Advice needed from the diesel gurus





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  1. #1
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    Default Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    A while ago my pajero engine died on me, it basically lost power and refused to start again. Due to work commitments, I didn't get a chance to have a look at it previously but with lockdown I now have all the time in the world.

    I pulled the motor out and noticed quite a few things, that don't make sense to me, and am hoping someone can point me in the right direction.

    The first thing is that I seem to have very low compression.I could turn the motor over by hand, using the flywheel. My gut is telling me that it's the rings, as the intercooler and turbo were full of oil (about 500ml came out the intercooler alone), and there was evidence that oil had been blowing out the pressure valve at the back of the intake manifold.

    The second thing I saw was that the freeze plug at the back of the head is missing, which explains why only about 1.5l of antifreeze came out the cooling system when I drained it. I would have thought that this indicates the head gasket is gone, or the head even being cracked, but I saw no signs of this.

    Another thing that's really confusing is that the intake & exhaust manifold bolts, as well as the head bolts at the rear of the engine were all loose. Most of them were barely more than finger tight. These were all the ones around cylinders 3 & 4. Could this be heat related?

    Looking at the head itself, you can see a colour difference on the exhaust valves on the back 2 cylinders, which seems to indicate that they weren't buring the same as the front cylinders. The diesel pump and injectors were done recently so I don't think they can be causing a difference in fueling?

    I pulled the pistons out, and couldn't find any signs of water in the bores, but they are really smooth. I also noted that the back 2 pistons came out easier than the front 2 pistons.

    Would I need to do a full rebuild with a new head, or could I get away with honing the bores, and fitting new gaskets and rings?
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    Get a proper spec sheet and measure all. Else get the engineering works to do it for you.

    If you can't measure it, you can't manage it.
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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    Quote Originally Posted by Henris View Post
    Get a proper spec sheet and measure all. Else get the engineering works to do it for you.

    If you can't measure it, you can't manage it.
    Measuring is out at the moment, I only have a Vernier at home, the micrometer is at work.

    I'm just trying to figure out why it failed like it did, because from visual inspection everything looks ok
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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    Surely looks like someone worked on the engine before you and did not tighten the bolts correctly. You have a failed head gasket if I look at things and from what I can see the head will have to be replaced.

    You do not state how many km's on the engine. If more than 300k then I would simply buy a 80k import engine and drop it in place. Cheapest route by a long shot.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    Iíve seen worse...

    Send the cylinder head out for mag particle inspection and maybe overhaul, re-use the bearings, use a ball hone on the cylinders, get rings, gaskets, and welch plugs then put it back together...

    ...or get a serviceable used engine
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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    Quote Originally Posted by AardvarkNV View Post
    Send the cylinder head out for mag particle inspection
    MPI can only be done on ferromagnetic material.
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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    Quote Originally Posted by AardvarkNV View Post
    Iíve seen worse...

    Send the cylinder head out for mag particle inspection and maybe overhaul, re-use the bearings, use a ball hone on the cylinders, get rings, gaskets, and welch plugs then put it back together...

    ...or get a serviceable used engine
    If the head came off without a welsh plug, could there be any doubt that you had serious overheating due to that and 99.9 % sure the head is gone?

    I have gone both routes, rebuild by a proper engineering shop, worked fine but blew again with a leaking pipe. Second try, local second hand, it would still have been going if the guy who installed it did not supply me with a "refurbished" radiator that started leaking like a sieve after 300 km and although compression, etc, were fine, I suspect the damage was done and not too much later, headgasket gone, radiator pipe burst, perished - much more than cracked - head, sleeves damaged, not repairable.

    Just watch out, a lot of engines sold under the 'import' banner are from Colts and if I listened to the guys that are supposed to know, you may need to do some changes, sump, dipstick move are two things I remember, so do not assume a 'just drop in' in such a case.

    You can pick up local engines from anything around R15 000 to R30 000 but of done properly with new clutch, water pipes, etc, you sit at around R50 k and I bought a 'perfect' 2000 Shorty for R80 000 and I have seen cheaper ones. Got R22 000 for the non-running unit, so almost square! Tough decision!

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  9. #8
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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    As much as i like a rwbuild, id get an import motor and call it a day

    Then again, the last import motor i dropped in was a pig and cost me an extra few hours to sort out various issues.

    Hard to say.

    All I can say is, dont cheap out. Do it right, do it proper, the first time!

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  11. #9
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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    The import motors are a serious gamble. Just put 1 into ssanyong Stavic and I have a buggered injector.

    To get the head off, i need to pull the motor. To get the injector out, I need to pull the head.

    If you are looking at an import motor, double your time budget and add half the price of an overhaul.
    Last edited by Henris; 2020/04/03 at 07:00 PM.
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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    Show us the pistons. You will need to get head checked. Pressure test. Skim. Maybe reseat valves. There is a compression issue there. Replace the missing welsh plug. Check that the bores are still in spec then hone

    New gaskets. New rings. Good luck

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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    Ek nie baie clued ip met enhine rebuilds nie, maar as ek n leuke raai moet gee:
    Welch plug verloor.
    Water verloor
    Engine overheated, wat veroorsaak het dat hitte rek en krimp die manifold boute laat los kom het.
    Hitte het jou ringe laat lÍ, nou os kompressie gone.
    Dalk tesame met n geblaaste head gasket tussen combustion en combustion . Kan dalk tussen combustion en water ook wees. Jy sÍ jy sien geen tekens van water in silinders, maar jy sÍ ook welch plug was uit, met geen water in engine..., so daar was nie water om in silinders te lÍ nie.

    Agterste 2 silinders lyk na laer kompressie as voorste 2.


    Hoeveel km op?
    Ek sou sÍ: resleeve. Nuwe pistons en ringe. Laat meet crank op. Polish of sny crank. Nuwe big ends en mains. Oliepomp. Gasket kit.
    Laat toets head.

    Sonder om head of crank te vervang. Seker in vir R9000. (Hang af watter engine, wat is dit?)

    Groot probleem bly maar beskikbaarheid van parte op pajero. Sommige engine parte is net onbekombaar...

    Kaar ja, my leuke opinie uit wat ek hoor en op 2 fotos sien.
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  15. #12
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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    Neem asb fotos van piston skirts ook asb.
    Kyk vir my hoe los sit ringe in pistons

    En dan natuurlik moet boor gemeet word.

    Jy mag lucky wees om net met n ring job verby te kom.

    Crank en bearingslyk of jy kan weg kom met n polish van crank en net selfde nuwe bearing shells.

    So dit kan jou dalk, as head reg is, onder R4000 kos. Ek sou def eers kyk na rebuild.
    Vrywaring: Niks wat ek hier kwyt raak moet hoegenaamd as feite beskou word nie.

  16. #13
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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    Weigh up what a set of pistons, rings and bearings cost and see what your total cost will be, may just be worth doing it?
    You probably going to be keeping the car?

  17. #14
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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    But a full recon may cost more than the car?
    Timing chain,tensioner and guides, water and oil pumps, turbo and recon diesel pump with injectors, thermostat, viscous fan......costs snowball, but I'd personally do the new bearings and new pistons heat does funny things to pistons.

  18. #15
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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    Which engine? 2.8 or 3.2?

    Would it be a possibility that the guys doing the pump and injectors created some more work for thenselves?
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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    I agree with Reenen lost Welsh plug caused the problem. See there is score marks in the sleeve which means an overheated engine.

    Pic`s of the pistons as many said in the thread will give the final clues.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    Can you get a second hand colt engine? May be better option?

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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    Looking at the general condition of the engine as well as the fact that it was run for a long period without coolant:

    I wouldn't rebuild but if I did, I'd buy a new cylinder head. That's around R15k at the current ZAR exchange rate.

    Then new rings at least, hone the cylinders, new bearings, polish the crank..........if you can't do most of this your self, you're in for R40k minimum.

    Get a second hand engine from a REPUTABLE importer. A good company will bench start the engine and run it up to operating temps and check for issues.

    http://www.enginesandmore.co.za/?pag...ngleProduct=51
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  23. #19
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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    Get a second hand engine from a REPUTABLE importer. A good company will bench start the engine and run it up to operating temps and check for issues.

    http://www.enginesandmore.co.za/?pag...ngleProduct=51
    Agree 100%.

  24. #20
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    Default Re: Advice needed from the diesel gurus

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    Looking at the general condition of the engine as well as the fact that it was run for a long period without coolant:

    I wouldn't rebuild but if I did, I'd buy a new cylinder head. That's around R15k at the current ZAR exchange rate.

    Then new rings at least, hone the cylinders, new bearings, polish the crank..........if you can't do most of this your self, you're in for R40k minimum.

    Get a second hand engine from a REPUTABLE importer. A good company will bench start the engine and run it up to operating temps and check for issues.

    http://www.enginesandmore.co.za/?pag...ngleProduct=51
    Hoe bench start die reputable importers n diesel wat n ecu het? Kon nog nie een kry wat dit doen nie.

    Selfs nie eens n petrol wat ecu het, start hulle nie.

    Is jy seker oor die R40k vir n rebuild. Ek verbeel my half mens kan hom rebuild vir minder as dit.
    Vrywaring: Niks wat ek hier kwyt raak moet hoegenaamd as feite beskou word nie.

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