possible to gain traction while sacrificing a bit handling stability.

    HE

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    Default Re: Amarok front sway bar disconnect

    Thanks Langsaam and Marius I really do understand the working of IFS and sway bar or anti roll bars. I have build a complete new racing style front suspension for a Ford Sapphire V8 conversion many moons ago. Complete with caster and camber adjustment. Also a custom ARB.

    I have also busted CV`s and saw many busted CV`s in 35 years of off roading.

    The reason of my post were only to warn Willem of possible damage with Sway bar disconnected.

    If you guys say it is safe to disconnect them I am sorry and Willem can go ahead and be assured that he will not experience any ill effects.
    Last edited by grips; 2020/04/27 at 07:53 AM.
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    Default Re: Amarok front sway bar disconnect

    Hi all,

    I recon all have valuable input regarding possible damage. With a 50mm lift it affects the angle of continuous running. Sometime also the maximum travel of the suspension with longer shocks.

    Usually a CV has a certain torque transfer graph at various angles. The greater the angle difference from the standard the less torque can be applied before the fail. Not at the first input but damage occurs over time. This is normally at full lock turning in full bump or full droop.
    Take a vehicle offroad and this situation occurs more often than on the road especially with IFS suspensions.

    Now you make things worse by increasing total travel with longer shocks or a suspension lift. The cv over extends further down and at a full lock steering around a corner it then overloads the cv when the same torque is applied as it would have been in a normal suspension travel setup.
    Not even mentioning a power increase.

    So removing the swaybar wont increase the cv angles or maximum suspension travel parameters of the standard setup.

    Longer shocks and it will for sure affect the angles within which the CV operates. This will cause more problems. But again it all depends on each suspension geometry and how much it influences the cv as it moves up and down in a standard config.


    I think the biggest question is with a standard setup, how much travel difference you will actually gain between left and right with a swaybar connected vs disconnected?
    For all we know it might be 20mm for example and only in a condition of travel variance from left to right. One wheel in a hole which occur maybe 10% of the time. And it might this be much more of an advantage to fit proper offroad tyres and drive a proper line which will add capability in 100% of the conditions. Especially with the amarok traction control and front electronic simulated difflock.

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    Default Amarok front sway bar disconnect

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    I do not think it will be a wise move on an IFS suspension. Friend of mine did it on his Navara. Cost him two CV joints in the end.
    Thanks for the input everyone.
    Itís something I will take in mind. Iím pretty sure that the shocks will limit the suspension drop sufficiently. I did check out the drops when I fitted the koni susp. The shocks have a solid built it stop to limit the drop on the susp. So driveshafts still clear and cvs feel quite alright at full extension. The koni raid setup I have on is vw certified so the total shock length is still in spec to protect the cvs.
    Also on full extension there will be very little power on that specific cv as the weight on that wheel gets less and less until it reaches full extension where it will lift and have no traction.

    But it is something to take into account. Cvs should not take heavy loads on excessive angles and it will write them off as you rightly mentioned.

    When taking some air after coming off a dune top isnít really the same, yes both wheels will be off the ground and dropping to stop but no one will have power on them so itís not really a representative situation of what Grips talked about. The power being transferred trough the cv is what make the difference.
    On a 4x4 trail you will always have a large portion of the vehicle weight on the front end, either the one side or both and that will help limit cv angles to protect them when you have the sway bar connected.

    I think it really becomes a problem when people install aftermarket shocks which has a longer extended length than stock or when they remove bump stops to enable longer travel on the torsion bar suspensions. Not sire what the setup on the navara was.

    I am contemplating a front diff drop to accommodate a further 25mm lift but not really sure I want to do this because Iím only going make downward travel on the suspension less.

    I did promise myself that I would stop playing after the first susp upgrade and wheel change. Now a diff drop, suspension lift and small body lift are already trying to make their way onto some list... haha

    Just need to find a place that stocks these greased ball joint ends and different length links, then Iíll make one up and carefulle test it and see what the difference is.
    Last edited by WillemT; 2020/04/27 at 09:39 AM.

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  17. #15
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    Default Re: Amarok front sway bar disconnect

    Diff drop way to go. Amarok have a serious strong front suspension. Quack proof it with some lift offs

    It is not what you buy its what you build.

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