Engines have come a long way! - Page 2





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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois Theron View Post
    I recently had a large group of visitors and decided to rent a minibus. Avis said it would be a Sprinter or similar. 9 seater. When I went to pick it up, it turned out to be a Peugeot Traveller. A huge vehicle. Seats 9 people in comfort and still have luggage space left bigger than any SUV.

    It went very well. light on fuel and quiet and comfortable. My biggest surprise came when I looked at the specs and saw it was a 1.6 l engine. Turbo diesel obviously, but I could not believe my eyes! I don't even want to drive a 1.6 car because the enine is too small!

    I made me realise again that being slightly old school, I have lost a bit of touch with modern engine technology. They have come a long way indeed!
    Sedert 2018 ry ek 'n Citroen C4 1.6Hdi met dieselfde enjin. Staan nou op 212K. Brandstofverbruik is 5.2l/100. Krag is meer as wat ek gebruik. Hierdie enjins is ontwikkel en is in 2004 reeds in gebruik gestel. Daar is mense wat probleme gekry het met turbo's en sommige het probleme gehad met los "injectors". Oor die algemeen kla ek egter nie. Die nuwe modelle Peugeot, Citroen, Ford en Volvo en nog ander gebruik ook dieselfde enjin. Verskil is dat dit nou al by OBD6 ontwikkel is(sover ek weet). Dit bring mee dat die normale werktuigkundige nie in staat is om meer as net die basiese te kan doen nie. As gevolg daarvan het die agente die voordeel om te kan vra wat hulle wil, en. hulle doen net dit. Dit bring mee dat die klient so geskok raak dat hy nooit weer daaraan wil raak nie. Daarby gese, is daar nie baie probleme met normale gebruik nie.
    Last edited by JohnMK; 2020/03/30 at 08:14 AM.

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    I am 77 years old and have had many cars . ( as a farmboy I learned to drive at age 12 )
    I hear many of my counterparts saying " they dont build cars like they used to !!"
    Well I say thank goodness they dont. Those old cars were good for 60,000 miles (100,000 km)
    and then needed a complete engine overhaul. the old 6 volt electrical system was a nightmare
    and the generator usually gave plenty trouble with bushes having to be replaced often.
    As for starting- well more often than not it landed up having to be push started ! and who
    remembers having to push start a car that weighed in excess of 2 tons- especially on a gravel road!

    No please give me the modern car any time. Breaking down in the middle of nowhere? no friends if you
    take your vehicle to the middle of nowhere - then make sure it is well maintained before you leave
    and dont try to murder the vehicle - drive carefully ans considerately and you are unlikely to have problems.

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  5. #23
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    The biggest advancement that has taken place to improve reliability in engines is manufacturing technology. Small tolerances need to be very consistent in a rotating device like an engine if it is to be reliable. Most of the other advances affect fuel efficiency, and these include making the engine breath better, weight reduction and in precisely made fueling systems.

    Even in the 1960's it was quite common to hear of someone who had 'run a bearing', and stories would come out of taking the sump off and using Granpa's leather belt as a replacement big end bearing. I never saw one myself, but I find this more likely on a slow moving axle than on a car engine. But the point is, because it is now possible to make things to such close tolerances, one does not get 'tight' and 'loose' fits easily, oil pressures in bearings are very even and provided you keep the oil clean, a stock standard engine should last a long time. Besides the Disco problem, when do you hear of big ends going?

    Two things have had a negative effect on reliability perceptions. The first was (is?) electronics. Anyone who remembers the 7 Series BMW's from the 70's will know how they pioneered electronics into production cars and when things went wrong, you were buggered. This has improved tremendously, especially in component manufacture, housing and vibration protection. BMW seemed to do their learning on those cars. The other one is turbo-charging. Early turbos were not reliable because of poor manufacture (tolerances) and poor lubrication and cooling. This has come a very long way, but clean air and oil is still vital to these devices.

    I am down to a Land Cruiser 76 V8 for bush work now. The motor is understressed and is well proven. Give it clean fuel, air and oil and it is likely to go for a long time. The rest is good simple tough engineering without frills. In my 50 off years of driving I have found that breakdowns invariably occur when an after market add-on fails or a bolt-on falls off. That, and stressing the thing beyond what is was designed to do. With good maintenance, most makes should give high mileages without problems.

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  7. #24
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    As Rob said electronics in vehicles did it all. New multi speed gearboxes with clever controls make the use of small capacity engines feasible.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

  8. #25
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    The one thing I forgot to mention and seems to be a problem on a lot of the smaller turbo diesels with manual gearboxes. It stalls very easy. You have to spool up the turbo every time on take off otherwise you have a very real chance of stalling. But I found this on other smaller turbo diesels as well
    We can't change the wind but we can set our sails

  9. #26
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    Being used to Patrol 4.2 and 3.0, I would probably stall a 1.6t at every stop....will have to put an L sticker at the back
    2000 Patrol GU 4.2D(onkey) "old-timer" and wise at 848 000 km
    2014 Patrol GU 3.0CRD "teenager" in puberty at 105 000 km
    2007 Echo3 Trailer "the nest" Braked Axle fitted at +50 000 km
    2012 NP300 YD2.5 D/C 2x4 High Rider "platkar" at 120 000 km

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  11. #27
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois Theron View Post
    The one thing I forgot to mention and seems to be a problem on a lot of the smaller turbo diesels with manual gearboxes. It stalls very easy. You have to spool up the turbo every time on take off otherwise you have a very real chance of stalling. But I found this on other smaller turbo diesels as well
    That was the problem with Swambo`s VW bus. Must have stalled it a million times. Think that is where the new multi speed auto boxes comes into play.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

  12. #28
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    Quote Originally Posted by Naes-Landy View Post
    I'm properly impressed with the little 3 banger 999cc petrol turbo in our Ford Fiesta. Sits quite comfortably on the Autobahn at around 140kph without having to floor it.
    My neighbour had a Kuga with the same motor. Very impressive. Did a 300km trip with him recently and would never have said it was 999cc, let alone 3 cylinder. How long it will last though remains to be seen.
    2014 LC76 4.5 V8

  13. #29
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    Yeah it is strange how engine designs can differ. I used to drive a 3 cylinder 1000cc Yaris and a 1300 cc 4 cylinder Yaris, both 2012 models. The 1300 used to stall very easily whereas the 3 cylinder was almost impossible to stall. I guess the 3 cylinder had a heavier flywheel. Actually was a brilliant little car to drive.
    We can't change the wind but we can set our sails

  14. #30
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    They most certainly have come a long way.....

    https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Sturgess_and_Towlson

    and a scale model here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifUdlXBQmuE

    My families connection with Engineering and Steel goes a fair way back. Perhaps explains our faciniation with V engines

    Estee = S T = Sean Towlson

    There is no such thing as inclement weather, only poor selection of clothing.... or Vehicle

    2010 Hummer H3 5.3lt V8, 300 HP, FDL, RDL, CDL, TC and 4:1 Low Range Building for Touring, not Trails

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  15. #31
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois Theron View Post
    Yeah it is strange how engine designs can differ. I used to drive a 3 cylinder 1000cc Yaris and a 1300 cc 4 cylinder Yaris, both 2012 models. The 1300 used to stall very easily whereas the 3 cylinder was almost impossible to stall. I guess the 3 cylinder had a heavier flywheel. Actually was a brilliant little car to drive.
    Weight of rotating assy is a dealbreaker at low down torque. One of the features that make large straight six engines so popular.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

  16. #32
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois Theron View Post
    Yeah it is strange how engine designs can differ. I used to drive a 3 cylinder 1000cc Yaris and a 1300 cc 4 cylinder Yaris, both 2012 models. The 1300 used to stall very easily whereas the 3 cylinder was almost impossible to stall. I guess the 3 cylinder had a heavier flywheel. Actually was a brilliant little car to drive.
    My Lancia Fulvia 1.3S had a very Narrow V4 design, very high revs, a beautifully simplistic design and very compact.
    Estee = S T = Sean Towlson

    There is no such thing as inclement weather, only poor selection of clothing.... or Vehicle

    2010 Hummer H3 5.3lt V8, 300 HP, FDL, RDL, CDL, TC and 4:1 Low Range Building for Touring, not Trails

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  17. #33
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois Theron View Post
    Yeah it is strange how engine designs can differ. I used to drive a 3 cylinder 1000cc Yaris and a 1300 cc 4 cylinder Yaris, both 2012 models. The 1300 used to stall very easily whereas the 3 cylinder was almost impossible to stall. I guess the 3 cylinder had a heavier flywheel. Actually was a brilliant little car to drive.
    the 3 cylinder design is inherently unstable and unbalanced, it's strange that they picked it
    2012 Jeep Sahara Unlimited 3.6 V6
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  18. #34
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    the 3 cylinder design is inherently unstable and unbalanced, it's strange that they picked it
    Just about all manufacturers in the 1000cc market run 3 cylinders. Toyota/Peugeot/Citroen, VW, Ford, Opel, Fiat etc.

    I loved the 3 cylinder in the Yars and Aygo. Lots of fun, powerful and frugal

    VW is now heavily into the 3 cyl engine game, even turbo charged.
    We can't change the wind but we can set our sails

  19. #35
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    Small capacity force fed are not all they are cracked out to be, discussed here on an older thread.

    https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum...-engines/page5
    FJC - Just Cruising

  20. #36
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois Theron View Post
    Just about all manufacturers in the 1000cc market run 3 cylinders. Toyota/Peugeot/Citroen, VW, Ford, Opel, Fiat etc.

    I loved the 3 cylinder in the Yars and Aygo. Lots of fun, powerful and frugal

    VW is now heavily into the 3 cyl engine game, even turbo charged.
    The early Daihatsu Charades were also 3 cylinders if my memory serves me right. Frisky little things they were too, for the day
    Estee = S T = Sean Towlson

    There is no such thing as inclement weather, only poor selection of clothing.... or Vehicle

    2010 Hummer H3 5.3lt V8, 300 HP, FDL, RDL, CDL, TC and 4:1 Low Range Building for Touring, not Trails

    FJ: One day when I am big

    Land Rovers: Done unfortunately

  21. #37
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    As is most Triumph Tiger motorcycle. Very smooth and lots torque on flat curve

  22. #38
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    The early Daihatsu Charades were also 3 cylinders if my memory serves me right. Frisky little things they were too, for the day
    Indeed!
    We can't change the wind but we can set our sails

  23. #39
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    the 3 cylinder design is inherently unstable and unbalanced, it's strange that they picked it
    Nooo I had an old Suzuki 750 water pumper with a radial crank, gave you 3 firing strokes on one revolution at 120 deg apart. Smooth to ride and would kick the backside of a honda 900 bol d'or, 6 love

    Diesel technology have come a loooong way from where I started playing with them. My 1st diesel overhaul was a Peugeot 404 that got washed away by floods. Engineering was done by Sartor Bros in joburg, getting the pump timing and quantities just right was a combination of science and wizardry. it was a reliable donkey, 2500 rpm and you had to start changing. from there things changed, the smaller engines got turbos and started producing much more power and torque. And then came the single rail electronic controlled units, they did not even sound like a diesel anymore and the output was just crazy and as for consumption who in his right mind would think that a v8 4l can give 13km/l and if the throttle is stabbed in anger it would give most normal cars a run for their money, or even better a v12 6l that gives 11km/l and only says uncle to the very big amg mercs but that is 100NM of torque on the wheels and enough electronics to norad to shame

    With some work and a lot of tuning and NOSS a 1.9 tdi can produce more than 1000NM on the wheels and still be a daily ...provided you stay on the bus route

    Petrol has not come as far in my book points do not exist and carburetors can only be repaired and set by mostly guys with grey hair and bad eye sight Electronic injection and ignition have reached the point where failure is more likely in a radiator hose the in the ems coil packs and a crank angle sensor is much cheaper to maintain than points and condenser and injection is much more precise than most carbs can ever be.
    Strip away the fancy electronics and you still have the same old pistons, crank and cam although the metals used have come a long way as has the precision of manufacture. I have been taught to scrape a white metal bearing and use Plastigauge to check bearing clearance. My ring file is somewhere in the workshop having last been used on a ford v4. I still mike every engine we rebuild but it is more to play with toys that cost me a lot of money a long time ago than to really find fault, a modern set of 8 pistons have so little difference in weight that it is negligible.

    I opened Jen's Corsa at 300k because it did not like the fine synthetic oil on the cam. The bore was well within spec as were the bearings. I wanted to change rings and bearings as the engine was open but the workshop manager at Isuzu advised me against it. He worked on those little engines for many years and I decided to use his experience. According to kim there was at least another 300k in that engine before major overhaul would come in to consideration. I can get in to that baby now and drive to Cape town without any issues except the cops and corona

    Modern oils have also a huge contribution to engine and moving part life, there is no comparison between modern synthetic and not so old GTX

    If only I can get the kw/cc of modern engines in to the older V8 engines, just think what one can achieve with a 632 tall block chevvy That '69 Camaro will shunt
    Last edited by hbannink; 2020/04/01 at 03:59 PM.
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  24. #40
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    Default Re: Engines have come a long way!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dungbeetle View Post
    Being used to Patrol 4.2 and 3.0, I would probably stall a 1.6t at every stop....will have to put an L sticker at the back
    The Blonde had a Corola ( the cockroach shape) which I battled to drive as the petrol engine is so not a biggish diesel. Thank heavens it was stolen.
    "Stare, pry, listen, eavesdrop. Die knowing something, you are not here long"
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